What is happening to the fundamentals?

Kids do not know how to run the bases and they have excellent foot speed?

They have no comprehension as to what certain pitch counts mean?

What is a cut off man?

I could go on-- and I am talking HS juniors and seniors not LL kids


Are we failing these kids with all the youth travel teams and lack of basic fundamentals ? Are the young players too hung up on 12 and under All American teams adn fancy tournament trophies?


It is becoming scary and then you ask why there are so many foreign players in the BIGS---perhaps it is because the foreign players are solidly grounded and work harder

TRhit,

I have to agree. My experience is only with the LL end, but I have watched many HS and college games and wonder the same thing. I also see the change in the world our kids are growing up in as a big factor. I'm not that old, but when I was a kid I could still ride my bike to the local ball park and play until the street lights came on without my parents sending out the authorities to find me. I think they are still able to do this is many other countries and still do. Our sterilized facilities and all the private coaching you can get can't do for you what time spent in the field learning first hand will. Call me old fashioned.

On the LL side I think it's sad when winning becomes so important that only the "best" kids get the attention they all deserve. When less advanced youth are placed in situations where they simply wont get in the way and if they learn something great. More specifically when more advanced players are put in a position where it's though they will be most likely to help the team win. They may gain from the experience of playing that position, but is anyone in this situation actually learning anything about the game and how it is actually played. I'll save you the long winded example here unless you are interested. I know this is not where you were trying to go with this, but I needed to vent. Thanks.

There are more ways to win than just putting the best team together and playing kids in the positions they are best in. Teach them what to do and how to do it in all situations. Then sit back and watch a new light shine in a place it wasn't expected. Teach them the game and get out of the way. Teach and reinforce the fundamentals and let the cream rise. It will. And they will all have more fun learning the way the game is meant to be played.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Are we failing these kids with all the youth travel teams and lack of basic fundamentals ?

From my experience, LL Inc. and other rec leagues are where the fundamentals are not being taught. Select ball has drawn the better coaches and that is where the fundamentals are being taught.

Not only is the lack of fundamentals being displayed in HS, but also in college. Especially defensive fundamentals.

Sad.

quote:

From my experience, LL Inc. and other rec leagues are where the fundamentals are not being taught. Select ball has drawn the better coaches and that is where the fundamentals are being taught

I have found our experience was very different. Our kids were taught fundamentals right from Rookie ball. They had excellent training and every pre season the Jays sent players to teach fundamentals. If a player was interested regardless of what level they could attend these sessions.
Latter on as the kids got into AAA ball or Elite ball there was constant reinforcement of the fundamentals. I did see lots of teams that showed lack of training. Pitchers standing on the mound instead of breking to do their cuts and covers. Part of what I look for in a pitcher is what he does wnen the ball is put in play. Does he have to think about where he should go. Does he hang his head if he gives up a hit or does he break and go instinctively ? Some of the college games I have seen show lack of fundamentals.
Parents should make sure their sons get proper training at an early age if they are serious about the game.

Let me say one thing first. Bless you coaches that are teaching fundamentals with travel teams. It has been my 32 plus years experience that most travel coaches expect you to show up knowing some, since you are a talented player. They plan weekend tournaments and don't spend much time on the game. I have witnessed bad fundamentals at top notch travel tournaments with teams from all over the country.
As a high school coach we spent countless hours on fundamentals and even the best players showed up lacking them.
Then some bone head travel coach would try teaching them, or unteaching them when they had the players, only to have them come back and we would have to go over the same stuff again and again.
I know the game is about preparation and repetition, but I do believe that it is rare for travel coaches to be teaching much. I did say rare, but I'd imagine some of the fine coaches here are the exception and are pretty good teachers.
I had mentioned here that a few college coaches had gotten new players that didn't have good fundamentals, so I'm sure there are high school coaches missing the boat also.

Perhaps it varies by region.

Here, many (certainly not all) of the coaches left in rec leagues scarcely know which end of the bat to hold. And select teams, at least through HS ages, still hold practices.

Of course, with the proliferation of select teams, more poor coaches will be present just by the sheer numbers.

I have to say our coaches and organizations were very good at providing expert training. Last spring I was going by the main ball diamond for the city teams and they had 5-6 minor league players showing very young players how to swing a bat etc. It was their annual kick off for the rec and travel leagues. They had the hot dogs and all the great ball park stuff going on. Their main goal was to generate interest in the very young kids hoping that they could rebuild the dwindling numbers. The kids were having a great time. They played hgames and had fun all weekend. I was impressed at the effort.
When my son started 11 years ago they always held preseason workouts with college coaches and MLB personel. Our coaches always took the attitude you can't practice enough.
At the Elite level the training was kicked up several notches. 3-4 hours practices all year long. I was impressed with the effort to put the best instruction for the players. There was only one year I was not happy about and that was due to lack of discpline during the practice. The training was still there but there were a couple of funny guys who disrupted the flow.
When you are charging 5-10 K a year you had better provide top quality instruction.

