I am just wondering how many coaches here are firm beleivers in just having BP in the cages with front toss, soft toss, and T-work with little to live pitching.

Do you yall believe players need live pitching to be prepared for a game situation or do you believe the reps on the front toss, soft toss and t-work is all that is needed.

The downside to live BP (or srimmaging) is that it ties up a lot of time and field. Depending on your facility, you have to ask how much you want to tie up... Last year a I set up an area (because we have plenty of open spaces) for "just live" stuff. I gotta admit i didn't use it as much as I thought I would; I guess I felt like we were getting more benefit out of our standard BP routines and break down drills on the real field.
My cages are not long enough for live pitching, but i must admit I am not a fan of live pitching vs. hitters in a cage.

I think it is critical to get guys reps off live arms. The problem is once the games start, there are very few live arms left on the roster to accomplish this and before games start, it is too cold to get outside to do this as often as needed. What I end up doing then is getting some guys who haven't thrown in a week on the hill to throw BP.

If there are no live arms left, I jump out there and throw shorter, but mix up and create game like counts and circumstances.

I feel I was lucky and learned this lesson early in my Coaching career. As an assistant my first year I had a HS head Coach that never had live hitting in practice the whole season. This Coach took his team to State for 9 years in a row and had won it 7 of the 9. This was 22 years ago BTW. His opinion was that Live hitting was a waste of valuable time. We had stations all over the field. He was a real innovator, but I remember being worried about not hitting live.

I now still do some cage live, but very minimal..... I don't like being worried .

I'm generally an advocate of having them hit balls in every conceivable way. Unfortunately, live pitching from the mound is probably the least accessable of all methods because it requires pitchers to be realistic. And, the supply of pitchers is limited. So, like Coach Labeots, I'll pitch from shorter distance behind a screen. You can approximate most location, action and speed they'll be seeing in a game. If you feel they need speed from mound distance, use a batting machine. If you have good stations and coaches who can spot problems, you'll be fine.

The only time you really need your hitter face live pitching from your team is during preseason. Do some intersquad scrimmages and you are working the pitchers and hitters. Of course when we do this I usually have a group in the cage hitting short cage, another group doing drills and another group doing GB / FB on the empty field beside our game field. I have three to four hitters in a group facing the pitcher and we go live here. I have guys in position playing live defense too

It's a nightmare to try and schedule and put everyone in a group but it works really well and you get a lot accomplished.

Once we start season our hitting is done in cages and drills. Every once in a while I will let them take BP on the field. This is what I hate doing more than anything because the guys try to turn it into homerun derby. We have a pay lake behind our LF fence so it they hit one we have lost a ball. I would rather stay in the cages / drills and use the field for defense drills.

If your hitting mechanics are good then your timing will fall into place pretty quickly.

I believe Bulldog19 has seen some of the below when they have shown up to play us. The double cage work is typical of what we do every day.

Ok, so before I get going, I understand we are blessed with a little more than most. To do this you must also have enough coaches who want to coach and bust butt because they are looking at 2 and 3 stations at once. Here is what we do and we do it often. We have essentially 3 cages so we set up some 14 stations where each hitter has a “plan” to work on. We’ve decided this plan from video etc. On the field, once we have infield done, we set up some screens for protection and the infielders set up fielding stations and we set up an outfield station. We now have two “shaggers” in the outfield who are typically comprised of a rotation of JV Players. Everyone else is hitting, pitching or fielding in stations. Now, we have our pitching staff get prepared to throw to hitters. I wonder when people hit, they don’t think about pitching practice for pitchers. Why is always hitting practice? It can be both. (In the following, I am coaching the pitcher, catcher and hitter.) We have our first 3-4 hitters up to the plate (hitting within one of our two rolling backstops). The ones not hitting are either hitting fungoes, or doing drill work in our other rolling backstop. Typically working on bunting. #1 pitcher comes up to the mound. #2 pitcher started his warm up some 5-8 minutes after #1. They have a staggered start to enable the #2 to get to the field mound ready to step in and throw. #1 Throws six outs. #2 should be there by now. #1 sits down. #3 starts in the bullpen to warmup. #2 throws 6 outs. (Always coach’s judgment but geared so that they get their work in.) #1 back to the mound. Throws 3 outs. Off to do his other pitching work. #4 starts warming up. #2 now throws 3 outs. #3 should now be there and #4 is getting ready. After hitters 1,2,3,4 have hit off of 1 & 2, they sprint to the cages and the bottom of the lineup heads to the plate. We keep rotating this way until we are out of pitching.

