I've been a "viewer" for a while and it annoys me to see the legitamacy of the Under Armour PRE-SEASON All America questioned. My son participated knowing full well that this is not an "All-America" game, it is a PRE-SEASON tournament, instruction, and player development camp. My son received video, instruction, tournament play, Under Armour gear, and a great baseball experience. In no way should this be compared to the Aflak game. No one is claiming "pre-season" all-americans to be top draft picks. Realistically, most players are not going to be drafted. The reason there are 200 "no-names" on the list is because recruiting is more than finding the studs, but all about helping players who just want to play at the next level. I repeat- MOST PLAYERS ARE NOT GOING PRO.
If you are going to compare this event with the Aflak game then you need to be educated. The Aflak game should be compared to the Under-Armour All America (Formerly the Cape Cod Classic). Notice how this does not say PRE-SEASON. The Under Armour All America will be later this year and will be a FREE event for the top players in the country.
To me an All-American would be the best of the best, a select few. It is a term that is earned not bought. I think that was the biggest complaint about the UA title. You could be an All-American simply by playing (and paying) for BaseballFactory or whoever was the organizer.
Your name implies that you are a coach in New Jersey. You might be. Or maybe not. Since I try to see things in a positive light, I'll go along with the thought that you are what your name implies.
Experience has shown me that the title Under-Armour Pre-Season All_American does not include the top players. Rather it is a purchased title that is not necessarily bestowed on the best of the best. To me, that is misleading and therefore illegitimate.
It sounds like your son got a lot of benefits from his participation with the event. That's great. But, I can't help wondering why they had to call it All-American when the participants know full well that it's not. It's a catchy name but the tournament is not what it implies.
Have fun!
Posts: 971 | Location: Left Out | Registered: January 03, 2007
Congrats on #500 and thank you for the welcome. Obviously, the term "All-America" is a marketing tool. I don't think anyone is denying that fact. The truth is however that this was a tournament titled the "Under Armour Pre-Season All-America Tournament". I don't remember my son receiving recognition as an "All-American", but rather a participant in said tournament. I would have liked costs to be lower, who wouldn't? I understand that it isn't charity though. It's a once in a lifetime opportunity to play in one of the best TOURNAMENTS of the year. This was a tournament. The players listed were part of a roster, they were not "All Americans". You will see "All Americans" in August in the Under-Armour All America game. If you don't do the research and seperate the difference between a tournament and an All-American game than that's your problem.
Posts: 32 | Location: - | Registered: March 07, 2008
Originally posted by infidel_08: Welcome, JerseyCoach.
How do you describe an All-American?
To me an All-American would be the best of the best, a select few. It is a term that is earned not bought. I think that was the biggest complaint about the UA title. You could be an All-American simply by playing (and paying) for BaseballFactory or whoever was the organizer.
Your name implies that you are a coach in New Jersey. You might be. Or maybe not. Since I try to see things in a positive light, I'll go along with the thought that you are what your name implies.
Experience has shown me that the title Under-Armour Pre-Season All_American does not include the top players. Rather it is a purchased title that is not necessarily bestowed on the best of the best. To me, that is misleading and therefore illegitimate.
It sounds like your son got a lot of benefits from his participation with the event. That's great. But, I can't help wondering why they had to call it All-American when the participants know full well that it's not. It's a catchy name but the tournament is not what it implies.
Does that mean that PG's WORLD Wood Bat Championship would be false advertising as well? I mean is it really marketed to and participated by teams from all over the WORLD?
We have a place down the road called All-American Pizza...but I have no expectation that they are a conglomeration of the top pizza makers in the nation. It is eye catching...a marketing tool. Isn't that what business is about?
Posts: 744 | Location: Mt. Airy, MD, USA | Registered: December 28, 2003
If you don't do the research and seperate the difference between a tournament and an All-American game than that's your problem.
But then you go on to say:
quote:
it annoys me to see the legitamacy of the Under Armour PRE-SEASON All America questioned.