It is realy bigger and bigger the porcentage of baseball coaches that didn't played baseball.
The lack of baseball fundamentals in our kids is the product of coaching deficiency and coaching inexperience. As parents we need to find baseball academies where teaching is more important that winning, and bring the kids to colleges baseball campaments.

Racab has a good point, coaching deficiancy, and inexperience, plus the heavy travel ball circut are just some of the reasons for the lack of fundamentals shown by young players today.

However, Baseball academies and college camps are expensive, not everyone can afford to spend $45/hr or $450+. I know I can't at this time.

When/if my soon to be 8 year old plays this fall, he will do so with a wood bat (i've got a few), and I will teach him to the best of my ability the fundamentals and rules of the game.

Most of the kids who have the best fundamentals were taught by Dad or someone else in the family! Unfortunately all dads can't provide this.

I think besides fundamentals not being taught there is also an overall lack of knowledge of the game. I know there are exceptions, my kids for instance, but how many kids watch a game. My 2 sons and I love to watch games, be it on TV, or out in the frsh air. While we are watching these games we are talking about different things going on. I'm sure a lot of you on here do the same thing with your kids just as I'm sure a lot of you are instructing your kids in the fundamentals. But look at how many people are on this forum and compare it to how many kids are playing ball. We are just a small percentage.

Here is my laundry list of the cause of lack of fundamentals.

1. Poor coaches at the lower levels. Regardless of travel teams or little league or rec leagues or whoever we have a society of adults who think the world hinges on a 10 - 12 year old regular season games that mean nothing to nobody except these great coaches.

2. Poor coaches at the upper levels. Some guys do it for a check and some guys do it because they want a team for their son to be showcased when they can't field a ground ball. Schools hire guys to coach the team because they are buddies.

3. Parents have unrealistic expectations for their children. Some parents think that their son is the greatest thing in the world and is guaranteed to play MLB. If they get a good coach and the coach doesn't make their son the all star they undermine the coach.

4. Kids lack: work ethic, respect for each other / the game / adults, and effort. Kids are handed everything - parents will buy $120 glove, $350 bat, $80 bat bag, $120 cleats, $50 batting gloves and the kid does nothing to help earn it. If they don't like it or lose it they get it replaced quickly. Look at the way the kids interact with each other and adults - they don't respect anything. That comes from being handed everything without earning it.

5. Technology keeps kids inside. With the video game play stuff and internet and the billion channels on TV they never get outside. Kids cannot create games anymore because they never had to. Someone somewhere gave them the things needed to do whatever.

6. Educational system is failing all kids in everything. We have taken failure out of kids lives. Kids know that if they do poorly on a test then they will be given chances (make up work, make up classes, extra credit etc...) to succeed. It goes back to work ethic - they are handed everything and don't earn it. No Child Left Behind is a great idea but what if you have kids for whatever reasons don't want to learn? It is a law that kids are given an education but what if they create problems and don't allow others to learn? I could actually spend hours on this one.

7. The "Has to be fun" effect is destroying fundamentals. Coaches have to come up with creative situations to make everything fun or it's not worth doing. At some point the focus has to be on success (really not wins but setting goals and achieving them) and not just fun. Several weeks ago there was a thread about fun vs. work ethic and someone posted mature fun vs. immature fun. I think it was one of the best things I have ever read. Society has moved to immature fun because that is what they see kids doing most and therefore it is right.

8. Worried about hurting feels so they take away failure. We are so worried about hurting kids feelings that we can't hold them to a higher standard. I have a masters degree in secondary school counseling and in one class they said teachers should not use red ink to grade papers because it is associated with failure and being wrong. I point out that the reason for that is because the student has failed and has got questions wrong. The response to that was if they see red then they feel bad. My response was that they should feel bad because they had a duty and responsibility to do well and they didn't. Others want to take away competition because there can only be one winner. In another class they called it the NCAA effect. You start out with every college team and there is only one "winner" left and everyone else is a loser. I pointed out that some teams season goal is just to make the tournament - they know they are not going to win it. Does that make them a failure? The teacher said deep down they know they did not win and they feel bad. I said they should feel bad because losing stinks. A good coach does not measure success in wins and losses but in getting a team to work together and pushing the envelope to what they can do. I wish George Mason had made their run earlier because they are the epitome of my argument.

10. Kids and parents do not take responsiblity for their actions. When a kid strikes out it wasn't his fault it was the umpires fault. If a kid doesn't get a scholarship to a D-I school it is the coaches fault. Society wants to play the blame game.

Look at what Billy Packer is going through right now. He uses the word *** in an interview talking about getting tired. If you look up the word it is an old British word meaning to tire out or work hard. That is how he meant it and not as a derogatory remark toward homosexuals. Now everyone is up in arms saying he should have used a different word - WHY? He used a word correctly and if people get offended over that they are way too sensitive.

Now all kids don't fall into all of those categories but that is my $1 worth of opinion.

