For 1st and 3rd situation, i.e. double steal, how do you take care of the 31 pick from the pitcher?

What is your philosophy for using the straight steal, steal and stop, delayed steal or other options?

We teach 3 things for 1st to 3rd, which actually turns into 4 if the pitcher decides to pick.
1) Steal and stop
Runner @ 1st base: Make sure the pitcher goes to the plate run to the 2nd base cut out, stop and get in a rundown.
Runner @ 3rd Base: Read ball past pitcher's ear. If this read is made then the runner advances to the plate unless he gets a back call.

2) Straight Steal
Runner @ 1st base: Run play as a normal play. If pitcher picks the runner needs to run to full speed along the infield grass to 2nd base. If the pitcher uses a 53 move runner needs to freeze until pitcher has thrown over to 1st base. Once runner reads release sprint to 2nd base along the inside edge. (If the pitcher picks we WANT to make the 1st baseman handle a throw over the runner and then have a HS SS make a throw to the plate.)
Runner @ 3rd Base: If pitcher goes to the plate read ball past pitchers ear. If pitcher picks to 1st walk towards home plate and release to home when the 1st baseman throws.

(3) Delay Steal.
Runner @ 1st base: Execute a normal delay steal.
Runner @ 3rd Base: Read ball past pitchers ear.

Plays 1 and 2: This is a straight steal situation and the runner at 1st will go on pitcher's 1st movement, even if the pitcher picks. All runners at 1st are also taught that in the event of 2 outs play 2 and 3 become steal and stop.

4 seasons ago I scrapped my 1st & 3rd Offense which had 6 plays in it and have gone to this. Practice wise we have saved time. My players run 3 plays a lot better than 6 and since I made this move we have scored a run, without fail, every time we have sent a runner to the plate.

This is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks very much for sharing!!

Great stuff socalcoach. I'm going to borrow if you don't mind.

Here's another thought:

Use a run and bunt approach. We straight steal second, and if we can get the bunt down (try 1st base side, but 3rd fine too), use it for 3 reasons: 1. We read safety squeeze with the runner at third. 2. May get the runner on 1st to go 1st to third. 3. With all the movement (MI covering bag on steal, 1st basemen/3rd basemen crashing or fielding the bunt, got a chance of getting an easy single, now you have a 1st and 3rd again, plus a run, and a coach trying to figure out "now what?"

bballdad175, thank you very much. Coach 2709 feel free to use it all you want. If either of you guys want anything else let me know. Turnin 2, I have used this play before bunt I have used it in the following manner. Hitter drag bunting, runner at 1st reading angle down, and the runner at 3rd looking to release to home plate on a throw to 1st base. I am more comfortable with this angle simply because of the double play opportunity that is there if the ball is bunted in the air and you have the runner headed to 2nd base.

"2) Straight Steal
Runner @ 1st base: Run play as a normal play. If pitcher picks the runner needs to run to full speed along the infield grass to 2nd base. If the pitcher uses a 53 move runner needs to freeze until pitcher has thrown over to 1st base. Once runner reads release sprint to 2nd base along the inside edge. (If the pitcher picks we WANT to make the 1st baseman handle a throw over the runner and then have a HS SS make a throw to the plate.)
Runner @ 3rd Base: If pitcher goes to the plate read ball past pitchers ear. If pitcher picks to 1st walk towards home plate and release to home when the 1st baseman throws."

Are you talking about breaking on the throw from 1st to pitcher?

No, I am talking about breaking on the throw from the 1st baseman to the SS covering 2nd base.

I love the simplicity of running just three plays. What do you do though when the infield runs a short stop/ 2nd base crash and you are reading throw past the pitchers ear? What should the runner at third base do?

Our runners at 3rd are taught that they can not release until they read ball past pitcher's ear. This means that they can not leave until they visible see the ball pass his ear or they read a throw from the catcher indicating that it will obviously pass his ear. The SS and 2nd baseman are the coaching staff's responsibility. If they are going to crash and cut the ball we are yelling back and the runners are taught that the 3rd base coach yelling back trumps his read. The next question would be how do we know if they are bluffing or are actually cutting the ball. This is where scouting comes in. On our opposing pitching chart we have areas to write down 1st & 3rd plays so we know who runs a cut and who does not run a cut.

we squeez and drag in this situation alot just for the sole reason as to make people prepare for it and it always catches people off guard. we also run a fake squeeze steal that has yet to be defended. we practice it weekly in practice and we have executed it 15 times in the last two seasons (62 games). It very rarely draws a throw and more times than not if it does then no one is covering.

quote:

Originally posted by socalhscoach:


2) Straight Steal
Runner @ 1st base: Run play as a normal play. If pitcher picks the runner needs to run to full speed along the infield grass to 2nd base. If the pitcher uses a 53 move runner needs to freeze until pitcher has thrown over to 1st base. Once runner reads release sprint to 2nd base along the inside edge. (If the pitcher picks we WANT to make the 1st baseman handle a throw over the runner and then have a HS SS make a throw to the plate.)
Runner @ 3rd Base: If pitcher goes to the plate read ball past pitchers ear. If pitcher picks to 1st walk towards home plate and release to home when the 1st baseman throws.

