I coach at the varsity level on Long Island. Our county (Nassau) is most likely re-aligning it's Conferences with a new ability based format. This format has already been put to use in several other sports. (Softball Hoops and S****r to name a few)

Our coaches association has spoken out strongly against ability based conferences. Most members feel that the standard enrollment based system worked just fine. AA big schools, A- midsize, B-small C and D really small)But it looks like it is going to happen in '08. Many different factors would go into ranking and seeding to determine where teams are placed from year to year, for example past records (5 yrs back?) returning starters/pitchers, JV record, strength of sched etc.

Im on the fence. Ability grouped Conferences would make things more competitive. Especially since my program is in the bottom half of the county. Within a given Conference (AA for example with 22 teams) you could have a top division with the 7 strongest teams, a middle division with 8 middle of the road teams and a bottom division with 7 weaker teams. Obviously more playoff teams will come from the top divisions than the weaker ones. In softball all of the top division teams make the post-season, about half of the mid division, and only the winner of the bottom div (this bottom div team had to win %90 of their games).

If you are still reading.... my question is, have any of you heard of this format in baseball or any other sports across the country? What do you think of it? If you need more of an explanation, i would be glad to answer (if i can)... post your comments/questions and concerns!

That is the strangest thing I have ever read.

Who decides? How do they decide? That is just crazy.

They are penalizing smaller schools with great programs and benefitting large schools that don't care.

A well coached, tough, disciplined team would still get beat by a larger school that can just bring in the horses. It looks like a way to hand championships to larger schools and penalizing smaller schools who have success. I would run very far away from that system.

It seems more PC'ish than realistic. If they want it to be fair and safe, just take away the score and hand out trophy's to everyone like they do in LL farm ball.

As you can tell, I think it is a horrible idea. I wish you luck if you have to use it.

donut... you may have misunderstood one thing.... we may be going to ability grouping WITHIN each conference. the county will still be divided into conferences based on size, and then within each conference we will create divisions based on ability.

as for who decides, i will use the basketball format to answer that question. each coach had to fill out a packet of information, for example

A- Record, last season and overall last five seasons
B- strength of schedule (record of teams played)
c- assess your programs own strengths and weaknesses
d- number of returing starters
e- evaluate returning bench players
f- JV record last season
g- choose which division you think you belong (this counts for 10% of the overall formula)

These are just some of the factors weighed before a team is placed in a division.

Some parts of California may do some type of ability grouping.

Texas does not.

Gator,
I thought you meant state wide.
Shew!!

Within a conference I can see it working, but I still wouldn't like it much if my team was in the lower level.

But then again, you could use it as an underdog whip when you played the big boys.

But I still don't like it. Too much chance of sandbagging if you are relying on the coaches.

Please keep us informed on how it really works. I am very curious to see the results. I might even change my mind. Maybe.

Sandbagging was an issue with softball when they changed over. Not on the field but in the meeting rooms when determining where a team is placed. After the real powerhouse teams the next 5 or six teams would rather be placed into the second division for a better shot at winning the division.

Here are the MAJOR concerns of many coaches...

1) Will a pretty good team who plays in a really tough division benefit from getting their *** kicked and finishing under .500? how will that affect them when playoffs roll around.
2) STATS... coaches have really expressed concern when it comes to their top players numbers... will it affect recruiting? these teams wont have those cupcake series on the leaugue schedule to pad numbers anymore.
3) playing time... again, it is those cupcake series when a good team gets to empty the bench.

These are all fair concerns... but however...
Here is why some programs would welcome the change...

1) Certain schools would benefit b/c based on enrollment they never have a chance to compete. Nassau County (Long Island) is a very diverse area. Some towns have high minority populations and some have 100% white populations. Several schools have struggling baseball programs b/c as you know the African-American communities have seen a decline in the popularity of baseball in recent years.

2)By ability grouping teams within each Conference, you are created leagues that are made up of similar programs. A school like mine (large minority population) will be placed in a lower division with simialr schools or programs that are rebuilding.

3) The top programs will still compete in the tougher divisions, but now you are allowing perenial losing programs an opportunity to compete in an easier league.

4) top programs are rewarded with more playoff spots at the end of the season, while lower division see far fewer playoff spots (but the chance is still there)

Gator,
I can understand the reasoning behind the coaches concerns. We hear them every year from the SEC during college football season. They have legit reasons to be concerned.

I can also understand reasons 3 and 4 why teams would benefit.

I do not agree with :

quote:

1) Certain schools would benefit b/c based on enrollment they never have a chance to compete. Nassau County (Long Island) is a very diverse area. Some towns have high minority populations and some have 100% white populations. Several schools have struggling baseball programs b/c as you know the African-American communities have seen a decline in the popularity of baseball in recent years.

Don't these teams have a corresponding advantage in other sports that have an increase in participation?
IMO it evens things out.

2)By ability grouping teams within each Conference, you are created leagues that are made up of similar programs. A school like mine (large minority population) will be placed in a lower division with simialr schools or programs that are rebuilding.

Sounds a little too close to segregation for my taste. You get your butts handed to you in one sport and hand it back to them in another.

Sounds fair to me.

Once again, let us know how it works out. I am very curious.

you are very correct. the teams that struggle in baseball are the perennial powerhouses in basketball. As for segregation i disagree, NYC and the surrounding suburbs are very diverse.