quote:

Originally posted by itsinthegame:
More nonsensical BS.

Your wasting our time with this blabber. IMO

What's nonsensical? I asked probably 50 questions about the talent, etc. going to participate at this Pre-Season All America. I was never told eveyone was a future draft pick, I was told players projected to play DI/DII were invited. Perhaps they were more honest with me due to the amount of time I have been around them? It's possible I'm sure.

quote:

Originally posted by itsinthegame:

quote:

Originally posted by JerseyCoach:

Instead your son will be neither

Yeah - tell me all about it Coach.

LOL

Taking things out of context is also a great way to slander.........

quote:

Originally posted by shortstopmom:

quote:

Still, I have heard the same overblown reactions from the same 3 people

Look in the archives Coach.
( that little button up top that says " find " ) Press it and type in your tournament and see what pops up. Theres a heck of alot more opinions than from just three posters.
But we all know that you already know how to do that because you have brought those post-dated threads into today's thread.

Looking for more free promo ( good or bad ) for perhaps a personal invested interest??

I truely question your intentions here.

I see a few negatives, and then I see a few positives (who get blasted for giving the opinion from the same 3 people). Granted I haven't checked them all, but it seems like a common trend. Hardly a decent sample.

I do have personal invested interests...my players and family. I like to hope we are making correct decisions. If I turn out to be wrong with all of this...I am screwing a lot of kids and their families.

quote:

I apologize for believing someone with the name "PGSTAFF" would be biased. How silly of me

How silly of ME, but that doesn't sound like much of an apology at all!

quote:

Still, I have heard the same overblown reactions from the same 3 people.

JerseyCoach,

You are very shifty!... Biased about what in this thread???? I still haven't mentioned anything about the event you're talking about. I wouldn't have posted in this thread at all except wanting to correct something "larrythompson" had posted. Then YOU ran with it and when someone posted their thoughts you called them a liar!

BTW, there have been nine or ten people who have posted their thoughts here, not just three people. I have yet to offer any opinions or reactions, one way or the other, about the event you brought up. Personally, my reactions have nothing to do with the subject. It's only YOU and YOU alone that bothers me and I don't consider those comments made about you as being overblown at all.

quote:

do apologize SSMOM, I just really couldn't buy the idea that they sent $3500 invitations to you, and $799 invitations to the rest of us. I honeslty have also never seen more than 60 players at a tryout. Maybe it's different wherever you live...if it is...I really do apologize. (Like I said, my experience has given me a bias as I'm sure yours has as well)

You came on here two days ago for the first time, ( March 07,2008 ) and 14 posts later you managed to call one poster a liar and insulted/dismissed several others.

I welcome your opinion, your questions, and your convictions. What I take offense to is your approach. I would be less than honest if I didnt tell you that I question your true intentions and motivations behind your postings. I'm just not convinced you dont have a personal invested interest.

Time will tell.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:

quote:

I apologize for believing someone with the name "PGSTAFF" would be biased. How silly of me

How silly of ME, but that doesn't sound like much of an apology at all!

quote:

Still, I have heard the same overblown reactions from the same 3 people.

JerseyCoach,

You are very shifty!... Biased about what in this thread???? I still haven't mentioned anything about the event you're talking about. I wouldn't have posted in this thread at all except wanting to correct something "larrythompson" had posted. Then YOU ran with it and when someone posted their thoughts you called them a liar!

BTW, there have been nine or ten people who have posted their thoughts here, not just three people. I have yet to offer any opinions or reactions, one way or the other, about the event you brought up. Personally, my reactions have nothing to do with the subject. It's only YOU and YOU alone that bothers me and I don't consider those comments made about you as being overblown at all.

Very touchy for someone who doesn't care. Who am I that I can make you this upset by using you as an example for the lack of diverse opinions?

quote:

Originally posted by shortstopmom:

quote:

do apologize SSMOM, I just really couldn't buy the idea that they sent $3500 invitations to you, and $799 invitations to the rest of us. I honeslty have also never seen more than 60 players at a tryout. Maybe it's different wherever you live...if it is...I really do apologize. (Like I said, my experience has given me a bias as I'm sure yours has as well)

You came on here two days ago for the first time, ( March 07,2008 ) and 14 posts later you managed to call one poster a liar and insulted/dismissed several others.

I welcome your opinion, your questions, and your convictions. What I take offense to is your approach. I would be less than honest if I didnt tell you that I question your true intentions and motivations behind your postings. I'm just not convinced you dont have a personal invested interest.

Time will tell.

It's funny, I had been thinking the same thing about you. There is NO WAY someone can be this opposed to a reputable organization without vested interest elsewhere.

quote:

do have personal invested interests...my players and family. I like to hope we are making correct decisions. If I turn out to be wrong with all of this...I am screwing a lot of kids and their families

Man,..I do hope you are sincere. Looking at the way you have handled yourself here today on this thread.....
Time will tell.

quote:

There is NO WAY someone can be this opposed to a reputable organization without vested interest elsewhere.

