Well you may be right and to be honest I have not read this entire thread.

Yes they reversed the positions of the runners.

quote:

Not only did the coach cheat, he got his players to buy into it! AND CHEAT.

Can you for CERTAIN say that it was in fact the coach that made the switch? If not, then you need to quit accusing the coach of something he might have done.

I don't think any coach that has coached for any length of time has played the game where there wasn't some attempt at cheating. Of course, that would then depend upon how we all interpret "cheating." I'd suggest that there are also times when mistakes just happened and it gave the appearance of something shady. I found out a long time ago to take care of me and mine. I also learned quickly the teams/coaching staffs that weren't men of integrity. Either I played those teams with a heightened sense of awareness or we got them off the schedule. In the end, the most important thing these young men are learning is about life. Most will not play professionally. They will remember those that taught them to have honor, play hard, know the rules and battle. They will benefit from those kinds of coaches. Some will remember how they were taught to skirt the rules and cheat to get ahead. EVERY COACH HAS TO STEP UP TO THIS REALITY.

There is a distinction of two types of behavior in this thread. A trick play is not cheating. It is trying to fool the other team, usually by deception. Cheating is breaking the rules. Trick plays are part of the game. Cheating is not.

I don't know how this is playing at Mary Lou's diner down in Carbondale, but up here it's getting real old, real fast.

Boy, I miss her peach cobbler.

BULLDOG..

You made me laugh out loud at work and that is hard to do....

AGAIN...two players and a coach all forget what base they were on!, LOL you know and I know this is horse****..you can admit and in fact will probably feel better...saying one of your own has an ethics problem....

Bballdad is also correct, trick plays are not cheating..breaking the rules are and what is worse is telling two 18U kids it is okay to cheat here cause we are losing and need this run.

BULLDOG

another thought...please answer this..I assume you have a son who played or plays...he is on 3rd base and is fast, in fact signed to play D1 outfield and after a pitching change YOUR SON runs to 2nd base...who do you blame....ALL OF THEM, two runners and the coach.... or BULLDOG do you say What the heck?, that coach must not have known where each runner was at?,,,man he needs glasses?. LOL...you cant be serious.

I never said the coach didn't do it. I asked if you were 100% CERTAIN the coach said to do it.. you have not proven that he was without any doubt the one who said to do it. Why? Because you weren't in that huddle.

I also did NOT say it was right because it's NOT.

I do, however, believe somebody should have caught it as it happened.

Now, as to your other assumptions, my guess is you know what "assume" means. You couldn't be any FURTHER off.

I didn't comment on the base runners because from what you originally wrote I couldn't tell what you meant. Now that you explained it, I think it's pretty bush league. I can't believe nobody pointed it out though. Too many coaches try to win win win and don't develop or teach.

One thing I can't stand is when they instantly run for the pitcher or catcher with less than 2-outs. They then put a fast guy on the bases for these runners and it causes a disadvantage, it's a form of cheating but everyone accepts it as a speed up rule. I think it's little league, you can't do that in college so why are we doing it in HS and not teaching these catchers or pitchers how to properly run the bases? Because they just want to get a fast kid on there to steal and try to score him, it's garbage. I don't buy the speed up rules either because it's not hard for a pitcher to go into the dugout to get his mit and most teams have multiple guys on the bench that can warm up the pitcher while the catcher gears up, or the coach can do it.

Nails

If the rules permit it then it isnt cheating

You might not like it but it is not cheating

Nails, you might find this interesting.

My son is a catcher. He was always taken off the base by his previous HS coach. I didn't like it ofr two reasons. First, he was not learning to run the bases. It takes practice to get a good first to third jump. You need to learn to check outfield depth and read the ball off the bat from a different angle. The other reason was he was faster than the guys that replaced him (ran 7.08 at PBR 7.15 at Stevenson). It never made sense to me. I also don't think it speeds up the game as backup catchers can warm the pitcher.

On the other side, he caught every inning of every game his sophomore and junior year, so it made sense to save his legs. But, it was never to put a faster runner in to get an advantage on another team.

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog 19:
I never said the coach didn't do it. I asked if you were 100% CERTAIN the coach said to do it.. you have not proven that he was without any doubt the one who said to do it. Why? Because you weren't in that huddle.

I also did NOT say it was right because it's NOT.

I do, however, believe somebody should have caught it as it happened.

Now, as to your other assumptions, my guess is you know what "assume" means. You couldn't be any FURTHER off.

Stand down young man. All those capital letter comments making you look like you got some pretty big britches. But your probably only 19-20 and talking to adults. How tall are you? I want to see if you have little man's disease.

