quote:

Originally posted by Shepster:
Barring the lead arm is usually an adjustment the body has to make to reach hittable pitches without the frontside breaking down by reaching too far on outside pitches; also, the adjustment the body has to make in order to reach low, low-middle and low-away pitches.

I agree, based on what I see in the Pujols stills and the clips. It's what you have to do to get to a ball that's low and outside.

Certainly we can all agree that the arm bar isn't pretty. It also isn't necessarily a necessity to hit that outside pitch. Generally, MLB players are turn and burn. In other words, they have such outstanding reactions that the ball is barely out of the pitchers hand when they have made so many determinations about the pitch as well as starting the swing process. At times, they become disconnected at times, they have poor tilt and at times they bar the arm and produce an less than optimal swing. At those times when the hitter does made the right judgment on location and allow that ball to get over the white of the plate, before contact, they stay connected and typically drive the ball to the power gap or most certainly the opposite field. JMHO!

This is a earlier post in this thread I made out to Linear in the CKs and balances of the discussion here about extending arms for the reach factor or barring for extension to ball with the sweet spot!

quote:

Linear:
As long as the integrity of the rotation of the lower body is not changed and remains dominant factor in swing stages, the arms can, "very slightly", get out of the box on middle-out pitches. They have to...you are right.

Shep, I would assume that along with with good posture, the timing of the barring determines it's effect.

Late barring to extend through the point of contact, or late extension to make contact with outside pitch would still allow bat speed.

Early barring would hinder the swing, regardless of all else being done (ie posture, rotation, etc).

Looking at the pictures, late being defined relative to the time of contact. Piazza is barred, but that ball is getting pretty close to the zone. Any contact will likely be middle to oppo. Barring that early in the swing on an inside pitch, he'd probably be jammed or miss altogether.

Make sense?

Did anyone take a good look at the three clips BBScout posted or the several pictures Painguy posted?

I think those pictures and most all hitting clips I see are showing the same thing.

It's my first shot at the Big's here, but the rookie has to step up eventually.

I see a lot of common things.

Looks like firm from side (front leg rigid, slightly closed front foot and leg angling back and up at 45 +/- degrees).

Looks to be swing started at middle, as shoulders turned and head stayed in zone *(as opposed to shoulder beginning swing and pulling head out).

Back side freely coming forward. (not spinning ala squishing bug)

Shoulder tilt and matching barrel plane.

Back arm's with varying degrees of tuck.

What else?

Looks like in these pictures, Pujols uses less shoulder tilt and more rear leg flex to go get low pitches.

Would any of those pics show the box being maintained throughout the finish of the swing? Or in some cases even before contact.

Were these all outside pitches? I understand the "box", I understand the "V", And extention, and staying on the ball and hundreds of other descriptions that hitting coaches use. I understand the box and leading with front elbow on inside pitches. Staying inside the ball, short to and long finish, bat plain, posture, etc it all makes sense to me.

Thats the problem it all makes sense! Even though people disagree with certain things. Someone linked a good site that has lots of great ML hitters. To be honest, I think I might be seeing things different than many others.

For example (I think) I see extention at or near contact in most every power hitters swing. I understand that anyone can find a clip to use for debating. But then I think someone else could find another example of something different. Truth is... we should be looking for those things that most all of the great hitters do very closely the same.

Many believe Ted Williams might have been the best hitter ever and he really studied hitting. Well why not glue in on his swing!

Hope this doesn't turn into a big arguement. But maybe it will bring some of the old time posters out of retirement.

Interesting hitters

I hope this link works. It shows a few great hitters with some much different styles. And Ted Williams.

Hey Jerry,

Looks like you and I are the only two up. I just viewed everyone of the 74 video clips of hitters in the link you posted. That is an excellent link. If you click the Babe Ruth clip, it takes you to the other clips and gives stop, pause functions. The clips of Ted were amazing and there are several other clips I haven't seen that were revealing. The still photos BBscout shows certainly shows early barring of the lead arm. Good to see you here Jerry.

Wayback,

That does make sense. Tomorrow, I am going to look at a few of those clips again when I'm awake.

Peace Board,
Shep

All these hitters have have forward core movement prior to rotation. The core begins to rotate as the front foot touches down, while the upper body remains closed creating torque. Most of the hitters c o c k the hands/bat prior to the move forward by the hands. The uncoiling of the core leads to the process of turning of the shoulders.

As the shoulders turn, the tuck of the rear arm begins. As the hands begin their move forward, the "pull of the knob" (I would catagorize it as a rotation of the hands) begins to drop the barrel toward the swing plane.

It also appears that just prior to contact on most pitches, the front arm is extended, then the back arm begins to come out of the tuck allowing the top hand to whip or rotate the barrel through the zone.

Kind of like a double pendulum. The body whipping the arms in an arc, and the hands whipping the barrel in another arc.

I'm guessing it's just a coincidence, but none of the hitters were "top hand" release guys after contact. Though I acknowledge the top hand's supply of power through the untucking of the rear arm and the rotation of the top hand around the bottom hand at the time before and through contact.

Excellent Post and Description Wayback! Excellent!! What do you fellas think about this training device? To be completely honest, from my own experience, the lead shoulder needs to stay closed and not fly out of the merry-go-round except on low pitches or possibly in the case of reacting naturally to pitches moving a little more than original brain messsages anticipated. Flip side, if you can get away with this type of extension and still be productive at highest level desired, why change? Food for thought creates vision-Shepism

There can be "good extension" and there can be "bad extension"..

To know the difference is.......

Bluedog,

What's up brother? I'm up for the challenge. Just got back from golf driving range. Hit a "bunch" of golfballs. <edited> I gotta quit that chest thumping!

Anyway, here's what I think the difference is between good extension and bad extension.

Good extension is the follow-through of long through the zone and not "chop and stop" after contact in the swing plane.

Bad extension could be a number of things including reaching after bad pitches, bad mechanics, upperbody swinging, sweeping, hooking around baseball or pulling everything.

Bluedog, keep posting. I am nothing without your leadership in hitting. peace, Shep

Bluuuuuedawg! Stick around. You're needed and wanted here.

Hi Shep.

PG, we getting any closer to seeing what we're supposed to see?

Hey Wayback & Board,

What I see is the barrel of the bat doing most of the magic prior to and at contact with a lot of wrist action and hands, especially in the second clip.

Ted Williams was unique and gifted with a tremendous amount of natural ability. Ted had the ideal body type with much flexibility in his prime, JMO. What do you think wayback & board?

Peace,
Shep

Agree about The Spendid Splinter. A lot of work went into that "natural ability".

It's what I tried to describe as the back arm coming out of the tuck allowing the top hand to rotate around the knob creating whip.

Wayback, you mean this? I thought you did a super job describing this style. Wayback's Post Earlier today>

quote:

As the shoulders turn, the tuck of the rear arm begins. As the hands begin their move forward, the "pull of the knob" (I would catagorize it as a rotation of the hands) begins to drop the barrel toward the swing plane.

It also appears that just prior to contact on most pitches, the front arm is extended, then the back arm begins to come out of the tuck allowing the top hand to whip or rotate the barrel through the zone.

a moment of clarity. lol