Neener-neener....good grief.
Am I writing to an adult?

To get things straight:
I am not opposed to the organization in any way shape or form. Go back and re-read coach.

I am opposed to your lack of manners.

I am glad your son had a good experience. I even added to that, and mentioned of another I know who has also had a good experience. I know of two good experiences and I put them out there. I enjoy hearing about good experiences,...if there are more I'd be glad to read about them.

You brought up our personal experience from the tryout camp from a post-dated post.
Not me.
Dont like my opinion about it?
Then you probably shouldnt have brought it up.

Your apology didnt last long did it?

Feel free to hit your ignore button anytime.

Welcome to the HSBBW.
I've said my piece.

I have no interest in any of the organizations.

I have nothing generally against the sponsors of the UA event. In fact, I have taken my son to at least one of their very highest profile events and we generally enjoyed it.

I am a parent. You asked parents to answer your questions. I answered them, but you didn't like the answers I gave, so you proceeded to completely lose it -- with me and everyone else who tried simply to converse with you.

As far as your doing any disservice to your players, my thoughts are these:

If you told them this might be a decent event for exposure, you may well have been correct. We never went, so I can't say.

If you told them this was a neat way for them to put the "All-American" label on their resume, then I think you may well have done them a disservice. I think recruiters know what this event is and is not, and any kid who claims to be an All American based on this event is not fooling anyone.

And to the extent the kids (or their families) themselves got fooled, I do hold the event sponsors responsible for that.

quote:

Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
I have no interest in any of the organizations.

I have nothing generally against the sponsors of the UA event. In fact, I have taken my son to at least one of their very highest profile events and we generally enjoyed it.

I am a parent. You asked parents to answer your questions. I answered them, but you didn't like the answers I gave, so you proceeded to completely lose it -- with me and everyone else who tried simply to converse with you.

As far as your doing any disservice to your players, my thoughts are these:

If you told them this might be a decent event for exposure, you may well have been correct. We never went, so I can't say.

If you told them this was a neat way for them to put the "All-American" label on their resume, then I think you may well have done them a disservice. I think recruiters know what this event is and is not, and any kid who claims to be an All American based on this event is not fooling anyone.

And to the extent the kids (or their families) themselves got fooled, I do hold the event sponsors responsible for that.

I do appreciate the response Midlo. I thought I had said NUMEROUS times now that this event was not for players who wanted to be on a "list". To me it was obvious after reading what was involved in the tournament and asking questions ad nauseum about the talent, attending scouts, coaches, tournament setup, etc. exactly what a "Pre-Season All America" was. That is why I started the thread, to seperate the difference. No one deserves to be fooled, and no one here can control the naming of the event. That doesn't mean it can't be a VERY beneficial experience for your average college ballplayer. I agree with you, and have been saying what you just said all along.

The only thing I was opposed to in your first post was the thinking that it is so wrong to have to "buy" the honor of being a Pre-Season All American. My example was that you can't call yourself an MIT student just because you are intelligent enough to be accepted. Not much in life is free, except if your son is in the top %1 of players.

Here's where you jumped the rails.

If your son wants to tell people that he was accepted to MIT, that may sound defensive to those who hear it, but it's truthful and if he thinks it helps him, he can say that. But you can't represent yourself as if you are an MIT grad unless you attend classes there, pass them and meet the graduation requirements. And yes, that may cost some money, but pretty much everything worthwhile in life requires some sacrifice. If you choose to go a route that requires less sacrifice, then you have to accept that you made a sacrifice and what that means is there are going to be things you miss out on, like getting to call yourself an MIT grad.

The Little League All Star parallel you drew was silly. Little League costs next to nothing, at least around here, plus they have a program for waiving even their nominal fees for those truly in need. And at least in my experience you don't buy your way onto the All Star team, you have to earn it at least in the eyes of the decision makers.

The Legion parallel you drew similarly missed the point. Only those guys who were on that team got to say they were state champions. That's because only they did the work that got them there. They didn't become state champions because the Legion organization quoted a fee for the right to have the trophy. They won it on the field.

There are several organizations that post All American lists, both preseason and post season. To my knowledge, the UA event is the only one that directly links your being labeled All American to whether or not you pay a fee, which to my recollection was $799 (though that did not include travel expense, which was considerable). You can question the methods used by each respective organization to come up with their lists, and I'm sure there are kids who are overlooked at times. But generally speaking, the All American moniker is doled out based on someone's assessment of merit, with this one exception.

What I hear in some of your statements is the sorry excuse that so many people make, that they think things like the Perfect Game rankings, etc. are pretty much only for rich kids who can afford all those PG events. The problem with that line of thinking is that it is born of ignorance and envy, not reality.

I have gotten to see many of PG's most highly ranked players in action the past few years. Some of them come from wealthy or high income families, but many absolutely do not. What they share in common is a willingness to make the sacrifice to go where they need to go to get better, to get evaluated and to show their stuff.

