Many on here told me early in the spring season that I had a lot to learn, and there WERE RIGHT! I was very disciplined and tough during the season, and I still feel that is the best way to coach, but I also understand that is also the best way to have players and parents hate you. I am the head coach of our summer ball team, and I am trying to be more tactful, and trying to see if I can get the same results, focus, and work-ethic out of my players if I try a different approach.

Now, I said all of that to run this by you guys. We played two five innings games today, and our cathcer "dogged it" behind the plate. He was lazy, an had an attitude of "I don't want to be here." During the spring season I would have chewed him out during the game. I realized that would not have helped this situation, and if I would have taken him out, that is what he would have wanted me to do. After the games, when I talked to my players in left field, I discussed without saying any names, how if a player isn't working hard and has a bad attitude, I notice it. I talked about even if I do not say anything I notice it, and how I keep in constant contact with the high school head coach and my fellow assistants who do not coach summer ball. Now this kind of effort is not acceptable in our baseball program. This is a kid who has been great during our first six summer games, but I knew he had this side to him, even though I had not seen it yet. We are not practicing tomorrow, but we will on Thursday. I am thinking about asking this player to come to practice early, and meet me in my office. I think I am going to talk to him about how catching is one of the most important positions on the field, and I have to know the catcher is going to give me his all. I am also going to tell him that if I can't depend on him behind the plate, I can't depend on him on the mound as a pitcher (because he likes to pitch). I am going to tell him we will not have this conversation again, and I will put him in a corner outfield slot, to be platooned with our other outfielders, if I can't depend on him behind the plate. I will do all this in a conversation style, yet stern voice. This is a different approach from the spring when I would have just chewed him upside down. I think during the spring I was like a bull in a china shop sometimes, and that rubbed some people the wrong way. By the way, in the spring I would have also just ran this players butt of, but I do not know if this kid would respond to that. He is kind of a different kid. What do you guys think?

I'd guess he caught all the games during the high school season and now doing 10 behind the plate with pitchers that throw from one side of the box to the other in the dirt while all the others "platoon" in the outfield.

Did the thought ever cross your nimble mind that he might just be tired?

He may just have a case of the "this ain't the school year so I don't have to work as hard-itis". I have seen that before. There is so much pressure during the school year with studies, sports and practices. Baseball, while it should have a firm disciplined approach, must be fun as well. Ask him if he's having fun and if he really wants to do this all summer. If he does, then there are certain expectations. There will always be a summer attitude with youth. They often don't get serious until they see their future before their eyes.

FO could be right.

Don't you have more than one catcher?

While I completely understand that there are many ways to coach young men, Nicholas, I have to say I'm disappointed in your approach. Often times, I see coaches who don't know how to communicate with young players and who resort to the 'marine drill instructor' mode because they don't know what else to do. There are other ways to get more out of your players, if you care to do so, and if it matters to you what type of young men they are when they leave your program. If you want to have them start acting like responsible and mature young adults, it helps to treat them as such. Talk to them as you'd talk to another adult, to an equal. Let them know what is expected and give them the freedom to deliver. If they don't, you have many ways of dealing with it. I use what I consider to be the most effective of all, it's called playing time. If a kid isn't giving a good effort, I don't get mad at him, I just reduce his playing time until he gives the effort that he's capable of giving.


I don't coach HS ball, only summer baseball. I tell the boys straight up that when they get to college, they're going to be expected to do everything on their own without being told by their coaches. Be there on time, get yourself geared up to practice, get out and get warmed up and ready to begin on time without your coaches telling you what to do, and when to do it. That is what college coaches are going to expect, so start learning it now, not later. It's called being responsible and dependable. I also ask the players to be honest with me, and if they have an issue that will affect their play, to communicate and we'll deal with it. It is important for them to know that they can talk to you about problems or issues without being penalized or compromised. You'll find that your players will give you much more effort if they respect you and you inspire them, rather than if they fear you and don't respect you. Respect cannot be demanded, it should be earned. Yes, a certain amount is owed by younger people at the beginning, but you'll decide if it is warranted long term, or not. They DO NOT owe you respect long term if you've shown you're not worthy of it.

