I was out today with the boy at one of the local parks. Some dads/sons joined us for a game of whiffle ball. Whiffle ball...awesome. As the kids took turns hitting, I'd hear some dads say "get those hands up", and I hear other dads say "get that back elbow up".

Keep in mind, these boys were between the ages of 5-8. The kids who were told to hold their back elbow up seemed to take that term literally. They would initiate the swing forward with the back elbow up. My kid was hitting the ball pretty well, so a couple of dads asked me about basic hitting position for their sons. A couple guys said they were taught back elbow up, and they would teach their sons back elbow up. I told them good luck at that and went back to the game.

What do you guys prescribe by?

Hands high good
The hands want to be at the top of the strike zone. Hand going down = hard line drive, ground ball.

Elbow High bad
The elbow high is a bad habit. The elbow must go down in order to hit properly. The elbow must go into the hitting slot to hit properly. The elbow up can produce a long swing and the action of dropping the elbow to hit can create a lot of pop flys.

Hi SoCal...exactly the point I was trying to make. I even had the dads swing both ways. They said elbow high felt good to them, but I saw a better swing with the hands held high.

nothing good about elbow high. it has to go to where it is suppose to be to swing.

Elbiow up is an Old School teach. Elbow up/high is a waisted movement. But, it isn't the end of the world as long as the elbow gets back into the hitting slot at the right moment. Edgar Martinez hit a few balls that way. He had a nice career.

I personally try to discourage it. Hard habit to break once a kid starts that way. If dad taught him that at 5 years old, you may have a hard time breaking the kid of the habit.

It doesn't matter where body parts are in a stance. What matters is where body parts are at "locked and loaded." I have two kids. They don't look anything alike in their stances and where their hands are. At "locked and loaded" they look identical.

High elbow can work pretty well, e.g., Albert Pujols. But you have to work hard to avoid looping the bat head as you approach the ball from that position. Pujols handles it perfectly, of course. But for a young kid, high elbow almost always translates into the long, loopy swing. It can work at the low age levels, but not as they get older and face real pitching.

I don't know that the hands need to be high per se, but I do prefer to see them higher than the elbows and pulled back to roughly inside the rear shoulder. Above the shoulder a tad but not in the Carl Yastrzemski position.

One other thing about the high elbow position is that it can help trigger the high torque, slight uppercut swing beloved to pro ball. In youth ball, though, you have to be able to get to the high strike -- the pitch MLB hitters don't have to worry about. I think the high elbow position makes that pretty difficult for most young kids to pull off.

Watch Chase Utley hit and tell me if his hands are held high....Agree that Back elbow up is bad...and i think Hands held high can also give young kids the wrong idea....my son use to hold his hands above his shoulder...got him to lower them a bit and he started to rake....

AROD has a pretty high elbow as well. really depends on ability and comfort.

There is no question that a phrase like "Get that back up" is bad advice mainly because there is no logical reason to have it there in the stance prior to the swing, and because young hitters in particular tend to take these words literally and try to KEEP it there DURING the swing instead of lowering it to a properly "slotted" position prior to contact. That said, however, a raised elbow to some extent (somewhere between significantly above the shoulder like Milton Bradley, for example, or slightly below it like a Justin Morneau)is essential to taking the "slop" out of the "cocking" or triggering mechanism needed to achieve maximum bat quickness and bat speed. Try taping a major (or minor) league game and look at the hitters' swings in stop-frame or slow motion. I defy anyone to find a player who doesn't do this prior to intiating his swing.

Whoops, of course I meant "Get the back ELBOW up." And by the way, there are some excellent clips illustrating the raised elbow on the "Push off on the back leg" thread in the Hitting forum.

Keep it simple - tell them to put it where it's comfortable. If it's high then put it high, if it's low then put it low. IF they are comfortable they aren't thinking about it and it "should" naturally drop to the right place.

Watch a video of a MLB player. Try Chipper.

Most players keep their back elbow up until their stride is finished.

Then they throw the elbow down to their hips to generate bat speed.

Try this on a field. Hit with your elbow down. Then hit with your elbow up and see which balls go further.

I tried it and you seem to have something. I am simply concerned that dropping the elbow during lock and load position will cause a loop in the swing (for a youngster that is).

Young kids should not worry about the elbow. We have all heard dads/moms telling kids to get the back elbow up and most couldn't tell you why. Kids have a lot more problems with their swings than elbow position. Get their hands in the right area and the elbow will do what it does.

As kids get older and stronger you will see them start raising their elbows pre stride. If they kock the bat it's even more noticable. Young kids usually
do not have the strength to get a high elbow back to the slot and stay inside the ball.

All young kids should learn this kind of body movement....

quote:

Originally posted by TripleDad:
Young kids should not worry about the elbow. We have all heard dads/moms telling kids to get the back elbow up and most couldn't tell you why. Kids have a lot more problems with their swings than elbow position. Get their hands in the right area and the elbow will do what it does.

As kids get older and stronger you will see them start raising their elbows pre stride. If they kock the bat it's even more noticable. Young kids usually
do not have the strength to get a high elbow back to the slot and stay inside the ball.

I see this kind of talk all the time on forums. Any 5 year old kid can be taught the basic techniques - I know. How much strength do you need to hold your elbow up?

Just teach kids the right way to hit from the start.

quote:

Just teach kids the right way to hit from the start.

Absolutely....If you don't, you are getting in the way of them reaching their potential....

quote:

I see this kind of talk all the time on forums. Any 5 year old kid can be taught the basic techniques - I know. How much strength do you need to hold your elbow up?

It doesn't take much strength to hold the elbow up, thats not the point. I coached 5-8 age group for 9 years and kids that age have a whole lot of issues with their swing. They step out, drop their hands, pull their heads, transfer weight over front leg, they are long, they are late, hand grip is usually wrong, and on and on.
Every year I would get a few kids with a host of problems in their swing and they have their elbow way up(cuz daddy says so). I can't do much with the kid until he relaxes the elbow and quits forcing it up.

Most Kids 8u just do not have the strength (core or hands) to handle the bat with the wrist hinged that way. Getting the hands to fire from the loaded position instead of dropping or creeping down/forword is a bigger priority than elbow slot. And thats with advanced 8yr !


If you want to try to get little Jonny below to swing a bat like the above clips, be my guest!

quote:

Every year I would get a few kids with a host of problems in their swing and they have their elbow way up(cuz daddy says so). I can't do much with the kid until he relaxes the elbow and quits forcing it up.

TripleDad, the question is, what are you doing for the kid's future as a hitter?

Taking body movement away from the player now, IMO, will hinder his future development....

quote:

I coached 5-8 age group for 9 years and kids that age have a whole lot of issues with their swing. They step out, drop their hands, pull their heads, transfer weight over front leg, they are long, they are late, hand grip is usually wrong, and on and on.

These are issues in your opinion, but, MLB hitters do most, if not all, of these things....