For any pitchers or parents of pitchers out there who are being recruited by Old Dominion and may be on the fence or have not made a decision, take a gander at Jerry Meyers' recent draftees from this past June. Just go to http://minorleaguebaseball.com and do a player search on Ryan Bergh, Anthony Shawler, Dexter Carter and Daniel Hudson. The stats for these kids in their rookie seasons speak volumes for what Jerry is doing over there.

Grasscutter,

Just curious: What are the stats "for these kids"?

Lynn

I wasn't very effective at copying and pasting the stats from the MiLB web site, that's why I included it's url. But just to synopsize; Bergh and Shawler had two of the lowest era's for their respective leagues while coming out of the bullpen. Hudson led his league in K's(90)thru 69.2 IP and was 7th in era. Carter was right behind him in K's. Our boy Dexter also led the league in era for starting pitchers and wound up 6-1 in the regular season.

1943 - did I answer your question sufficiently?

You sure can see that these guys are really performing in pro ball, good for them!. But if I were a recruit I would really look at the amount of pitches that starters are throwing per game! A young arm has only so many pitches and some pitchers can start to be abused. At least 10 times a pitcher threw more than 120 pitches and one time a pitcher was at 152 pitches. http://boydsworld.com/data/pitchcount.html
Preview this list and see how many ODU pitchers, you can find.

Balscout,

Interesting site...thanks for sharing. I wish there was a similar data source for HS pitch counts. I've seen more HS coaches burn up young arms in ODU's back yard than I care to remember. I imagine some of them will go on to hit the list you cited if their arms last that long!

balscout - This is a fascinating site. I took a moment to copy the data into a spreadsheet, and then sorted by School, Pitcher, and Date. If the source data is accurate, it does give you a sense as to how different Pitching Coaches use their guys.

For example -- ODU Pitchers account for 10 of the 496 listings (Shawler - 4, Hudson - 5, Bergh - 1). Florida A&M also accounted for 10 such starts, spread across 3 guys. 10 appears to be the most per school.

This is an interesting study. I see 485 games with a pitcher working 120+ pitches as oppossed to 496, but I do not think Meyers butchers his arms. The interesting points to this is that in 73% (354) of these games the 120+ pitch pitcher allowed 5 or fewer runs. They were competing, they were not falling apart. When looking at the Base on Balls vs the K as a cause of these higher pitch counts, it was the K that was more of a factor. In 12% (59) of the 485 games the pitcher surrendered 6+ bases on balls, and in 27% (132) of the 485 games the pitcher punched 9+ K's. Meyers trains his pitchers at a high level, do not think he doesn't. he obviously wants them to decide the outcome of their decisions if possible. The line of how many is too many??? I'd say the North Dakota St kid at 176 in 11.1 innings of relief is pushing it, but he was a senior on a bad team in a game against a rival that was pretty good... He obviously wanted to keep the ball. The SEC crossed the 120+ mark 29 times, the ACC 15 times,the Pac 10 14 times, the Big 12 13 times, and the Big Ten did it 13 times. In the CAA this happened 24 times. Is it ideal, neccessary, or a shame??? Several school of thought out there. I was not there but I would have to wonder if the ODU kids were really laboring and fighting to just muster the energy and strength to get that final out of their outing.

balker -- A typo on my part for the number of games (486 is the count). Please note, I was not trying to make any sort of qualitative judgement on pitchers or Coaches. Too many variable in the mix that nobody outside of the program can know. Could be one school has 2-3 studs who they rely on; another school has 6-7 guys they spread the load across.

This could be a good resource for players & parents looking at programs to ask questions about the philosophy of coaches. How do they prefer to build and use a staff?

Think about how successful Coach K is with Duke Basketball; and how he has a reputation of playing with a shorter bench than many other programs. He'll often rotate 7-8 guys, where other programs may regularly play 8-9.

Grasscutter,

Sorry for the delay. I had to leave town for mom in hospital. Pretty good stats for those "butchered" pitchers! That Shawler is really impressive.
Just a thought- with regards to the pitch count, it seems that the experience on the mound has proven to be very valuable.

Lynn

Do you think there is a poosibility that both Hudson and Shawler's numbers are significantly better in pro ball than in college because they are now on more stricter pitch counts? I know wood bats make a differnce but in the CAA they are not facing lineups of 9 pro hitters. It would be probably safe to say each team has 1-2 pro prospects and some none and yes they are using metal bats, but Shawler had a 5 someting era and Hudson had 4.7 era with a losing record. I think Carter has done OUTSTANDING and that comes from White Sox believing in him and running him out there every 5th day. His stuff should have dominated in college.

It is great to see Dexter doing so well. Everyone knew he had it in him, however, he struggled most of last year and was having a hard time throwing strikes. Not sure about the stats from ODU last year, but because I followed the team, I could only guess that he probably got in just as many games as the other three. I would imagine that if you look at the walks given up, you might find that Dexter walked quite a few. As far as the stricter pitch count, it may be possible that with the shorter season and the same number of games, with only a 28 man roster(I think), ODU coaches have to make pitching decisions that higher levels do not have to make. Hindsight is a luxury that most coaches do not have.
Let's face it, sometimes a losing record for a pitcher means that the bats are not producing!

Hope to see you at the games this spring!

Lynn Metheny

1943,

And let's not forget the all important factor of defense behind a pitcher, in addition to run support when it comes to W's and L's. You and I saw that first hand for the last three years. Look, my only point in starting this thread was to let prospective pitchers know that Jerry Meyers has produced results, not only at ODU but wherever he has been. I get dragged into this pitch count issue every time ODU is mentioned. But Balker made an interesting and very true statement: "They were competing, they were not falling apart." There is a huge difference between a pitcher who is still competing during a high pitch count and one that is struggling physically. Meyers does not leave his pitchers on the mound who may be experiencing the latter. And another point to add is, he doesn't run pitchers out there who have not committed to doing the important behind the scenes work like staying in shape and showing up to compete everyday. Interestingly enough, he uses that word very much over there, compete.

quote:

Originally posted by grasscutter:
Interestingly enough, he uses that word very much over there, compete.

Most college coaches use this word regularly.

Thanks for the update.

quote:

Originally posted by grasscutter:
Thanks for the update.

You are welcome.

rhetorical question here--- how much longer will coach meyers be at odu? my guess is a couple of more years then, an acc or sec address. he has head coaching experience on his resume now and could go on to bigger and better things, IMO.

Grasscutter,

Great to see article of the Hudson/Carter post season performance. They both did extremely well. Don't know how many pitches they threw!!!!! I'm sure somebody took the time to put them on a spread sheet instead of just going to the field and watching the game.
Great speaker lined up for the ODU banquet. See you there!


Lynn

Thank you Ma'am. Maybe the Pilot will pick up on it.

I definately plan on coming to hear Goose also. That's a good get.

quote:

Ryan Bergh, Anthony Shawler, Dexter Carter and Daniel Hudson.

Having seen Hudson pitch in the Southern League, he is certainly on the fast-track, and should remain on the active and 40 man next spring.