Would you want to play for someone who treats their players the way you do? If so, keep on doing it. If not, think about why you're doing it, and how you could do it better. A simple test would be to honestly ask yourself if you treat other adults at work and in social settings the way you treat these boys. If not, why not? Would the other adults tolerate your approach or tell you to stick it? If they'd tell you to stick it, perhaps you should consider treating your players more like adults and expecting them to act more mature on their end. If you think the kids are going to take advantage of you, you've forgotten who is running the show. Give them a chance to get on the same page that you're on. If they don't want to, and have made it clear by their actions that they don't want to be at the level you're seeking, ask them to leave and to find another program that'll better fit what they're looking for.

You say in your initial comments "during the spring season I would have chewed him out during the game." Would you have bothered to ask him why he wasn't showing the energy needed, or would you have just chewed him out without bothering to find out if there was a reason. Perhaps the kid was sick, but playing anyway. Perhaps he got no sleep the night before and had no energy. Perhaps he has a big problem away from the field that is affecting his play on the field. Perhaps he just doesn't give a darn. IF you don't bother to find out the reason behind the sub-standard performance, how can you expect to improve it? Chewing him out isn't going to solve the problem, even if it's nothing more than a bad attitude. Take a kid with a bad attitude and chew him out, and all you're likely to do is make it worse, make him loathe you, lessen the respect you get and you didn't do a darn thing to make anyting better.

I've had kids with problems similar to what you're describing. By talking to them like I would to another adult, I'v often found out the reason and addressed that issue, whatever it was. If it was just laziness, it's as simple as putting them on the bench for a while and letting someone else have their PT. If they want to play, they'll step it up. If they don't really want to play, most often they'll take care of that situation for you.

If you want your players to be the best they can be and give the team everyting they have to offer, they need to be positively coached and led. They'll give you, as well as themselves and teammates, far more if they know you care about them and their success, than if you're viewed as nothing more than a jerk and bully who can act that way because you're the coach and they can't go play somewhere else. If you wouldn't tolerate the guy you see in the mirror talking to you that way, why do you do it?

If you aspire to be the best coach and MENTOR that you can be, most of the rest of the deal will take care of itself. You'll be amazed at the results you can get from these guys if they know you care about them, and about excellence..... and lead by example.

What age is your catcher? My son is a freshman who just turned fifteen. Recently he's competed very hard for Horse's Behind of the Month. It's a phase. Right now he's smarter than everyone. We'll survive it. He did get more time on the bench than he's accustomed to this past weekend. It should cure him for next weekend.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
Right now he's smarter than everyone.

And will likely remain so for several years...

06catchersdad, nice post!

Nicholas, I'd ask you to reread your post. I think the answer for what you need to do AND some good insights into the success you'll have as a coach are contained in that post. Read it as if you don't know who you are!

Some thoughts:

• You are the coach. Why reference the high school coaching staff at all? You have diluted your authority in doing so.
• If the kid needs a break from catching, give him one. Tell him that you noticed that he didn't have as much intensity etc. and you understand that he is tired. Have him DH or something else. Look him in the eyes when you tell him. Read him. He'll let you know what's in his heart.
• Having a kid come in early is a special time when you can build bridges. It can also be a time when you can burn them. Catchers catch bullpens, they often do infield outfield as nothing more than glorified shaggers. COACH him! Believe me, as one who for 2 summers had to wear the tools of ignorance BECAUSE NO ONE ELSE WOULD, he'll appreciate it.
• Nicholas, chewing the team out for what a teammate does will only be tolerated by the team for so long. Then, they resent it. Yes, I've done it. However, after the team broke, your catcher should have been in another meeting if only to say that you noticed "things" and you want to address them. Read the player and decide if it should be then or later. Believe me, the team will "GET IT!"
• If you are going to "kick him in the butt," you'd better start with a whole bunch of "pats on the back." You mentioned that he has caught the first 6 games and did well. TELL HIM THAT! Never finish with a negative!
• Finally, statements like, "we'll never have this conversation again," do little good and are not coaching IMO. That will be taken as a threat and WILL cut off communication. Why do that?