You're annoyed at the legitimacy of the tournament being questioned, yet you tell us its our responsiblity to educate ourselves, and when we do so and the feedback is not overwhelmingly positive,...who/what exactly is causing your annoyance?
quote:
My son received video, instruction, tournament play, Under Armour gear, and a great baseball experience.
Not sure how much you paid to receive all of the above, but when we were contacted, the price tag was around $3,500.00+,...plus airfare. The video was an additional cost.
You admitted it yourself:
quote:
Obviously, the term "All-America" is a marketing tool.
You call it a marketing tool. I call it " questionable " and even possibly " misleading ".
I dont think the criticism is directed at the quality of the tournament, but rather to the " name " of the tournament.
Why not just call it the " Under Armour Baseball Classic " ? That way no " marketing tool " is necessary and the reputation ( along with the cost of the tournament ), can stand on its own two feet.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ " Play both sports until the competition convinces you otherwise!! " " ...because baseball is just GOOD PRACTICE FOR LIFE ".
Posts: 2968 | Location: Kansas | Registered: March 18, 2006
We have a place down the road called All-American Pizza...but I have no expectation that they are a conglomeration of the top pizza makers in the nation.
Yes,..but a $19.99 pizza,...located down the road,...( that you can personally go look at while perhaps you are pumping gas into your car ),.... is a little more well known and familiar item to the general public than a $3500.00+ baseball tournament located in another state.
Big difference.
Larry Thompson:
quote:
Does that mean that PG's WORLD Wood Bat Championship would be false advertising as well?
No. PG's WORLD Wood Bat Championship tournament name doesnt mislead the consumer to the " idea " that the participants will be titled a
" WORLD Wood Bat "
if they play in the tournament.
( Thank goodness. Not sure how effective that would be. )
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ " Play both sports until the competition convinces you otherwise!! " " ...because baseball is just GOOD PRACTICE FOR LIFE ".
Posts: 2968 | Location: Kansas | Registered: March 18, 2006
By larrythompson... Does that mean that PG's WORLD Wood Bat Championship would be false advertising as well? I mean is it really marketed to and participated by teams from all over the WORLD?
Larry, The answer to your question is YES, to your second question and NO to the first question! If you've ever been at that event, you would know that there have been teams there from Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Canada, Venezuela, and it is open to any team in the World who would qualify as a top team. There have been players from the countries listed above as well as several others including players from Japan, Korea, Australia, Europe, Columbia, Cuba, Mexico and other parts of the WORLD!
I don't understand what your point is at all or why we would be involved in this discussion.
But seeing that you brought us up, our Preseason All American team will be released by Rawlings this week. Here is a story about the results of our preseason All America list from last year if anyone cares to look at it for any reason. High School Senior All Americans 2007
Posts: 4813 | Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa | Registered: December 27, 2002
This is a topic that's already been beat to death so I won't belabor the point.
Suffice it to say, the big gripe with the Under Armour event is that it puts the "All American" moniker up for sale, instead of awarding it to those who earn recognition on the field.
Kids who are invited first, who decline to pay to attend, are taken off the list and receive no recognition whatsoever. Meanwhile, after the first round of declines, new kids are invited. If they pay, they become All Americans while the kids chosen ahead of them are not named.
I don't think anyone would object to someone holding a January showcase and charging for it. Go or don't as you see fit. But the approach to selling the All American label rubs a lot of people the wrong way, myself included.
Posts: 2425 | Location: Virginia | Registered: February 01, 2006
TO SAVE ALL OF US A LITTLE EXTRA BREATH AND FINGERS FROM WEAR AND TEAR...PERHAPS THE JERSEY COACH AND OTHERS WHO ARE SMITTEN BY THIS "UNDER ARMOUR" BUG CAN GO TO THE LINK BELOW AND SEE HOW WE'VE HASHED THIS OUT BEFORE...ALLOWING THE REST OF US TO GIVE OUR 2 CENTS ELSEWHERE...
