Attached are a back and side view of my son hitting off a tee. Regarding an inward turn (or closing off the front shoulder - NOT SURE WHAT IS CORRECT HITTING JARGON), how much is too much? Besides that the videos are dark , any other comments regarding his swing are appreciated. Thanks!

Tee Swing Back View
Tee Swing Side View

Analyzing tee swings isn't very productive. Too much time for slop to creep in.

Film some swings vs. live pitching - game or BP.

Over-rotating the shoulders is a common flaw on tee swings.

how do you "over rotate" shoulders?

Turn your back to the pitcher too much.

as long as minimal head movement and both eyes can stay on release point... the more, probably, the better.... especially if you are taught hips lead...

Tugizoot;

Why not use the "high tee" and a wood bat when hitting off the tee?

Bob Williams

Tuz,
Your son has some fast hands! He probably is a good contact hitter. I noticed he swings down on the ball a little bit. This could explain the high finish which he uses to correct his "down stroke". Something to try is a little better setup/stance where he is not standing straight up, but bent over or more tilted over the plate (more athletic posture). This may help him to develop a slightly different swing plane...more on the line or path of the pitch. I think this will help.

Diablo,
Absolutely, shoulder rotation is a good thing! Done efficiently in the unloading process it creates an explosive boost to bat speed. I'm not speaking for Sandman, but I think he was referring to inward shoulder turn when hitting off a tee at load. Sandman?
This is a common problem I've seen with younger hitters trying to generate speed in their swing especially off a tee. They counter-rotate their shoulders and get their hands too far behind the shoulders. They have to extend the arms to try and get the swing started causing them to lose speed.
Tuz, I see this in your son, but like Sandman said his live swing may be different. Send in some BP video.

tuzigoot...

I'm surprised all you've gotten so far is 'tee swings aren't worth analyzing'.....because this swing is VERY good.

And.....most all hitters swing down. Their hands start at their ear or armpit and are well below their starting point at contact.

Yes, BBK3, I was referring to inward shoulder turn prior to launching the swing.

I will say though, these ARE some pretty darned good tee swings. But I've seen too many tee and other drill swings that aren't carried over to live. And seeing baseball is still played on a diamond, with a live pitcher...

BBK3.. i WAS talking about the "load" or counter rotation phase... what is wrong with counter rotation in what you deem the "load" phase?

I teach my players to NOT load to the backside and then swing to the front side, but to counter rotate shoulders (slightly) and then when they want to swing, explode with hips first -creating a degree of torque in body (angle of open hips in relation to counter rotated shoulders) - and have muscles that act on hips swing bat.. effortless power.

If you are having problem with kids getting "hands too far behind shoulder and then extending arms to get swing started" then you have another problem... one, teach the kids that arms/hands do not start swing, two, teach them how to properly keep thier hands inside the baseball.... alot of people tell players "keep your hands inside"... but don't teach them how/why, etc.. in same breath you usually hear coach say " go get that pitch " - which are opposite comments...

I agree if they "extend arms" they typically lose bat speed, but you said " they HAVE to extend arms" - and to me no they don't HAVE to, if they are taught properly...

SANDMAN- if you are seeing nice, compact, powerful swings with a good swing plane while they are hitting off tee, but NOT in games... then it is not muscle memory yet... it takes an individual 1,000 - 2,000 repetitions for something to happen without having to think about it... make tee work a daily priority for a couple of weeks (100 swings per day?) and you should start seeing it carry over... JMO though....

Diablo,
I agree. The operative word is 'slightly' when talking about counter-rotation. Pros do it so that's good enough for me! Too much is a can of worms.
I used the 'extend arms' analogy as one possible way to illustrate the point. Take a look at Ankiel's swing sometime, how he loads. There are no absolutes!

quote:

SANDMAN- if you are seeing nice, compact, powerful swings with a good swing plane while they are hitting off tee, but NOT in games... then it is not muscle memory yet... it takes an individual 1,000 - 2,000 repetitions for something to happen without having to think about it... make tee work a daily priority for a couple of weeks (100 swings per day?) and you should start seeing it carry over... JMO though....

Most tee swings I see are horrible.

quote:

I will say though, these ARE some pretty darned good tee swings.

well, i was just reffering to this comment above...


BBK3- u didn't answer/respond with much of anything.. if a kid can rotate a lot or a little without taking eyes off pitcher and with little head movement the more rotation, the better...

stretch/torque is a good thing...

Diablo,
I said 'I agree'. Your points are valid. 'If a kid' and 'slightly' weren't specific to put us on the same page, but I feel we're reading the same book. Not all kids can manage certain movements as well as others, ie. counter-rotation. But, 'if a kid' does those things you mentioned he IS doing well and 'I agree' .
Does that answer your question? I wasn't trying to avoid you. I guess I was a little vague.
That being said, back to we, the internet experts helping this man's swing!

Here you go. Side view hitting in cage off an Iron Mike. Thanks.

Iron Mike Side

TUZ, there are many, many variables in a good hitter's mechanics. Most would tell you the perfect hitter doesn't over rotate, has zero head movement, lightening fast hands, THOR power to all fields, swivel hips and statue-like balance. But, unless he's a robot he's going to have flaws.

If he's hitting with me, I would really care about his shoulder rotation if his hands are out of the proper position at POC. Quite frankly, he can stand on his head, juggling 3 bats for all I care, as long as he's balanced and his hands are in the proper place at POC. Now, can he improve? Of course all of us can. But is he missing?? I hear good solid contact. I see him hitting off the Mike, again, it appears to be solid contact.

What are the end results? That's truly the only way to properly evaluate and improve his swing, compare END RESULTS? He's hitting the ball so hard I have no clue where they are going? Are they up, weak grounders strong side, flare pop-ups weak side? It looks like he's hitting in an established place, is there someone that can go hands on? Also, how old is he? Did I miss that and whats he swinging a 2? 3? 4?.

BTW - I really like his finish and the tee swings look and sound like good, solid contact.

GED10DaD

He's a senior, and its a 33.

Thanks for some feedback.

Hey, you are welcome.... Then he's an established hitter. Where is he playing?? He looks pretty good to me.

Is he a dead pull, gap, or mostly oppo with his current swing?

GED10DaD

SS. Right now, dead pull. He's faced two kids already this year that were popping 90. Dead pull. He's having a hard time waiting.