Nicholas, coaching is comprised of so many different aspects. Your personality will cement your abilities to be an effective coach. IMO, you will have arrived when you can make a simple statement of displeasure and it will bother a player. If you can do that, then you will know that they spend a lot of time trying to be the player you want them to be.

I referenced the high school coaching staff because I am on the high school coaching staff, and we are all on the same page. The high school coaches who are not at the games, know everything that is happening on the field. The young man has just been moved to the catcher position, so he may very well be physically feeling the effects of a demanding position. When I mentioned chewing out players and all, I was referencing how I would have handled the situation in the spring. I am trying to improve as a coach, and am trying to see if I can get the same intensity and results with a different coaching style. I want to say again that the young man may have very well been feeling the effects of the catching position, but that is not excuse for lazy, non-motivated play. Good baseball players compete even when they are not feeling at the top of their game. I do understand the player is young, and still learning, but you also have to understand, this is a young man who has a reputation as being difficult, so I was afraid something would come up sooner or later. I will try to talk to him as an adult, and let him no his lack of effort is not acceptable, and will not be tolerated, but I will do it in more of a Tony Dungy style, as opposed to Bill Parcells.

As has already been mentioned, the first thing you did to do is listen. Ask him what was going on.

Nicholas, you now mention that he's new to the position. That's important to know. You're asking this kid to move to the single most difficult position to play well on the field, the one that takes a special mind-set to do well. Don't be surprised if he doesn't do well at first, it takes a lot of time to grow into catching. If you climb up this kid's rear end, you run the risk of killing his love for the position before he even figures out if he likes it or not. Since he's new behind the plate, give him some time. Remind him that catching is the most difficult thing to do well defensively in baseball and the reason you chose him is that you think he might be the right guy for that job. You can tell him that his level of effort has to improve without chewing him out. Be matter of fact, just tell him what you need from him in a conversational tone of voice, not confrontational. Give him the opportunity to live up to your expectations after you've clearly set out what those expectations are. Then, if he doesn't put forth the effort, find out if you've put him in a position that he doesn't like to play. There's nothing wrong with not wanting to catch, most guys don't like playing back there. For those who do, though, there is nothing like catching.

As for the references about "we'll never have this conversation again", I agree with Coach B25. I had one of those last weekend. It was reserved for a parent who called me at home to tell me he was unhappy that his all-league son sat in the second game of approximately 45 or so we'll play this summer. I did tell that dad that we weren't going to have that conversation again, and if he wanted one I'd just hand him back his money, apologize for failing to meet his high expectations and wish them well with whichever team he chose to take his son to in the future. THAT is a time when it is OK to have one of those discussions. Parents aren't players, and I'm not coaching them. Generally, you're only going to do it with a player if you're prepared to drop him from your team. You're laying down an ultimatum, and had better be prepared to back it up.

Im just old school I guess. But we dont have players that dont hustle. We dont have players with bad attitudes. If they dont hustle we cut them. If they have a bad attitude we cut them. When players realize that hustle and a good attitude are a given and not something that you have to teach them once they make the team they either hustle and have a good attitude or they get cut. If they develop a bad attitude or dont hustle once they make the team they dont play. If they continue to have a bad attitude we dismiss them from the team.

Quite frankly if a kid dogs it he does not deserve to be on the team muchless playing. If he has a bad attitude then why is he on the team? Im sure many will disagree with me thats fine it will not be the first time or the last. But I can not remember the last time I have had to tell a kid to hustle. It would be like reminding a kid to breathe. Hey your not roofing a house or primeing tobacco. Your playing baseball. If you can not get excited about playing baseball you dont need to be playing in the first place.

Go ahead and jump on me now thats fine. But it works for us. We dont have to deal with these kind of issues because the players know it will never be tolerate in any way , shape or fashion.