The funniest thing about this is that parents/players are so worried about this "list". I clicked that link and the first thing I see is... "Since we're not attending, is he not an All-American"? The answer is pretty simple...he was not an "All-American" either way, you were talented enough to be selected to participate in the PRE-Season All-America tournament. I had no idea people even checked that roster. It was all about the opportunity to let my son play in a nice tournament with players who may not be "studs", but will be playing at a high level in college. My son will play small DI. For us, it was a wonderful opportunity with realistic expectations. My son is nowhere near good enough to be selected for the actual Under Armour All-American game, but it was still quite the experience for him to play against other quality kids and future DI/DII players. Personally, I think it's great that more than just the top 30 or so players have the opportunity to play in an "All-America" event. The "studs" are not the ones who need the exposure, instruction, and acccolades. They will be found, they will be drafted. Like I've said before, most kids are not studs and will not do much past college ball. If you're going to gripe about paying $800 (not $3500 like soneone said) for your child to play in a baseball tournament he will remember for the rest of his life, enjoy the loans for your sons $30,000 tuition. Because guess what, most kids are not getting scholarships, and most kids aren't going pro. I would love to hear from a player that attended, and did not enjoy this experience. Go ahead and gripe about marketing tools all you want,it's a shame you can't see the tournament for what it is.
Posts: 32 | Location: - | Registered: March 07, 2008
I mentioned it briefly, but could a parent let me know why they are interested in the Pre-Season All-Americans published by Rawlings? I am trying to figure out the fascination with these lists. Does it give an organization legitamacy that they were able to see enough players to find draft picks that they can publish for you? Do that many of you actually believe your son is someday going to make that list? It would be nice to know what the percentage of players on the list is compared to the number of players PG sees per year. I get the feeling that Under Armour could just go ahead and print names of the best players in the country, but I'm not sure how that helps the average player.
Posts: 32 | Location: - | Registered: March 07, 2008
I think it would be considered human nature to take pride in your child's being given an honor, by a reputable organization, based entirely on merit (i.e., an evaluation of talent, however subjective it may be).
I think it's a lot different when the honor is allocated based on who pays and who does not.
I would have thought this was clear from the earlier discussion, but it appears you have an axe to grind on this issue and are not being particularly objective.
Posts: 2425 | Location: Virginia | Registered: February 01, 2006
JerseyCoach, If it was only about getting a scholarship we could have saved the money we've spent on baseball and paid for college several times over. It is about getting your son the chance to continue playing baseball at whatever level he best fits. If he can get a scholarship that's great but there's no way we haven't all paid out more for tournaments, equipment, travel and showcases than we'll ever get from a scholarship.
BTW, I could care less what they call the tournament. Most people know what it is and what it isn't. I don't think any college coaches are getting fooled by the title so the kids who are talented enough will be recognized regardless of the title. And as far as studs go I think any kid headed for playing D1 ball is a stud.
Posts: 4703 | Location: Southern CA, USA | Registered: January 02, 2003
Originally posted by CADad: JerseyCoach, If it was only about getting a scholarship we could have saved the money we've spent on baseball and paid for college several times over. It is about getting your son the chance to continue playing baseball at whatever level he best fits. If he can get a scholarship that's great but there's no way we haven't all paid out more for tournaments, equipment, travel and showcases than we'll ever get from a scholarship.
BTW, I could care less what they call the tournament. Most people know what it is and what it isn't. I don't think any college coaches are getting fooled by the title so the kids who are talented enough will be recognized regardless of the title. And as far as studs go I think any kid headed for playing D1 ball is a stud.
CADAD: I mostly agree
Midlo:
How do you propose the tournament's be financed? I also paid for my son to play Legion ball. Should he not be proud of his state championship because we were fortunate enough to finance his participation on a good team while others cannot?
My son also fundraised nearly $600 of his costs for the pre-season. We are by no means well off. Seems the only people with a gripe are freightened of "the business". Name a situation where financials aren't an impact on a players recognition. You could start with by telling the players in Camden, NJ High Schools who can't afford a field why they are having trouble being recognized.
Posts: 32 | Location: - | Registered: March 07, 2008
Originally posted by Midlo Dad: You need to towel off. You're ranting, and quite frankly, you're not addressing the point. The other situations you cite are not remotely comparable.
