My first post on definitely the most helpful site for youth baseball on the web. Son is a 14 year old freshman (5'9", 135 lbs) who will be trying out for the HS team in Feb (JV and Varsity only, no Freshman team). He's played LL and travel for the past 3 years and will likely pitch, but also loves to hit.
His first 2 swings I had him keep simple to get his timing down. The next 2 I asked him to get a little more weight shift and stretch. He was more consistent squaring the ball up with a simple approach. My main question is, since he likely will never be a big power guy, will he be more successful at the HS level keeping things simple and hitting more line drives, or should we keep working on generating more pop? Any other comments on the mechanics would be appreciated.
Posts: 37 | Location: Northern California | Registered: November 11, 2008
My advice to you as living through high school ball my freshman year wtih not being a power hitter at all. I was probably the same size as your son. What made me a succesful hitter to earn my spot on varsity was that i knew my job. My job wasn't to try and hit homeruns or shots in the gap. I simply knew that if there was a runner on first my job was to get him over any way possible. As young as he is you can't really teach power in a kids swing. If he just keeps working being able to the the ball where he wants for ex. ( with a runner on second being able to hit the ball to the right side of the field to move him over) a coach would rather have someone that is able to do that than hti the ball 300 feet in the air for an out. As your son gets older and with the conditioning at school and hitting the weight room during off season that is when is power will develope. If he just keeps working hard and keeps his head up nothing should be able to stop him. As for advice on the hitting video. Your sons swing looks really compact, nice, and smooth just watch his front foot to make sure he isn't putting to much weight on it. Other than that all i have to say is i hope your son has a great season and enjoys his high school experience.
"There is no such thing as pressure. What you feel is fear. You feel it because you are unprepared."
Actually, Vols advice ain't that bad. At 135 lbs. and 14 yr old your son isn't going to knock down the fence no matter how much stretch his swing has. Can his swing improve...of course but as he gets stronger the power will come and he will make swing changes. Right now he has to make the team and hitting line drives wins games at all levels.
Dead hands...somewhat but watch alot of the old timers and you will see similar things going on. Back then alot of guys preached being "quiet" at the plate with little prelimanary movement. Williams, Kaline, Musial,Dimaggio, Mantle and several more were very "quiet" hitters compared to the theatrics some MLB hitters do today....difference is the old guys didn't struck out like today's players. Ortiz and Howard wouldn't have had a chance to even get to the plate....they probably wouldn't have made it out of the minors. Your son needs to focus on solid contact and line drives...and hitting the weights.
Don't let your son get hung up on seeing the 200 lb kids hitting bombs because right now that is not your son's game. Focus on playing his game at well as he can.
Looking at the video, your son appears to be over rotating before contact, thus swinging his arms in a circular motion, instead of a linear line to the ball and thru it with extension.
Previous Post: IMHO - The majority of big league hitters utilize a rotational swing. The key to hitting for a higher average with power is the ability to implement the hands in a linear plane with the rotation of your feet, hips and shoulders.
My son had a linear type swing thru high school. Although he was All State and played college ball D3. The lack of power that this swing produced, ultimely cost him the chance to play at a higher level (D1 or D2). After him working with Rudy Jaramillo (Tx Rangers) once, and Dave Hudgins who was with the Oakland A's at the time and currently with the Clevland Indians at a 2 day camp. Only then did he/I start to fully understand the mechanics of the swing. He was All Conference his Junior year and actually had an offer from a D1 school after that year. Having to sit out for a year was not really an option. But it was an offer still the same.
After your load. If you are Hands first, it is a linear type of approach i.e. aluminium bat swing, power is greatly diminshed. The hands need to fire at the same time as the back heel turns to contact and thru extension. Your rear toe should be pointed in the direction that you should drive the ball in relation to pitch location at full extension. Thus at contact point the lower end works in conjunction with the upper end, allowing you to stay behind the ball. Listed below are rough estimates. There will be slight variations with all hitters.