Coach May


I am with you---once the kids realize that you as the coach ain't fooling around they get in line or they walk---what you get is a team that wants "it"

Up until this particular game he had worked hard behind the dish, but as I said, I think he is now starting to deail with the demanding physical aspect of the position because he is a new catcher. I understand a sore arm, and body, but that is no excuse for lack of effort. He made himself, and his team look bad. I will talk with him about it like an adult. He played jv ball in the spring, and we had a jv exclusive coach (not in 09), and this is his first pink-slip so to speak in our program, so we will talk to him and see how he reacts.

quote:

If they dont hustle we cut them. If they have a bad attitude we cut them. When players realize that hustle and a good attitude are a given and not something that you have to teach them once they make the team they either hustle and have a good attitude or they get cut. If they develop a bad attitude or dont hustle once they make the team they dont play. If they continue to have a bad attitude we dismiss them from the team.

Some programs don't have the wealth and/or depth of talent of other programs. It's easier to fix the problem than move down to the next level of ability. Obviously you don't cater to a kid being a problem. But it can be fixed.

Please let us know how your talk goes.

Nic...

When I was 22 years old (20 years ago), I began coaching a team of 17-18 year olds in summer ball. I had just completed a relatively decent collegiate career and was tapped by a local man who wanted to start a travel team here in central MD. I felt that due to the close proximity in age, I needed to be hard on the guys so they didn't take advantage or treat me like their big brother. And my two assistant coaches took there queues from me, so they were equally as hard.

It took me about 6 years to discover I had wasted 6 years of talent. What I discovered was that I had crossed the line from intensity to insanity. I expected guys to do everything right all the time, and when they didn't I levied punitive discipline to get them in line. It flat out didn't work. During my 7th year, I decided that a more direct, respectful approach was warranted. I explained how I expected honesty, intensity and hard work from them, and in return, I and my coaching staff would be there to support and assist them in their development. During that season, I discovered that the formula for developing a winning ball club was in making everyone feel like part of the team. Why did our "A" catcher need to catch every game? In those first few seasons, our "A" catcher caught 95% of the innings of a 65 game schedule. Talk about burned out!!!

I'm not telling you to change. The bottom line is that you have made a commitment to coach a ball club, probably with no pay, and that should be commended. You have the ability to surround yourself with your type of players. But you seem sincere in wanting to learn from folks who have more experience. I don't know if you have children of your own, but ask yourself "how would I want my kid to be coached?" Of course you want them to work hard, learn and play with intensity. And you want a coach who will "COACH" them, teach them and care for them along the way. The worst thing you can do is try and be a player's buddy. But it is OK to let your players see the human side of you. If you show them you care about them on their bad days, as much as you do on their good days, you will see they will come ready to play everyday. And on those days they don't seem up to snuff, remember you aren't at your best everyday either (or are you?).

HS and summer players need to learn early on that Hustle and a good attitude do not take a day off, Never-Ever.

They have know idea who is watching??
EH

quote:

Originally posted by theEH:
HS and summer players need to learn early on that Hustle and a good attitude do not take a day off, Never-Ever.

They have know idea who is watching??
EH

I agree. If the player doesn't want to play, they need to make a decision not to be there. If you don't love the game, don't disrespect it by giving a half effort. There are plenty other players that would want to play.

larrythompson, nice post!

Nicholas, in lieu of other responses, and the fact that I was thinking about the kid himself, perhaps you should just throw him off the team.

I've never had to take the "my way or the highway" approach. I've always been able to get players to want to play for me. How? I've always coached by the pat them on the back and kick them in the butt but always make sure you pat them on the back a lot more than kick them in the butt. Yes, the kick them in the butt was always a bad one. I do know this, I sure didn't coach through fear. Of course, you can do it either way.

Let's face it, we are all giving advice based upon ourselves and what has worked for us. None of our personalities are the same. What works for one will not work for another. Anyone that ever read an article about my teams would have read that I had the best kids. They would do anything I asked without complaint. Should any deviate, a simple little talk did the trick. PLUS A SENSE OF THE TEAM NOT PUTTING UP WITH INDIVIDUALS. Well, each to their own. JMHO!