I'm not ranting, just asking questions. Still waiting for answers...funny how there are none. I guess all players in little league labeled as "All-Stars" because they can afford to play on the team really are "All-Stars". WHat's your definition of an All-Star?
Posts: 32 | Location: - | Registered: March 07, 2008
I didn’t say one word about the event your son attended. My reply was to something larrythompson posted that referred to Perfect Game. I wouldn’t have posted anything on this subject had our name not been mentioned and if it wasn’t mentioned incorrectly.
However, to answer your question. I imagine the Rawlings Pre-Season All American list is not of any great interest to parents unless their son is included. However, it appears (by the responses we get) that the colleges these players will be attending are very interested. FWIW, they sometime like to use that information when describing their freshman class. I had a recruiting coordinator from a present top 10 ranked college send a long detailed email about the importance of their recruits being on these lists. It helps them in several ways in the high pressure world of recruiting.
To answer your other questions… The list represents a very small percentage of the players we have seen. Like everything else, any legitimacy is based on the results of the list, not just the list itself. There are many lists and many events, then there are the results and the results are not the same!
While there are many ways to help the average player, the Rawlings All American and All Regional lists are not something meant to help the average player. It is geared towards recognizing the best players in the country based on our opinion. Nothing more… Nothing less! Players identified receive nothing but recognition and some type of award that Rawlings sends them.
Once again, none of this has anything to do with this thread that you started. I only posted because PG was brought up for some reason and the information posted was incorrect.
I’m glad you and your son enjoyed the experience. Best of luck to him.
Posts: 4813 | Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa | Registered: December 27, 2002
I didn’t say one word about the event your son attended. My reply was to something larrythompson posted that referred to Perfect Game. I wouldn’t have posted anything on this subject had our name not been mentioned and if it wasn’t mentioned incorrectly.
However, to answer your question. I imagine the Rawlings Pre-Season All American list is not of any great interest to parents unless their son is included. However, it appears (by the responses we get) that the colleges these players will be attending are very interested. FWIW, they sometime like to use that information when describing their freshman class. I had a recruiting coordinator from a present top 10 ranked college send a long detailed email about the importance of their recruits being on these lists. It helps them in several ways in the high pressure world of recruiting.
To answer your other questions… The list represents a very small percentage of the players we have seen. Like everything else, any legitimacy is based on the results of the list, not just the list itself. There are many lists and many events, then there are the results and the results are not the same!
While there are many ways to help the average player, the Rawlings All American and All Regional lists are not something meant to help the average player. It is geared towards recognizing the best players in the country based on our opinion. Nothing more… Nothing less! Players identified receive nothing but recognition and some type of award that Rawlings sends them.
Once again, none of this has anything to do with this thread that you started. I only posted because PG was brought up for some reason and the information posted was incorrect.
I’m glad you and your son enjoyed the experience. Best of luck to him.
I didn't mean to offend you. I didn't realize we couldn't involve multiple discussions in one thread. I don't have any problem with the Rawlings list, I am just trying to understand why "lists" are so important. I do thank you for an honest answer, even though I was hoping to hear it from a parent.
To be on the Rawlings list is a great honor. Basically my understanding from your post is that the list benefits the players included greatly. The problem is that probably 90+% (probably closer to 95+%) of players who are going to play in college will never be on such a list. They need to take other steps. The Pre-Season All America was packed with talent. Maybe not MLB talent, but kids who are going to go on and play ball. The fact that hundreds of kids were given this opportunity is great. I feel bad for the kids who it was financially impossible for, but throughout life they will learn that is a common theme. They will never have an opportunity like this again.
I had another son get accepted to MIT. He played no sports and wasn't offered much help financially. We weighed the options and decided it would be more realistic/beneficial to attend an in state Univeristy. Does he still get to call himself an MIT student because he was accepted? Really ask yourself how this process is any different from Pre-Season All America selection. You tryout (apply) and hope to be invited. If possible, you attend.
Posts: 32 | Location: - | Registered: March 07, 2008