I put this one in a few years ago. Sounds like we're doing the same thing, but my coaching points are a little different. Runner @ 1st gets a big lead (we want the pick) and goes on 1st movement. Runner @ 3rd goes when the ball leaves the 1B's hand as you said. We don't send the runner @ 3rd if the pitch is delivered. Due to our big lead and going on 1st movement, we feel like the worst that can happen is we end up with runners on 2nd and 3rd at that point.

We teach player at third to read it past pitcher also..It is my job at third to give the back call if I see a cut man coming. Sometimes people just run cut every play so we break on catchers release on occasion..Risky, but if you have to have a run it works.. We safety and steal behind it or fake the squeeze 75% of the time however.

quote:

Originally posted by socalhscoach:
We teach 3 things for 1st to 3rd, which actually turns into 4 if the pitcher decides to pick.
1) Steal and stop
Runner @ 1st base: Make sure the pitcher goes to the plate run to the 2nd base cut out, stop and get in a rundown.
Runner @ 3rd Base: Read ball past pitcher's ear. If this read is made then the runner advances to the plate unless he gets a back call.

We put something in a few years ago that eliminates this option on offense.
As soon as the runner breaks early, the first baseman yells,” STEP OFF!"
The pitcher steps off, he will fake a throw to the third baseman crashing towards the bag. This freezes the runner/has him going back to third. Also if the runner is cheating at 3rd and is off to far, go ahead and get the out.
The second baseman sprints in behind the runner between 1st and 2nd, who is trying to get in the rundown, the SS will position himself in at the bag, in case the runner continues to run toward second base.
In MOST cases, after the fake has been executed toward 3rd and the pitcher turns to see the runner stopped half way between 1st and 2nd, he will throw the ball right in front of the runner’s nose to the second baseman who quickly applies the tag and possibly gets the man at third who has wondered to far from the bag. The throw from the pitcher to the second baseman really freezes that runner

Goodie, I am kind of confused. I never in my posting said anything about the runner leaving 1st base early and we don't even teach that.

Sorry Coach,
For some reason I had it in my head the runner leaving early. My fought.
You can adapt what we do and have the catcher throw it back to the pitcher and do the same as above.

No worries. You right in your comment about a pitcher cut. In that event I will take runners at 2nd and 3rd. We spend a lot of pre season time scouting those teams that run those plays. I personally think that the 1st & 3rd Offense and Defense is becoming a lost art.

You are right!

The way we defend all 1st and 3rds is to run the 53 move and "invite" the runner to steal 2nd. The pitcher walks off the mound slightly towards 3rd and has direct orders that he ONLY throws to the ss AT THE BAG, RIGHT WHEN THE RUNNER ARRIVES AT 2ND. All the while he's looking right at the runner on 3rd freezing him. If the guy makes it safely, then so be it.Nothing hurt at that point. But the only way we can make a play at home is if the ss catches the ball before the guy on 3rd gets any lead or momentum.Runner on 3rd can't get either if the pitcher is 20 feet away with the ball. We throw out the guy at 2nd about half the time. We RARELY give up a run. My problem with the MI cut, is risk vs reward: Risk of a bad throw is presnt 2 times if the runner go's home yet how often do you get an out? And You're "giving" the runner 2nd base. Just my opinion. Fun topic.

Anticipate the 3rd to 1st move & use it against the defense. [ You can set the defense up to use the 3rd to 1st move with the right kind of lead at 1st]The runner at 3rd breaks as soon as the pitcher turns to throw to 1st. The runner at 1st starts to 2nd & as soon as the pitcher turns to pick at 3rd & starts back to 1st as soon as the pitcher turns to 1st after feighting to 3B. The runner at 1st must be far enough off 1B that the pitcher has a play only if he throws immediately. He should not be so far from 1B that the pitcher can run at him. Executed properly the runner from 3B will be safe based on the time & distance factor.[ He is running 70 feet or less with momentum & the defense has two exchanges & has to cover 150+ feet. Try it. Time it out.

JW