Listed among Florida State's recruits for 2009, apparently playing for Tallahassee Community College and slated to transfer to FSU next fall.

I take it the earlier thread on Tyler has been deleted, as I cannot find it, and that is just as well. I do not mean to dredge up some of the past commentary and would ask that folks not do that.

I simply know that there are many here who know or know of Tyler and wish him well, so I thought I'd pass along the good news. FSU has given him another chance at playing for them, and I'm personally hoping he makes the most of it.

Same here Midlo. I got the chance to meet and spend some time with Tyler and his dad a couple of times. I know he put himself in tough situation but Im hoping he has learned from that and I wish him the absolute best.

Great for this player, but not so great for the 99% of the players who abide by the law and actually listen to what they are told, from the time they are 4 years old, about how to behave both on and off the field. Another roster slot disappears for those kids, taken up by a kid who ignored the lectures by the coaches and parents and teachers.

Second chances are great, but don't try to tell the kids that character and behavior matter when those who get the second chances are those who broke the rules (or in some cases, the law), and those second chances come at the expense of the kids who behaved as they have always been told they have to behave. PacMan Jones, Plaxico Burress, Josh Hamilton . . . We live in a world that preaches one thing and, when the money and championships matter, does another.

Baloney.

The law says you will be punished, and he was.

The law does not say his punishment should last his entire lifetime. And it shouldn't.

I don't think any kid with a brain would look at this situation and say, "Gee, that's what I'll do."

But maybe somebody who has already screwed up can look at it and say, "My life doesn't have to be over, if I can straighten myself out."

Midlo Dad: I am all for second chances, and even, in some cases, third, fourth and fifth chances. And I judge no one in terms of his soul or spirit, for I have sinned greater than any. However, in THIS world, we must pass judgment all the time. We make decisions about whom to hire, whom to fire, what job to take, what school to attend, all based on our common sense, experience, and judgment. So, I think it is fair to look at this situation and take the position that this particular young man's second chance comes at the expense of some other young man's first chance.

John Smith, a player of outstanding baseball talent, who does most of what Hibbs can do, but has done it without the criminal misconduct, now loses a chance at a scholarship to FSU because Hibbs's misconduct has been, essentially, ignored. That trickles down, and Mark Jones will lose his first chance opportunity at, say, Winthrop because John Smith lands there. And so. In short, giving Mr. Hibbs his second chance has adversely impacted a bunch of other good kids who did not commit this sort of misconduct.

As for that misconduct, you are correct. We all make mistakes, we all are given chances beyond the first. That is great. It has to be so since we all fail so often. However, our kids are told, by parents, administrators, coaches, ministers, teachers. . . that "these are the rules and if you break them you will not play baseball for this program." Coaches, in particular, tell their players this all the time. The kids know the rules. Hibbs CHOSE to break the rules (and the law). Other kids, with nearly his talent or even at his talent level, CHOSE NOT to break the rules. Yet, in the end, Hibbs comes off with the plumb reward while those other kids do not. THAT is what I object to in this case.

It ultimately is FSU's call. They have made a value judgment--Hibbs's talent supports FSU's decision to given him the second chance ahead of those kids who did not violate the rules or the law. I am merely offering an alternative disposition with respect to that balancing test.

isaacvanwart,

The statement that Tyler is somehow taking somebody's scholarship that didn't get into trouble is foolish. I don't know Tyler other than seeing him at a Perfect Game State Showcase in Maryland that we attended with my son. He seemed like a good kid and actually warmed my son up when nobody else would. From what I've heard he has worked very hard to reach his goals. So instead of saying FSU gave him a scholarship, you might want to say he earned it from alot of hard work. I think anybody that thinks they lost a chance to compete at the next level because somebody else took a scholarship spot needs to look in the mirror and not at someone else. My son also was forced off the field for awhile but because of a injury and I can tell you this. That when something like baseball is taken away from someone who has worked very hard to get where they are, it changes them. My son now takes nothing for granted and I would bet that Tyler is the same. I would be willing to bet that this experience will make Tyler not only a better ballplayer but also a better person. In any event I would like to wish Tyler the best and hope he fulfills his dreams.


JMO

Banditsbb

Isaac,

Think of it this way.

You're saying that the higher a kid's pre-offense achievement, the more he should be punished.

Because you want him not only to face jail etc., but to lose everything he had worked for. Meanwhile someone with lesser talent, or who didn't work as hard, gets what he might have had.

