I think all the coaches who take time to post here are special people who really care about what they do.

Still haven’t received an answer to this question…

quote:

Have you ever sac bunted in the last inning with an 8 run lead? And... Have you ever sac bunted ever with an 8 run lead?

Not making any judgments as to right or wrong… I understand the reasons someone might want to end a game early at times. Not asking if it would bother you if someone else did it against you, I’m just curious as to whether any of the coaches who post here can remember ever putting the bunt on with an eight run lead.

I believe bunting, hitting and running, and stealing are situational things that are only meant for certain points in a game. I have never and would never sac. bunt with an 8 run lead late in the game. I have to much respect for the game of baseball and my opponent.

I will say coach 2709's situation is a tough one as far as his arms go. I do like his idea of getting his bench some work. I know Bobby Cox is big on keeping his bench guys active (although they do play 162 games). I have been suprised at the many different baseball philosophies on this board. It has been interesting to read the ideas of other solid baseball men.

PG

With a 8 run lead and we are swinging the sticks well why sacrifice ?-- We trust that our team is in a groove with the bats and why give up an out---let the kids hit away---with an 8 run lead why worry about hitting into a DP--we don't think that we will --we think positive and that the batter will get a hit--if he doesn't , well, that is baseball

PG,

to answer your question I have to say no to both situations. I want the mercy rule if we can get it because it does save me some arms but I am not going to bunt for it. I am of the same thinking as TR that if we have that big of a lead it's usually because we are swinging the bat well.

I don't bunt that much to begin with unless we are needing a run. I teach to swing the bat and hit the ball hard at any opportunity. We only bunt late in games that are close and we have to have a run or need an insurance run.

PG, yes I've had a sac bunt be put down with an 8 run lead AND in the 5th inning. There were runners on 1st and 2nd and we were in a tournament. We advanced the runners and the next hitter ended the game. We has something to the effect of 9 games in 6 days and so, I had to think about pitching. Did I make it a habit? NO! I wouldn't have been mad at a coach for doing it to us. However, if they had the 10 run lead and were bunting for more then I probably would have. Every one knows what the spring is like. You might have to play every night and then play a double header on the weekend or play in a tournament. JMHO!

with mercy rule comes stuff like this. It is what it is but one thing I know it is not baseball.

I agree Will. I am only 27, but I guess I was taught the game by men who believed in old school baseball. I still do not know what I would do in a situation if I needed to protect arms, but didn't want to rub it in.

You use the rules that you are playing under---if that includes a mercy rule you play to end the game as rapidly as is possible--especially in a tournament where you need to save arms

The mercy rule was put in for a reason. In our example from the other night, we did call off the dogs, but were not going to embarrass the other team by bunting back to the pitcher, striking out on purpose, etc. The final score was 22-1. What would have happened if we had played 7 full innings instead of 5? That game would have been a lot uglier.

Another situation that may be of interest happened to us on Saturday. We fall down 10-2 in the 4th. The team we were playing is not a team that uses the bunt a lot or steals a lot of bases, so it was hard for me to tell what the other coach's philosophy on the situation was, but I would have had no problem with them bunting, stealing etc. We ended up losing 13-12 and left the tying run on third base. A saying that I use a lot with our team is "you can't take anything for granted." We didn't take for granted that the game was over and it clearly wasn't at 10-2. I wouldn't expect us to take for granted that a game was over if we were up 10-2 in the 4th either.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
You use the rules that you are playing under---if that includes a mercy rule you play to end the game as rapidly as is possible--especially in a tournament where you need to save arms

I agree. We were leading 14-1 with temperatures at 46 degrees, wind blowing 30-40 mph (anyone know what the wind chill factors would be?) when a coach decided to bring in the cuts (they were told they would not get any playing time) and the reserves. They couldn't buy an out, letting the opposing team score 12 runs, 11 of those unearned. I think one inning lasted an hour.

quote:

Originally posted by Nicholas25:
I agree Will. I am only 27, but I guess I was taught the game by men who believed in old school baseball. I still do not know what I would do in a situation if I needed to protect arms, but didn't want to rub it in.

Nicholas25, I'm troubled by this sense or suggestion that because one doesn't agree with you, they are either ignorant or wasn't brought up on "OLD SCHOOL BASEBALL." When I played, back in the day, I don't remember any short game rule. About as "old school" as you could get is to lay a butt kicking on the other team. These new gentler and kinder rules are a product of today. In the cases where I've tried to end the game, the most repeated comment from the other team's coach was, "thanks!" Again, I'd suggest that instead of worrying about what the other team was going to do or doing, I'd concentrate my effort making sure that my team was coached to the best of my abilities. In the end, that is what counts not the score IF your intent is to better these players. Making a score 10 to nothing and disagreeing with Will here, isn't unsportsmanlike. What is is continuting to prolong that game when a team is beaten both physically and mentally. Of couse I'd suggest to you that things will change when someday you're the one making all of the decisions. BTW, if you don't like getting shortgamed, you'd better have a plan and expect anything BECAUSE if you do this for long, it'll happen to you again.

Here is an interesting sidebar regarding how some coaches think

Last fall we were in a tournamentb that used the "mercy rule"---we mercied the opponent but we still had one more arm we wanted throw what with all the scouts in attendance--we asked the opposing coach if he would mind batting one more inning so this kid could throw---his answer was a very terse " No way--we are out of here now !" We were not asking to bat again just wanting to give the arm some exposure

Conversely a few years back in Jupiter we were the visitors and lost 2-0 in agreat game---we asked the opposing coach if they would bat one more time so we could have a kid throw for the scouts----his answer was gentlemanly " No problem, Coach"

It takes all kinds !!!!