Now to double cages. Two rolling backstops are set up side by side. We have portable mounds as well and so, the coaches throw from these. We also have a huge screen set up to attach to the L screens. We alternate throwing one coach and then the other. I throw all pitches. My assistant can bring the heat. Hitters now rotate between hitting, fielding, and base running (all running off of me). They all have a plan when we start and so, they all know where to go. Well this is a very brief example of how we do our hitting. We say every day that in our program, if you aren’t paying attention, you can die. It gets hectic at times doing this and last year we had our first kid hit and hurt. Ball hit him in the face while he was supposed to be shagging. This is a very efficient practice and the kids love it. No one stands around with the exception of the 2 shaggers and typically they are run so much that they have to switch out often. It is a sight of beauty to see it. JMHO!

Guys, I didn't even read CoachB25's post, but I could probably tell you most of what's in there. They do A LOT of hitting when an opponent shows up for an afternoon game.


We've got a portable backstop and have had it for 6 years or so. I think I've seen our coach use it 4-5 times total. CoachB is constantly using theirs.

I think live hitting is important. I also think the cage work, soft-toss drills, etc are important. But the hitter must be able to transfer the technique that is worked on so much in drills into live hitting. If you don't do live hitting in practice, it's a whole heck of a lot harder to do it right in a game.

We'd set up in the caged in our gym. We had a portable mound and the caged was just long enough. I hated that! I always got stuck catching in the cage and I had to fight the net the entire time.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bulldog 19:


I think live hitting is important. I also think the cage work, soft-toss drills, etc are important. But the hitter must be able to transfer the technique that is worked on so much in drills into live hitting. If you don't do live hitting in practice, it's a whole heck of a lot harder to do it right in a game.

QUOTE]

Add one observation, during my coaching years involved in the youth baseball. I experinenced some very strange things, two of my big size players can kill the coach pitch and look like Barry Bond in the cage, but they can not hit a thing during the real game, they can't catch any above average fastball and curve-ball will fool them everytime. They ended up being cut at 12 & 13 respectively. Any coach have these kind of experiences?

quote:

.......two of my big size players can kill the coach pitch and look like Barry Bond in the cage, but they can not hit a thing during the real game, they can't catch any above average fastball and curve-ball will fool them everytime.

What does this tell you?

quote:

Originally posted by coachbwww:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bulldog 19:


I think live hitting is important. I also think the cage work, soft-toss drills, etc are important. But the hitter must be able to transfer the technique that is worked on so much in drills into live hitting. If you don't do live hitting in practice, it's a whole heck of a lot harder to do it right in a game.

QUOTE]

Add one observation, during my coaching years involved in the youth baseball. I experinenced some very strange things, two of my big size players can kill the coach pitch and look like Barry Bond in the cage, but they can not hit a thing during the real game, they can't catch any above average fastball and curve-ball will fool them everytime. They ended up being cut at 12 & 13 respectively. Any coach have these kind of experiences?

Coachwww, I don't think your idea of "coach pitch" and what I throw are the same. I don't lob the ball in there and my assistant has a 90+ heater but slows down so he can throw more rounds. He brings the heat in from around 45-50 feet and I throw real curves, fastball, slider and change. Also, this batting practice, and again, Bulldog19 has seen it, isn't simply throwing in mass and get the heck out. I spin balls telling them what they are getting, and then, I mix it up. Once in a while, they take the pitch and tell me what it was when they see it. I have had the luxury of a couple of very dedicated assistant coaches who could throw beside me. Therefore, they could rotate out. I've never had a sore arm and so, I can throw this way each day of our season. I've been very blessed.