Stance-weight balanced 50/50 Load-weight either 20/80 or 30/70 Contact point 50/50 extension 60/40
"You see, you spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball, and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time"
Posts: 266 | Location: Swamps and Quicksand | Registered: October 21, 2008
Looking at the video, your son appears to be over rotating before contact, thus swinging his arms in a circular motion, instead of a linear line to the ball and thru it with extension.
OldSchool- you want his arms/hands linear instead of circular? You want him to hit to the ball and thru it with extension?
If so, I would say that is awful advice. JMO
Posts: 579 | Location: Texas | Registered: March 04, 2006
What direction would you say this hitter's hands and arms are going in this swing? I would say they have to be moving in a linear path to and through the ball since they don't move forward from frame 1 to frame 7.
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Posts: 1058 | Location: mid west | Registered: January 23, 2008
Hands coming forward inside the ball, elbow tight and barrell close to the shoulder for as long as possibel.Lower end rotating with his weight and head staying back until contact. Firm front side, this swing should generate very good power as long as the barrell stays up at contact. Without being able to see the feet, the swing almost looks like a Skip Bertman's desciple. Where the back foot is almost off the ground at contact. Not sure from the pics though, can not tell the pitch looks to be in, so that would explain why the future contact point looks to be out front.
"You see, you spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball, and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time"
Posts: 266 | Location: Swamps and Quicksand | Registered: October 21, 2008
It appears to me he's not keeping his weight back. His weight transfer is too early. It also appears he's getting his hands out in front. They should be more inside his swing.
Power is not about size and strength. Power is about proper mechanics and bat speed. Being big is only one way to creat bat speed. A smaller player can generate bat speed with quickness.
Hitting isn't about keeping it simple. Hitting is about being fundamentally sound. A hitter may have a new stance every year. But that's just for preparing to load. Once he loads he should be doing the same thing.
* Impossible is just a degree of difficulty *
Posts: 4508 | Location: Mid-Atlantic | Registered: October 29, 2007
Originally posted by Old School79: Thank You, Powertoallfields
Hands coming forward inside the ball, elbow tight and barrell close to the shoulder for as long as possibel.Lower end rotating with his weight and head staying back until contact. Firm front side, this swing should generate very good power as long as the barrell stays up at contact. Without being able to see the feet, the swing almost looks like a Skip Bertman's desciple. Where the back foot is almost off the ground at contact. Not sure from the pics though, can not tell the pitch looks to be in, so that would explain why the future contact point looks to be out front.
You can actually see the ball in frame 7. Why do you say the barrel needs to stay up?
Posts: 1058 | Location: mid west | Registered: January 23, 2008
Backspin is termonolgy, to me. Meaning being able to keep the barrell above the ball at contact, on certain pitches. Thus allowing the back shoulder to come thru on extension. The hands need to be able to extend thru the ball, after contact. Something that is very difficult to do, if you do not keep the barrell up on pitches above the belt. JMO
"You see, you spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball, and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time"
Posts: 266 | Location: Swamps and Quicksand | Registered: October 21, 2008
Meaning being able to keep the barrell above the ball at contact
Barrel above the ball??? Wouldn't that be missing the ball? Keeping the front elbow up on pitches up is the way to hit pitches up.
We're thinking along the same lines. If you (Old School79) suggest that you want backspin and now you're keeping the barrel above the ball, I just don't see it. T. Williams talked about matching the plane of the pitch with the swing plane. I think that is sound advice. See video below of this concept albeit it this is a check swing:
Video on your concept? We're big on this site with having posters back their position via video. It'd be appreciated in this case. BTW, I've always wondered about the concept of being so good (hs or amature hitter) that you can produce backspin when you desire it. I'm positive that the stats are available of exactly where on the ball the bat needs to strike it for optimum back spin. I'm equally positive that within the time constraints, most hitters can hit a ball in that time frame with the intent to create backspin. Most can barely make contact. Then I further suggest that if you're that good and can do that in such a limited time frame, you're on your way to MLB and will win a few batting titles. Finally, in another thread, you mentioned that you don't believe that the golf swing and the baseball swing are comparable. ???