You do not have to attend a PG showcase to get a PG ranking. Obviously it helps, since they can only rank those they see, but they scout other events, too. In my own son's case, he received a very high PG rating and ranking before he ever attended a single PG showcase -- before we ever wrote a single check to PG. We did attend I think 4 WWBA events, plus USA Baseball's Junior Olympics, but we did that by placing our son on a team that had the players work concession stands at youth tournaments to raise all the money for the team's expenses. I'm not here to cry the blues about the cost of it all, because I'm personally doing OK financially. But I can assure you that several of our teammates are not wealthy in the least. They use credit card points to travel; they stay in extended stay motels; they share rooms with others; they send their kids with other families and the parents stay home to work. And several of these players received very high PG rankings. (We had a pretty loaded team, talent wise.)

And BTW, PGStaff is the head honcho at PG. If you would learn more about PG events and maybe take part in a few, you would get to meet him personally, as I have many times. Probably no one person has done more for my son, and many other people's sons, than this man. So when you come on here accusing him of being biased and basically running him down when you obviously don't know what you're talking about and you have some axe to grind, the impression you leave behind is that we should all take up a collection to send you to a Dale Carnegie course.

And with that, I'm off this thread permanently.

IMO, if the organization does what it says it is going to do, then it is legitimate. If a person chooses to pay $3500 to send their kid to a showcase tournament, then that was their choice. If they sent them and didn't check it out first to see if you actually get what you pay for, well...then they got what they paid for. I would think PG would admit that not every top player has been to a Perfect Game event and maybe it was because they couldn't afford the price. It could be because the haven't heard of Perfect Game, I hadn't until 2 years ago. Maybe it's because their Parents don't feel it's neccessary, maybe it is and maybe it isn't. The one thing I do know, is that Perfect Game does what they say they are going to do and that is give the players exposure to college and pro scouts. I expect Baseball Factory does the same thing or Under Armour wouldn't attach it's name to their event. I really don't have a problem with what they call their event either since no one organization can say they have seen ALL of the players that should be on any All American list. All it really takes is for a player to play well on the right stage and there they go! Right now, Perfect Game happens to have the biggest stages.

One more point, who's to say (since it's a PRE SEASON event) that some of those kids won't end up being All Americans?

I would kind of like to know where both organizations got the names and how they arrived at the lists.

The All-American title means something if you earn it.

It means nothing if you pay for it.

quote:

Originally posted by itsinthegame:
The All-American title means something if you earn it.

It means nothing if you pay for it.

Must have meant something to the coach who recruited my son at the tournament

The world is an interesting place - isnt it?

Buying recognition is OK for some - and not OK for others.

Just the way it is.

If someone told me they would make my son an All-American - if I paid them - I think I would puke all over them. LOL

quote:

Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
Here's where you jumped the rails.

If your son wants to tell people that he was accepted to MIT, that may sound defensive to those who hear it, but it's truthful and if he thinks it helps him, he can say that. But you can't represent yourself as if you are an MIT grad unless you attend classes there, pass them and meet the graduation requirements. And yes, that may cost some money, but pretty much everything worthwhile in life requires some sacrifice. If you choose to go a route that requires less sacrifice, then you have to accept that you made a sacrifice and what that means is there are going to be things you miss out on, like getting to call yourself an MIT grad.

And with that, I'm off this thread permanently.

I know you said you were gone "permanantly" from here but I hope you come back to explain how the MIT scenario is any different from the pre-season All-America.

It makes sense if the players invited to the Pre-Season All America did nothing to earn it. If you can simply write a check and attend, then OK...that is REALLY messed up. If that is happening, it's VERY wrong. I don't know, but I think a DI/DII talent player has earned something. The best may not be able to attend due to financials, and it is no different with colleges all accross the country. You pay for the name on the degree, and not the quality of the education at the majority of Colleges/Universities. Is it fair that some of the more intelligent scholars cannot afford to "earn" a more prestigious degree? Maybe not, which is why MIT has now...(a little late) offered increased scholarships to lower income families. They, however, are one of the few with the endowment to make that possible.

quote:

Originally posted by itsinthegame:
The world is an interesting place - isnt it?

Buying recognition is OK for some - and not OK for others.

Just the way it is.

If someone told me they would make my son an All-American - if I paid them - I think I would puke all over them. LOL

Would you pay for a Harvard degree (say your son was a "legacy", academics don't seem to matter much for them), or would CC be fine since it's free? Either could teach you just as much....what are people paying for at Harvard?

What the hell does your hypothetical questions have to do with an organization that bestows "All-American" status on you if you pay them?

Like I said - I would puke.

Enough of this assanine topic for me.

quote:

Originally posted by itsinthegame:
What the hell does your hypothetical questions have to do with an organization that bestows "All-American" status on you if you pay them?

Like I said - I would puke.

Enough of this assanine topic for me.

Is it assinine because you know that people pay for the name on a diploma, and not the means by which they earn it? I guess the honesty behind that is hard for people to take in.