I am big on live arm hitting. We have stations set up where we work on certain things like hitting backside etc. But I would say 25% of our cuts are live arm cuts in the cage. And the rest are live arm cuts on the field. We have four coaches and we throw from the L screen everyday. The last 90 minutes of every practice is live arm bp on the field.

Now we have two types of bp that we take. One is where we just hit. The defense makes plays and the player hits with no count and the hitter hits the ball where its pitched. The other bp is with counts and situational. We also throw cb's and change ups.

A typical practice for us is stretch and throw. Defense posistion play. And then hit. We alternate day to day from posistion play to bunt d bunt o / first and third and cut plays. Up to the first game of the season alot of our bp is off our pitchers. Once the season starts the coaches throw the bp everyday.

Drills are great. But the bottom line to me is seeing the baseball out of the hand and working on hitting live arm pitching. The other side of this is we work on core strength all year long. We work on core strength during the hs season as well.

One thing we are going to do and that is hit live pitching every practice. We spend at least 60% of our practice time each year swinging the bat live arm. Guys get ground balls off the hitters and fly balls off the hitters. To me there is no substitute for hitting live arm pitching. And there is no substitute for core strength.

It has paid off for us big time over the years. Again we do some front toss and we do some backside toss. We let guys hit off t's if they like to do it but Im not a big fan. But we are going to hit live. Because that is what we are going to have to do in a game.

I'm big on drills during the preseason and phase into live arm near the end.

Once we get into the season it's mostly coach BP and I have the luxury of having a former minor league pitcher who can throw BP. He mixes up stuff which helps us save our arms so we don't need them to throw.

During the season we will take about one day a week and have a drill day just to reinforce good mechanics. But if we are in a hot streak we sort of let it ride because I don't want to upset the rythm they have.

I believe live tracking is the biggest asset to pitcher's batting practice. If the hitter's front foot is not set before a pitch is thrown it will not matter how good a hitter's mechanics are.

Soft toss and short front screen are imperitive for the development of all hitters. Treat pitcher's bp as a learning tool for the pitcher, hitter and catcher. Especially in an indoor cage situation.

As a former Major League Player, all swing mechanics work was done with tee work, front underhand soft toss and front overhand soft toss at a farther distance. Most of our time hitting off pitchers was strictly for tracking purposes.If your front foot was down before the pitcher released the ball your head should be still allowing your eyes to track the ball on a consistant plain. I never liked hitting off a pitcher with an L screen in front of him.

Just some thoughts, there are severel ways to help a hitter with his timing.

Spike,
We would like to hear your helps for timing.

Yes, please Spike, I too would like to hear your tips. That seems to be the final piece to my son's hitting.

Coach May,
I am really interested in improving our team's core strength. What type of program do you do? How do you get this in during the season? I think this is very important, but can't find a program I like.

quote:

I think this is very important, but can't find a program I like.

Core strength is as important as great swing technique......This will do it........

http://mycorevolution.com/

everyday I would take several hundred underhand and front soft toss balls. I would make sure my front foot was down and my hands were in my launch position before the ball was released from our hitting coaches's hand. This in my opinion is the essence of hitting.

We would break down every at bat from the previous game on film. If your front foot was not down before the the ball left the pitcher's hand you were beat and your body would then try to catch up forcing many other problems. There is no correct stance or hand postion that will ensure a hitter's success however one variable that remained constant no matter who was hitting was the front foot down and hands in the launch postion before the pitch was thrown.
I see alot of hitters excel in soft toss and coaches bp only to struggle in a game because of this. amatuers and pros alike.

I just attended our H.S. coaching clinic that discussed the use of charting during batting practice. A coach would give all hitters a specific number of pitches, then a coach or student manager would record their hits on a chart. They would keep track of hits, pop outs, weak ground outs, etc. And then come up with a percentage to post in the locker room.
I would like to implement this charting system this year for my team, but I would like to see if anyone has tried it, what kind of success they have had and what kind of chart they used.
It seems worthwhile to give hitters a specific purpose while taking BP instead of just taking cuts.
Thoughts?