"... and if you want to make God laugh, tell him your plan."
BTW, I've always wondered about the concept of being so good (hs or amature hitter) that you can produce backspin when you desire it. I'm positive that the stats are available of exactly where on the ball the bat needs to strike it for optimum back spin. I'm equally positive that within the time constraints, most hitters can hit a ball in that time frame with the intent to create backspin.
Coach,
I agree! This is the big flaw, IMO, of swinging down on the ball to create backspin philosophy. Too many breaking pitches going down in the upper levels to swing down and be successful.
Posts: 1058 | Location: mid west | Registered: January 23, 2008
QUOTE] Barrel above the ball??? Wouldn't that be missing the ball? Keeping the front elbow up on pitches up is the way to hit pitches up. [/QUOTE]
Missing the ball? Jeez, I thought this was a hitting thread.
quote:
Please explain "backspinning a ball." Technique to do it. Drills coached to do it.
Nothing more than hitting off a tee. Tommy Hernandez demonstrated at a coaches clinic at Arc Park in the late 90's that I attended. When you hit off a tee. Simply place the ball where thin seams "2-seams" face outward and very slightly upward toward the hitter. The idea is to strike between the thin seams at a ever so slight downward angle go thru the baseball and come out in the middle of the round seams on the backside. Thus never touching any seam on the ball until you come out on the backside.......It's all hypothetical, but we have found thru the years that it gives young hitters a concept of how to hit off a tee, stay inside the ball and not touch the tee itself.
Backspin might be the wrong termonology for what I'm trying to say. Not sure. To me this is the most effective way to hit pitches up in the zone, generally letters to just below the belt. I'm not a big believer in the "Giambi swing" hitting the bottom of the ball on pitches up. It is very effective for certain type hitters...The bigger guys it seems..........I also feel that produces more strikeouts.
We play quit a bit of wood bat events. It seems that when hitters drop their top hand before contact on balls up, they usually end up with a duck **** pop up. Metal bats seem to generate this type swing, I feel it allows younger hitters success, from being able to flip the ball over infielders head. This does not work very well with Wood Bats. I agree with being on plane, to me that is basically what I'm talking about when I say "barrell up".
None of this really matters, if the hitter cannot gain extension and get his backside thru the ball
quote:
Keeping the front elbow up on pitches up is the way to hit pitches up.
powertoallfields.
powertoallfields? Now your saying that you want to chicken wing the high pitch?
Maybe anything above the hands? But why would you swing at that pitch, unless it the hanger that just stays there. Sounds to me more like a softball swing.
quote:
Coach,
I agree! This is the big flaw, IMO, of swinging down on the ball to create backspin philosophy. Too many breaking pitches going down in the upper levels to swing down and be successful.
A good hitter has to develop the ability, to recognize pitches down in the zone and drop the barrell on them, JMHO.
"You see, you spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball, and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time"
Posts: 266 | Location: Swamps and Quicksand | Registered: October 21, 2008
We're thinking along the same lines. If you (Old School79) suggest that you want backspin and now you're keeping the barrel above the ball, I just don't see it. T. Williams talked about matching the plane of the pitch with the swing plane. I think that is sound advice. See video below of this concept albeit it this is a check swing:
Coach, this is a good video, as far as pitch recognition, although he recognized late or it was early in the count. Either way his barrell appears to stay up and by his back shoulder until the last possible second. Also, you see the hitters front elbow up, where it ideally should be at full extension after contact. Generally a late sign from the hitter, showing you that he was "beat on the pitch".
"You see, you spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball, and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time"
Posts: 266 | Location: Swamps and Quicksand | Registered: October 21, 2008
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