What are some of your different rotations that you use during batting practice? For example, we often put a runner at 1st and the batter has to move him around the bases before swinging away. So first pitch, he bunts him to 2nd. Second pitch, the batter hits to right side, runner moves to 3rd. Third pitch, the batter has to hit fly ball for sac fly. Then the hitter gets 10 swings. If he fails on one of his earlier attempts, then he loses a swing.

Our BP Rotations goes in this manner.
Round 1: Sac Bunts (2 to each side)
Round 2: Hit & Run X 4
Round 3: Right Side X 4
Round 4: Scoring Ground Ball X 4
Round 5: Scoring Fly Ball X 4
Round 6: Squeeze X 1
Round 7: Sting (base hit/line Drive)

I have always kept it very simple once we get on the field for bp. We sac three times putting it down where its pitched. Outside take it right side , inside take it left leftside etc. Then we give then a predetermined amount of swings focusing on hitting the baseball where it is pitched.

Usually we give them around 20 swings. We adjust where we are throwing the pitches based on what they are doing with the ones we have thrown. If they are hooking around outside pitches then we focus on working them away and talk to them about going the other way if the pitch is outside. But the focus is on hitting the pitch that they get only if its a strike and hitting it where it is pitched to them.

We do have BP rounds where we focus on hit and run and hit with counts as well.

What I have found for me is when you give them set numbers of pitches and predetermine for them what to do with the pitch it does not relate to game like situations. If you say the first 5 go backside. Then they are predetermining they are going to go backside. What happens when the pitch is inside? In a game your focus should be on hitting the pitch where it is pitched. So we try to focus our bp as close to game like situations as possible.

Just some thoughts.

quote:

What I have found for me is when you give them set numbers of pitches and predetermine for them what to do with the pitch it does not relate to game like situations. If you say the first 5 go backside. Then they are predetermining they are going to go backside. What happens when the pitch is inside?

If the pitch is inside they take because we are looking to drive the ball to the big part of the field. We spend a lot of time talking about plate geography and looking for a specific strike and not just a strike. So when we have runners at 2nd base and we are looking to move that runner over we talk to the players about middle away. We expect them to take inside in practice and we expect them to take inside in the game. When we look to "move the runner over" we are NOT trying to ground out to the 2nd baseman. We are looking to drive the ball up the middle.

socal,
I prefer Coach May's approach. With less than 2 strikes in almost every situation the approach should be to get a pitch you can handle and hit it hard. If a hitter can turn on an inside pitch, then great. I haven't seen a situation yet where a double down the line off an inside pitch wasn't a good thing and that includes the hit and run. Allright, it isn't a good thing when the suicide squeeze has been called.

Why take away a pitch you can handle? Focus on moving runners over if the pitch allows it when you have 2 strikes.

While the type of BP rounds you've noted has a place in limited amounts, IMO, it will hurt a team if done on a regular basis to the exclusion of a simple focus on hitting line drives. You've got roughly 1/7th of your BP allocated to doing the most important thing.

I've seen that type of rotation employed with little success and some pretty good hitters messed up by it. That type of rotation may be effective for a team full of speedsters with no real hitters and the only team I've seen like that got that way because the coach built the team around success in that type of BP rotation. Against good pitching and defense the results weren't pretty.

Wander,
If you take away swings for failure then the players who need the swings the most will get the fewest swings. You might want to have some other reward for success, such as not having to do as much fieldwork and not take away swings for failure. If anything make them keep at it until they succeed (up to a point).

Other than that I think you've got a pretty good balance there.

No problem coach if it works for you thats fine. We dont work on taking strikes. We work on hitting strikes. What happens in a game when you are worked inside? Do you only attack the inside pitch with 2 strikes?

I have never heard a kid say he was trying to ground out to the 2b. He was just trying to hit the ball up the middle or to the right side with a runner on second and no outs. But if a pitcher is going to throw inside and a strike I prefer we look to hammer this pitch and look to move the runner to home plate instead of 3b.

I would think that taking strikes on the inside in the hopes you get a strike on the outside later would put your hitters pitchers counts in a risp situation. But again if it works for you its all good.

If moving the runner is so important that your willing to take strikes in an attempt to move him over I would just sac him over.

CADad good point. The hitters that need the most work should get the most work. Taking swings away is not something I would be in favor of. Give them more and let them leave the field with some feeling of success.

We look to drive all pitches on all parts of the plate. However when you are talking about executing with a runner on 2nd base we a narrowing are strike zone to middle away. We are narrowing the zone in an attempt to avoid making an out that is highly unproductive. This concept, to me, is no different than coaches telling their players to shrink the zone on 3-1. Nobody, IMO, wants hitters swinging at a 3-1 pitch that is low and away so hitting coaches tell them to shrink their zone and be selective. I am not advocating that you do not attack inside fastballs. I am simply advocating that in this situation we are shrinking are zone and looking away.

Coach great post. Many coaches "At the least the ones that have a clue" will pitch inside in the following situation "Runner on 2nd no outs " in an attempt in get a gb to the left side that will not allow the runner to advance to 3b with no outs. Especially in a close game late in the game.

Now how effectively you can do that will depend on the stuff your pitcher has , how well he can command that stuff , how good the hitter is. Sometimes a rolled over pitch that is located on the outside creates the results your looking for after you have planted the fastball seed on the inside part of the plate. You get them thinking fastball by coming in off the plate and then go soft away for instance. So I think your teaching points here are very good for what its worth.