I'll buy that for $1!!

Well said coach.

Thanks Glove Man.

quote:

From my experience, LL Inc. and other rec leagues are where the fundamentals are not being taught. Select ball has drawn the better coaches and that is where the fundamentals are being taught

This is a big misconception. Since 2001, our league, a sanctioned participant in Little League, has produced numerous active collegiate (7 D1) and soon to be collegiate players. Our high school (same district as the our LL) has made it to at least the semi-finals 4 out of the last 6 yrs, with the other 2 bringing home state championships. Our middle school (also in the same district) has gone 35-1 the last 2 yrs. The coaches and many parents attribute this success to the foundation that our little league has established and praises our LL coaches for teaching fundamentals first.
That's not to say that travel ball doesn't "breed" better talent. It should for what you pay (at least here in CT). I have also known players to pay and sit. Fundamentals has to do with whose teaching them. Not all travel team coaches teach fundamentals, as some of them have different agendas (winning). It's also very easy to say that LL coaches are "failing", mainly because about 1 million kids from Maine to NJ play LL. The number of kids who play (or can afford to play) travel ball is significantly less.
Also, one thing that I particularly stress to my team is that they can't be afraid to fail. The sooner kids realize that it's o.k. to strike out, to make an error or to walk someone the easier it's going to be for them to learn from that. I am a huge advocate for the "no babying" approach. As I believe babying "little Johny" teaches the kid nothing. But at the same time a coach can't cut a kid down for striking out. Failing is a part of baseball period.

Coach2709,

Well said, I agree 100%.

quote:

Originally posted by Pat H:

quote:

From my experience, LL Inc. and other rec leagues are where the fundamentals are not being taught. Select ball has drawn the better coaches and that is where the fundamentals are being taught

This is a big misconception. ...

It may not be true in your area. But it is ABSOLUTELY true here. No misconception at all. I have personally observed it.

Count me amongst those decrying the lack of fundamentals in the game.

Coach2709 has certainly well covered a broad range of contributory reasons, although I think the reason the fine points of the fundamentals aren't taught is pretty simple:

Right now, despite all the steroid "scandal", baseball, far above all else, values offense, specifically home runs.

If the guy behind you in the order is going to go yard, you don't need to play small ball, or steal, or even run the bases well. (Never mind that he'll probably only hit one once every few games, let alone ABs).

How many times have you heard the fans (and the coach, for crying out loud) congratulate an OFer for their "great game' because they hit a home run, when their inability to track down a fly ball or hit the cutoff man allowed the opposition to score? (Leo Durocher: "I don't like them guys who drive in two runs and let in three." Has anybody heard any current coach express that sentiment?)

Last year's National League MVP was chosen pretty much because he hit the most hr's. The Most Valuable Player hit a home run once every 2.8 games, but he struck out 1.2 times Per Game, and he hit more than a hundred points below average with RISP and two outs. Compare this to Pujols, who only hit a hr every 3.3 games....the SAME frequency with which he struck out, and who hit around .450 with RISP and two outs (100 points above average!) I know which stats I consider Most Valuable, but young players see the kudos to the long ball.

As the players progress, basic deficiencies (hard hands, disinclination to work the count, not knowing where the play is before the ball is hit, not hitting behind the runner, not lining up the cutoff, all manner of basrunning blunders, etc) aren't addressed as often as they should be. I do believe the coaches think a player should arrive at their travel team, hs, or college team with these skills. But when they see that they haven't got them...I'm thinking some drills are in order; not sure what those coaches are thinking.

When my son was in hs, I had the opportunity to coach at the local D1 fall games (they did team scrimmages, no practice time). I told my team, gathered from several hs, that because of the limited time, we were going to work on two things that I had seen lacking on the field: communication and baserunning. The guys were very enthusiastic --- and absolute sponges for information, because none of their coaches had ever addressed these two basic components of the game.

Coach2709, for the most part you are correct! Of course not every kid is like that but I see it out there a lot too. That's one of the very reasons we picked the team that my son is on. The coach treats the players as players. There is winning and losing and you don't want to lose. Winning and losing is not always the final score either.

As for fundamentals, that's another reason my son is on this team. As a travel/club/elite team the entire emphasis is fundamentals. Practice 2 - 4 times a week, a league game during the week and tournaments on the weekend. 100's of ground balls, 100's of fly balls, practicing cuts, double cuts, base running, etc., etc., etc. And it shows in the games. Each player knows what to do each play. Very, very few errors. This intensity pays off. Not just for the team but for each individual player. They, as individuals know and understand success and failure. They know you have to work for success, they know they don't want to fail. They know they don't want to fail but failing is part of success. You can't know one without the other. I have to say it's been a fantastic experience so far this year with this team.

I've seen may kids and many teams that are part of your observation, TR, and they all tie into your observations, too, Coach2709. I am trying to make sure my kids are not them. That's all we can do - take responsibility for our own.