Japanese and Latin players have learned to emulate MLB hitters as kids, as soon as they begin playing....They get the label, "free-swingers".....

It seems like MLB teams are signing more and more of these so-called "free swingers" every year....Even though their Minor League programs are chock full of traditional hitters...

Coaches here teach young players not to have much movement in their swings....Less is better, they say....Their little bodies can't handle all that movement stuff....

Watch any young team in this Country and you will see still, dead hands hitters.....They get a wide stance, load the bat, and wait for the ball.....

And, they have some success in Little League doing this.....This success incorrectly instills in the players and the Coaches that they're doing it the right way.....

So, it sure seems to me I am seeing more and more Japanese and Latin MLB players every year....Their little bodies seem to be able to handle all that movement at a young age....

But, then, they probably don't have Coaches teaching them how to swing like we do over here....

All they do is watch MLB hitters and try to do what they do........

So true.

I remember as a 10 year old swinging a bat that was too heavy with the 'instructional swing' (32" oz.)

I started just swinging relaxed because I couldn't drag the bat through fast enough to make contact.

When I relaxed my swing and let the bat do most of the work, I was hitting the ball farther and faster than my more learned teammates.

That coach kicked me off the team because I wouldn't listen, but I was picked up as I was leaving the park by a team with a full sponsor (Goya).

The coach mentioned that he 'liked' my swing.

quote:

So, it sure seems to me I am seeing more and more Japanese and Latin MLB players every year....Their little bodies seem to be able to handle all that movement at a young age....

But, then, they probably don't have Coaches teaching them how to swing like we do over here....

Bluedog - it appears you are an advocate of movement in the swing and body. You posted a clip of Gary Sheffield the other day and indicated that is how it ought to be done/taught. I can certainly see the movement in Sheffield's swing. What I don't understand is if you like Sheffield so much, why don't you like Manny Ramirez even more? I don't see the movement you are talking about in Manny's swing. I see a short-to-the-ball swing with lots of bat speed but not the movement or motion as in Sheffield's swing/body. Many has played five less years than Sheffield yet his numbers are superior in every category. I am not sure that teaching someone Sheffield's swing is the answer. It works for him but it may not be the answer for others.

OK, let's compare Manny and Scheffield.......

That bat triggering really gets things going.

What about Vlladamir ? He certainly tips the bat pretty good too .

It's not so much how much they tip the bat, but how they tip it and why they tip it. You have to know what they are trying to accomplish. Babe Ruth, Lou Gerhig, Joe Jackson, all made this move many, many moons ago. It worked then and it works now!

We talk a lot about "loading hips" and "loading shoulders", and I know that there are many here who downplay the hands aspect of hitting. But, it almost seems as though this timing mechanism, this triggering mechanism, appears to "load" the hands and wrists. I know that when my son incorporated this trigger, as seen above (not necessarily to the extreme of those above) his bat speed increased significantly.

Yep! Bat's lighter and allows more stretch and time to see the ball. It also puts things in the right sequence.

How does someone take the position that power hitters are rotational hitters, and downplay the significance of hands and wrists, or the "top hand". It sure looks to me like the best hitters make use of more than just arms and a rotating core. The use of Hands, wrists, and forearms do not make you a linear hitter.

You might be a linear hitter if:

• your hands force your elbow to leave your hip before you contact the ball
  
• you flip your wrists before you make contact
  

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
OK, let's compare Manny and Scheffield.......

What do you see when you compare them?

The waggle of the bat is not random...it is creating synchronization with the lower body and maintining monentum while the eyes are processing the pitch.

quote:

Originally posted by wayback:
The waggle of the bat is not random...it is creating synchronization with the lower body and maintining monentum while the eyes are processing the pitch.

That is an excellent description wayback. I checked your bio to see if you were an engineer or scientist but could not tell.

If you look up at the Sultan of Swat's avatar above, you will see a clip of Babe Ruth. His synchronization mechanisms reminds me more of Sheffield. Does the way that Sheffield and Manny synchronize remind you of each other?

quote:

Originally posted by wayback:
The waggle of the bat is not random...it is creating synchronization with the lower body and maintining monentum while the eyes are processing the pitch.

wayback - you have made me realize something.

Hope no one laughs me out of this forum but wayback's description made me think of a possible analogous mechanical system - the helicopter. It is the idea of counter-acting forces to maintain stability. In this case, it is counter-acting torque to maintain stability. With a helicopter, the small rotor blade counter-acts the torque of the main blade in such a way to keep the helicopter stable i.e., spinning out of control. Also, the axis of motion of the rotor and propeller are 90 degrees from one another. The human body during the swing is also a balance of counter-acting torque's at 90 degree angles. The hips are the main propeller blade operating on one axis of rotation whereas the load and swing-plane act as the roter blade. If all that sounds dumb, I will remove my post

quote:

What do you see when you compare them?

I see a two-plane swing developing....The bat is out of plane early on as the hands load against the front hip opening....

I see stretch, momentum and weight shift in a very efficient swing....And, lots of movement....



What I don't see is still, dead-hands hitting....I don't see stride, load and wait kind of stuff like I see being taught all over to the young kids.....

quote:

What I don't see is still, dead-hands hitting....Not stride, load and wait kind of stuff like I see being taught all over to the young kids.....

Fair enough. Like Manny, I have always liked Chipper's swing.

Bluedog - Is it fair to say that as long as you see smooth consistent movement in the swing that you are not as concerned with style? Do you have any recent clips of Josh Hamilton?

What I see is coaches teaching dead hand hitters because it allows for some success with metal bats against weak pitching. Dead hand hitters will never have success against quality pitching. And they will not hit with wood. Teach young kids how to hit properly regardless of how much success they have early. It will come with time and patience. Its very easy to teach dead hand hitting. Sit and wait , way wide and no hand movement. BlueDog you are dead on with this one. I could not agree more.

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:

quote:

What I don't see is still, dead-hands hitting....Not stride, load and wait kind of stuff like I see being taught all over to the young kids.....

Fair enough. Like Manny, I have always liked Chipper's swing.

Bluedog - Is it fair to say that as long as you see smooth consistent movement in the swing that you are not as concerned with style? Do you have any recent clips of Josh Hamilton?

There are some clips of Hamilton in the "Good stuff" thread. Mark DeRosa has added this too.

The longer the stride or higher the leg kick the more the bat has to be tipped. The key is to have the bat on plane (or very close to it when the front heel hits the ground, or as some say, "to launch point".

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:

quote:

Originally posted by wayback:
The waggle of the bat is not random...it is creating synchronization with the lower body and maintining monentum while the eyes are processing the pitch.

wayback - you have made me realize something.

Hope no one laughs me out of this forum but wayback's description made me think of a possible analogous mechanical system - the helicopter. It is the idea of counter-acting forces to maintain stability. In this case, it is counter-acting torque to maintain stability. With a helicopter, the small rotor blade counter-acts the torque of the main blade in such a way to keep the helicopter stable i.e., spinning out of control. Also, the axis of motion of the rotor and propeller are 90 degrees from one another. The human body during the swing is also a balance of counter-acting torque's at 90 degree angles. The hips are the main propeller blade operating on one axis of rotation whereas the load and swing-plane act as the roter blade. If all that sounds dumb, I will remove my post

Dad,


Not sure how a helo works, but I believe you hit the nail on the head when you talk about a stabilizer. The "bat float" keeps the upper body from spinning forward until it is pulled through using the core and legs. Also, the moving bat is much easier to swing than a dead one and easier to adjust.