All I am saying is we teach hit the ball where its pitched and look to drive the risp home by ripping the ball that is inside to the pull side or driving the ball backside on the pitch away, In other words hit the baseball where its pitched and look to drive it. If we want to move the runner and in this aforementioned situation and thats our goal - sac him over.

I am not disagreeing with you at all. Its just a difference in philosophy imo. With a runner on 2b and no outs you can look to move him to 3b or you can look to drive him in with 3 chances to do it. When a hitter is focused on moving a runner and looking middle away and shrinking the zone to focus on doing that he is also giving up what may be his best zone to drive a ball. Or he may be focusing on his best zone depending on the batter and the level of the pitching. You make some very good points. Thanks

What we like to do is incorporate both the execution skills and pitch recognition skills, based on the count. For example one round might be 3 hit and runs and 2 with a 0-0 count. The execution differs round to round as well as the count. Our last round is always a well-hit round where they simply focus on driving the baseball.

Guys, something I found interesting at this link: http://tangotiger.net/retroshe...years_since1993.html

From 1993 to 2007, in MLB, a runner on second with no outs scored 61.4% of the time. A runner on third with one out scored 66.3% of the time. That's not a huge difference either way. Of course, that's the best hitters on the planet, and I would guess the rates are different in high school and also very volatile depending on your talent. But I just found it interesting that at the MLB level, talking about these two situations specifically, there wasn't a lot of difference.

To me there are also situations where you may prefer one situation over the other as a coach. For example, late in a tie game or one run game, especially if at home, you may prefer the runner at third with one out. There are lots of ways to score that guy, especially at the high school level where freaky things seem to happen and there are few routine plays. So, I'm not taking sides, just offering a little food for thought.

I seem to remember in general that anytime before the 7th inning sacrificing doesn't have a positive return because you are reducing the chance of a big inning.

That spread sheet seems to contradict one of the "moneyball" principles, the higher probability of scoring a run from 1st w/ 0 outs vs from 2nd w/ 1 out. The stats in the chart you linked show a .397 chance from 1st w/ 0 outs and a .417 from 2nd w/ 1 out. I no longer have "moneyball" but I'm I wrong or mischaracterizing its concepts. Is it not the basis of the logic of not sac bunting?

quote:

Originally posted by Flintoide:
That spread sheet seems to contradict one of the "moneyball" principles, the higher probability of scoring a run from 1st w/ 0 outs vs from 2nd w/ 1 out. The stats in the chart you linked show a .397 chance from 1st w/ 0 outs and a .417 from 2nd w/ 1 out. I no longer have "moneyball" but I'm I wrong or mischaracterizing its concepts. Is it not the basis of the logic of not sac bunting?

Flint,

This chart is only about the expectation that a particular runner will score. So, a runner on third with 1 out will score 66.3% of the time. I think Moneyball talked more about total runs expectation.

For example, with a runner on first and no outs, that particular runner will score 39.7% of the time. However, the idea is that a runner on 1st and no outs more often leads to multiple runs scored than does runner on 2nd with one out. I don't have the particular numbers to back that up, but that was the idea. In general, you're going to prefer the big inning, but in specific situations you're looking to score one run and the big inning isn't as important. Even most stats guys who dislike the stolen base and sacrifice bunt will agree that there are specific situations where both are good risks.

Thanks for the info!

Wander: my bp varies greatly depending what part of the season we are in.
For the first 2 weeks we are trying to get a lot of cuts on field, in the cages and off the tees. I hope that we aren't getting a lot of 'bad' cuts but basically we are throwing meat and crushing the ball.
After about 2 weeks I now have some feedback as to where different hitters are in their progress. Drills are then formulated and used each day in the cages by different groups (of course on rainy days you'll have different things that will get worked on, ie they can get a lot of bunting in).

My typical bp will consist of a group getting 8-6-4 cuts. Then after we go thru that we regroup for games where we focus on counts, situational hitting, and bunts.

One thing I try to really get right is getting your groups so that you've got good hitters spread out so the guys fielding are seeing good hitting. If you put all your best hitters together they are standing next to the cage swinging a bat while shots are being hit ... you can help yourself by having your best guys fielding shots. (this is true for me anyway because i have one field so i've got some young guys with the varsity guys)

good comments guys; keep 'em coming. I'm here to learn

My first 2 rounds are almost always the following (and include base runners - either from the same group or as a separate group)

1st round: bunt (1st to 2nd), bunt (2nd to 3rd), squeeze, 5 cuts
2nd round: hit and run, move the runner from 2nd to 3rd, score the runner from 3rd with less than 2 outs, 5 cuts.

Rounds 3+ can be any number of things: at bats, base hit rounds, 2 strike cuts, etc, etc.

What position players always take BP first? (Used to be a "law" in old school baseball)

quote:

Originally posted by S. Abrams:
What position players always take BP first?

I always make sure I have groups that are comprised of both IF and OF (and depending on how many C I have, I'll put one of them in each group for the days I want to have them catch BP). That way, we are sure to have the field covered with the groups that are on defense. What we do defensively during BP is just as important as what we do at the plate and on the base paths. IF's have to be taking fungo and balls live off the bat. MOST IMPORTANTLY, the outfielders must be playing balls live off the bat. You can hit them fungo all you want during individual defense, but there is NO substitute for them to balls coming off a live bat.