To me, he should be punished the same as other offenders of similar grade offenses. The other kids aren't being denied admission to college, they aren't being denied hire by trade employers, and they don't generally face a blackball for the rest of their lives. I see no reason to enhance punishment only for the achiever who errs, when no one else faces that fate.

I would like to join the side that will be pulling for Tyler Hibbs.

You say you are for second chances but from your posts I dont believe you believe in that unless maybe if its your kid. The kid made some bad decisions. All of them do. Some get caught and some do not. If you dont believe that all kids make bad decisions your kidding yourself. I am not saying they all make the kind of bad decisions Tyler did but they all make bad decisions.

Tyler paid the price for his bad decision. You can bet he suffered a tremendous amount and so did his family. The embarrassment and the worry , sleepless nights etc etc. I applaud FSU for giving him a second chance. This is America. They all deserve a second chance regardless of how talented they are. Just because he is talented does not mean he shouldnt get a second chance. He is not taking anything away from anyone. He is taking his spot that he earned and he has the chance now to redeem himself and FSU for giving him a second chance.

There are alot of great kids out there. There are alot of great kids out there that make bad decisions and get caught. There are alot of great kids out there that make bad decisions and dont get caught. I pull for all of them. And I am pulling like heck for Tyler Hibbs. I pull for all the kids. I hope your son never gets in any kind of trouble. But if he does I hope someone still believes in him and gives him a second chance. And I hope you think twice about saying you believe in something and post something entirely different.

With FSU's track record for arrested athletes, is this really a good school for an athlete trying to rehab?

This the school he signed with out of hs. This is the school he wanted to attend. I have no idea how many baseball players have been arrested at FSU compared to other baseball programs across the nation. I believe Mike Martin runs a good program and I believe they have great young men in that program. Are they perfect? No. But what program is?

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
This the school he signed with out of hs. This is the school he wanted to attend. I have no idea how many baseball players have been arrested at FSU compared to other baseball programs across the nation. I believe Mike Martin runs a good program and I believe they have great young men in that program. Are they perfect? No. But what program is?

I didnt mean or say arrested baseball players- just arrested athletes in general from FSU-

I guess there is somewhere you could check and see who has the most arrested athletes in the NCAA. I would have no idea where FSU would rank in this area. And I do not see how players arrested in other sports would have any bearing on the baseball program.

What would be a good school?

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
I guess there is somewhere you could check and see who has the most arrested athletes in the NCAA. I would have no idea where FSU would rank in this area. And I do not see how players arrested in other sports would have any bearing on the baseball program.

What would be a good school?

I dont know would be a good schools but I do know per the news reports that last year almost 2 dozen athletes from 9 different sports at FSU were implicated for cheating over the internet.

So,,, I am led to believe that athletes in schools befriend other athletes of the other sports and I am just thinking that this young man will have to be careful as to who his friends are at FSU.

We all know of many schools that are notorious for problems with their football programs- including FSU.

Would be kind of neat I guess to see "who is Number 1" for athletes arrested.

SPS,

Actually an interesting topic if you ask me. So I started it in the general items forum.

Just thought this thread should be more of a positive sort of subject. A comeback story of sorts.

I really enjoyed that HR Display at the All Star game this year. Sure glad Josh Hamilton got all those chances. What a position he is now in to educate and help young people.

Again, don't mistake being critical with being hostile. The hyper-sensitivitiy of many (e.g., "bandit") on the HSBBW is becoming a concern to me. Just because YOU say something, I don't NECESSARILY have to agree with it. This same sort of thing happened on the "Ask About Colleges" Forum. I was critical of the poor facilities and poor support for baseball at GTown, and the following posts were aggressively negative (e.g., "What, did GTown not admit you when you applied. . .") It is perfectly acceptable for a poster to disagree with you.

Now, as for this topic, from the start I wrote that "I am all for second chances. . ." My crticism had to do with the entire range of authority in a kid's life telling him the rules, the, when he breaks them, letting him get the plumb reward while those who abided by those all-important rules get pushed down. THAT is the issue here. I don't hate Tyler Hibbs. I don't even know him. I wish him well.

But let's go back to the main point here. Midlo, PGStaff, bandit--do you not agree that HS players, from the time they start LL, are told, over and over and over, that "these are the rules; if you don't abide by them, you are done"? One of those rules has always been, "Don't use or possess drugs [especially with minors and especially while driving with minors in your car]." Hibbs, by all accounts a great baseball player, broke the law and the rules. The rules EVERYONE who was anyone had told him from the time he started playing the game.