This weekend at my son's 14U tournament the other team was up 9-1 in the fourth. There is a 10 runs after 5 rule in place and the other team squeezed to get a run home. Our coach went ballistic!! F-bombs, horse sh++, and every name in the book. After ranting and raving for 10 minutes he called time. My son was playing third and this is how the meeting went. Nothing but cussing and talk about how the other team was disrepecting the game and our team. He told the pitcher to throw over to first 10 times and then "stick it in the batter's ear".

Happily the pitcher didn't do it. He did throw to first 4 times in a row. All of this was caused by a coach losing his mind over a percieved insult about "how the game should be played."

Some of the parents started to get upset with the squeeze play but I talked to a few and told them the opposing coach was just trying to shorten the game and save some pitching and it cooled off in the stands.

We are through with that organization.

Doughnutman, nice post. Had I been the coach, we would have been off of the stretch knowing that the winning run was on third. We would have had a defense called for the squeeze. You all know the options. It sounds to me like he was mad because he got caught with his pants down. Again, coach your team. Assume nothing! Don't expect for another team to quit playing the game because your squad isn't of the same caliber. Then, if you play every minute of every game like the game is on the line, you'll have a group of salty vets by the end of the year ready for anything. JMHO!

CoachB25
I am with you all the way---we would have been trying to stop the final run from scoring so that we would not be in the mercy situation---as far as we are concerned there is no lead that is insurmountable

I believe and i'm sure other's also believe??
That if you disrespect the game! you will pay for it later?
What come's around goes around.

If there was a mercy rule in effect.
Then the opposing coach did the right thing for his team.
Get it over with as fast as possible.
There's No Disrespect at all Intended.
Just helping his team and saving arms.
EH

I'm going to go a different route and say I got showed up by a team using a squeeze play to end a game against me two years ago. Now that I think about it I am pretty ticked off because they went against the "unwritten rules" of having your cleanup hitter lay down a squeeze.

We were playing the best team in our region and happened to be one of the best teams in the state. They had 3 guys go DI and several others end up at JUCOs and smaller schools. They were stacked and very good.

Well here it is bottom of the 7th at their place and the winning run on third with like one out. Their clean up hitter (who is now at University of Louisville smashing bombs) is up. For just a second I thought there is no way they are going to squeeze here. It wouldn't be right for a clean up hitter to lay down a squeeze. So I played my corners somewhat back for a ground ball.

Well you know it - the runner broke for home and the clean up hitter laid down a perfect bunt and we couldn't get the out. Run scores - game over.

That was just wrong and never should have happened. That is bush league to have a guy who can hit it 400 feet to lay down a bunt.

Now hopefully people can read the sarcasm in this post as I intended it to be. Everything I said was true about the game and it happened just as I said it happened. I got out coached in this game because I didn't think they were going to run the squeeze.

If I was truly upset over something like this then I would be as irrational as someone getting upset over a mercy rule. You end the game in the way that helps your team the best. If you don't like the mercy rule then start a movement to eliminate it.

Other than that - take care of the things that you can control. You control your team and if you get killed by a better team then tip your hat and work on getting better instead of getting on here and complaining. You put something out there and pretty much nobody agrees with you. Now your mad. Get over it.

Coach

We had a similar thing happen with us but were the guys doing the bunting---we were down by a run in the last inning and needing 2 to win to move on in the tournament---our first two batters get on and we have first and second and no outs with our cleanup hitter up---it should be noted that he is 6ft 10 inches in height and 290 pounds and can hit a ball a country mile when he hits it--- we put the runners in motion and he drops a bunt and almost beats it out--but now we have second and third with one out-- the pitcher was so unnerved he uncorks two wild pitches and we win---unethical what we did ?- no way-- we wanted to make sure we got the runner to second and third with one out


Incidently the young went onto become a JUCO All American and now coaches with us and we still talk about that play

Guess I don't understand why people are jumping on Nicholas here. He states he doesn't know what he would do in a situation to end the game early to save pitching. That is the only situation that is in question here, near as I can tell.

Still don't know the exact situation in the original post. If it were the last inning, your team is leading by 8 runs and your hitting in the top of the seventh... Would anyone here bunt? You can't save pitching in that situation.

Anyway, IMO there is a time and place for many things. There are things that one person would call "bush" that in reality are simply playing the percentages.

Sometimes things just don't add up.

Tied up late in a game your hitter leads off the inning with a double. Depending on who's hitting next this is a definite bunt situation.

9 run lead late in the game your hitter leads off with a double. Seriously... How many here would bunt him to 3B rather than give three hitters a chance to drive him in?

"Other" than saving arms during a busy schedule or tournament, I just can't understand bunting with a big lead at anytime during a game. If a game is tied and a team scores 8 runs, I would never expect to see the 12th or 13th hitter of the inning lay one down.

That said, I don't think any coach should go ballistic or even get upset if this stuff happens. Often it's the guy making all the fuss that ends up looking "bush". Class is always on display!

Nicholas,

Keep in mind that there are a lot of Old School coaches who post here. Many of them have been very successful, even the old school coaches don't agree on everything. You have the main ingredient that we all share... A passion for the game! Good luck.

quote:
Have you ever sac bunted in the last inning with an 8 run lead? And... Have you ever sac bunted ever with an 8 run lead?

No. We pay lots of money for those bats so we can swing 'em.