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:
I don't think any coach that has coached for any length of time has played the game where there wasn't some attempt at cheating. Of course, that would then depend upon how we all interpret "cheating." I'd suggest that there are also times when mistakes just happened and it gave the appearance of something shady. I found out a long time ago to take care of me and mine. I also learned quickly the teams/coaching staffs that weren't men of integrity. Either I played those teams with a heightened sense of awareness or we got them off the schedule. In the end, the most important thing these young men are learning is about life. Most will not play professionally. They will remember those that taught them to have honor, play hard, know the rules and battle. They will benefit from those kinds of coaches. Some will remember how they were taught to skirt the rules and cheat to get ahead. EVERY COACH HAS TO STEP UP TO THIS REALITY.

WELL PLAYED COACH! The reality it seems, is that in both these circumstances the team that attempted the "trick/illegal" plays were trailing. It may well be the threat of a loss to a lesser team prompted the decision to try the play...?

Im certain a power like BR was stunned to be down early to RHS with another scoring threat looming. Thankfully and appropriately, the RHS coach chose to save his top arms for the showcase the next day.

quote:

Originally posted by Play Dog:

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog 19:
I never said the coach didn't do it. I asked if you were 100% CERTAIN the coach said to do it.. you have not proven that he was without any doubt the one who said to do it. Why? Because you weren't in that huddle.

I also did NOT say it was right because it's NOT.

I do, however, believe somebody should have caught it as it happened.

Now, as to your other assumptions, my guess is you know what "assume" means. You couldn't be any FURTHER off.

Stand down young man. All those capital letter comments making you look like you got some pretty big britches. But your probably only 19-20 and talking to adults. How tall are you? I want to see if you have little man's disease.

Who has the britches...? Caps are appropriate in moderation to emphasize importance. It's easy to be misinterpreted sometimes without them (not that it would ever happen on this board).

I think that's a stretch saying it's saving his legs. If they wanted to save his legs they'd give him a day off. Catchers should run, especially in the summer. And more coaches at the HS level should use their entire bench, no reason a catcher should be catching every game the entire year. That's just foolish, you don't need to win that bad, especially games during the week that you can't get other people in the game. Also, what are they on the roster for if you don't trust them to play, far too many kids see less than 10 AB's a year. There might be 3-4 kids that are exceptional on any given HS team but you can't tell me the guys on the bench aren't close or serviceable to give guys days off and get more than 10, ABs. Once again it's just over coaching by alot of guys who mask their shortcomings by doing things like that and trying crazy trick plays that are borderline illegal.

quote:

One thing I can't stand is when they instantly run for the pitcher or catcher with less than 2-outs. They then put a fast guy on the bases for these runners and it causes a disadvantage, it's a form of cheating but everyone accepts it as a speed up rule. I think it's little league, you can't do that in college so why are we doing it in HS and not teaching these catchers or pitchers how to properly run the bases? Because they just want to get a fast kid on there to steal and try to score him, it's garbage.

While I understand your perspective and agree with it, this rule was implemented to maximize participation and not necessarily speed the game up, I too have P/C combination that runs particularly well and will not use the rule. Remember the rule is optional not mandatory. Secondly, as a coach I can tell you that particular players have made our baseball team specifically to fit this role. So as a tool for participation it has added significantly. This is not cheating however, it is specific in it's purpose and well within the confines of the rules. It is no differently than keeping a player for the DH role.

quote:

Originally posted by Traveldad:

quote:

Originally posted by Play Dog:

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog 19:
I never said the coach didn't do it. I asked if you were 100% CERTAIN the coach said to do it.. you have not proven that he was without any doubt the one who said to do it. Why? Because you weren't in that huddle.

I also did NOT say it was right because it's NOT.

I do, however, believe somebody should have caught it as it happened.

Now, as to your other assumptions, my guess is you know what "assume" means. You couldn't be any FURTHER off.

Stand down young man. All those capital letter comments making you look like you got some pretty big britches. But your probably only 19-20 and talking to adults. How tall are you? I want to see if you have little man's disease.

Who has the britches...? Caps are appropriate in moderation to emphasize importance. It's easy to be misinterpreted sometimes without them (not that it would ever happen on this board).

TravelDad, I AGREE! As per the "Britches" of Bulldog19, he's not a little fellow! He has spent more than his fair share of time in the weightroom. He has also been around some coaching legends. One of which, in our area, would include his father. He's also been around his fair share of those that have played professionally and/or coached professional ball.

I think some member show just how little they acutally have read this forum by ASSERTIONS that they have made concerning members who have been associated with this site for a far longer period of time. Just my TWO CENTS WORTH!

This bear repeating:

quote:

Originally posted by bballdad1954:
There is a distinction of two types of behavior in this thread. A trick play is not cheating. It is trying to fool the other team, usually by deception. Cheating is breaking the rules. Trick plays are part of the game. Cheating is not.