At the same time, thousands of other great kids, with as much, maybe more, maybe less, talent, abided by those rules. They DID NOT get involved with drugs. But they did not get this opportunity to play for FSU when the guy who broke the rules did. THAT is what I am criticizing.

Now, if you think that Hibbs is so far above, talent-wise, these other worthy, law-abiding kids, and want to tip the balance in his favor based on that execeptional talent, they you are free to do so. I don't agree with it. WE CANNOT TELL THESE KIDS, OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN, THAT IF THEY BREAK THE RULES THERE WILL BE DIRE CONSEQUENCES, AND THEN IGNORE THIS WHEN SOMEONE WITH TALENT DOES THE BREAKING. It is not right. It is, in short, hypocritical and dishonest. It is a horrible example of weakness. Not only the kid you think you are helping sees the weakness, but so do all the other kids you repeatedly told the rules to.

I love the Josh Hamilton story. It is great. I want him to remain courageous and strong and on the path to success. The distinction, if there is one, is that there we are talking about professional sports. It is a business and that makes it a little different. In an earlier post, I mentioned PacMan Jones, Plaxico Burress, and Josh Hamilton. I personally think that of these three, only Hamilton has accepted personal responsibility for his failures and is doing all he can to stay off the dope and do the right thing. THAT might allow for an exception, at least in the case of the professional athlete.

Now, I suppose you can say Hibbs has done the same thing. That is great. That will allow him to succeed, provided he stays the course. But in the amateur world, in the world of college sports, the young adults involved are still in the rules-are-sacred mode. It is not supposed to be about money, or winning, or beating up a rival. It is supposed to be about integrity. We always tell the kids that sports reflect great life lessons. And we tell them integrity matters. And we emphasize that abiding by the rules is paramount. And then, when we want THAT kid to be eligible, we make an exception, losing our own integrity. THAT is the problem with what FSU is doing here.

Good luck to Tyler Hibbs. He is now in a position to keep things on track in his life. Good for him. I wish him nothing but the best. I hope we see him in the pros someday.

That said, what do we do about all those youth and high school baseball lectures our coaches give to our kids about not using drugs, not breaking the rules? Is there any integrity behind any of that?

IVW, I certainly don't have a dog in this race, but I would ask a couple of questions. This case involves FSU, but this happens all the time in many big time programs and in the money generating sports of football and basketball.

The marginal player who breaks the rules will not get same treatment as the star player. But, I think this is a case of human nature (survival of the fittest) and the pressure from University Presidents and AD's to win, and win now. It's always about being in the right spot at the right time. Even in pro ball, depending on who drafts a player there are different chances of making it to the bigs.

Finally, I dont think you can use words like integrity in today's world of sports. These words don't mean what they meant to us growing up, and how we tried to instill these virtues in our own children. The way things are going we'll probably see Webster's remove integrity from their dictionary in about 10 years, and replace it with a word that hasn't even been created.

Good thread.

Coach May,
So what price did Tyler pay. He still got to his goal to play at FSU. Sure it might have been rough till he found out he was not going to get into anymore troble than a slap on the had and then FSU tells hin go to this school in FLA and we will give what you wanted after a year when this all blows over. That is what it looks like from the outside looking in.

itsrosy--I appreciate what you say, but if you are right, then I have really wasted alot of speeches to my baseball and basketball players over the last 15 years. But when our national leaders are never held accountable for their lack of integrity, it is hard to explain to a teenager why he should be accountable for his. I remember my own son, as an 8 year old, asking me why Bill Clinton was still President after he lied. That idea--that you can get away with lying--was contrary to everything I had tried to teach him in his young life. But that life lesson probably meant more to him than anything I said.

Now please, no one jump to the conclusion that I am attacking Tyler Hibbs and his integrity. I have no idea about his integrity. I am being critical of the integrity of our athletic leaders--those who preach integrity and that the rules matter, then don't abide by that preaching when to do so would impact a super-talented player.

PGStaff--by the way, I respect PG enormously. It has provided a ton of players the opportunity to be seen and advance their careers. But let me ask--where would you draw the line? I grant you that the Josh Hamilton story is one of success and can be used as an example of how to get oneself right when things are really down. But, for the sake of argument, would it be inspirational if, instead of a drug addiction, a star player was guilty, in court, of selling drugs? Of spouse abuse? Child abuse? Rape? Murder? Just where is the line of forgiveness and second chances?