ORLANDO--Somewhere between the fire and brimstone raining down from the podium at the American Baseball Coaches Association Division I business meeting, the message started to set in with coaches throughout the huge conference room at the Marriott World Center convention center: Major changes are needed in college baseball's academic culture.
Discussion of the NCAA's sobering Academic Progress Rate (APR) dominated the meeting and carried on throughout the weekend at the 2007 ABCA convention. Coaches who might have harbored hope that the APR would just go away quietly were left to face the unpleasant reality that many programs are going to have to drastically change the way they do business, or else face dire consequences.
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I'm so sorry, this is a very interesting thread, but it was pointed out to me that the article is most likely protected by Baseball America's copyright / subscription requirement.
I left the first two paragraphs above (at least temporarily), as this might be considered some free advertising for Baseball America's subscription based service, but I felt obligated to delete the balance of the article.
If anyone finds out that we DO have permission to post the whole article, please let me know!
Julie jas@pclink.com
"You see, you spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball, and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time"
With the ways things are now players just don't have the time in the spring to take the classes they do in the fall and if they want more classes than give baseball more schlorships football and basketball players are on full schlorship why not baseball
Originally posted by WPirate02: With the ways things are now players just don't have the time in the spring to take the classes they do in the fall and if they want more classes than give baseball more schlorships football and basketball players are on full schlorship why not baseball
It's called revenue.........and college baseball doesn't bring it into universities.
Posts: 1441 | Location: Desktop | Registered: August 02, 2004
College baseball is a revenue loser for eveyone involved - the schools, the players, and the parents. For whatever reason the NCAA has not been able to promote the sport at the college level to the extent for the majority of colleges to be able to make money off this sport. This is in spite of the fact that the interest generated over the past 10 years by ESPN televising the Collge World Series has helped to at least let the general public know that baseball IS played at the collgiate level.
Not only do the schools not make any money with the sport the majority of parents actually have to pay at least some portion of their kids' tuition even though they are a "scholarship" athlete on a D-1 baseball team. That scenario is completely foreign to parents of football or basketball players. In some respects D-1 college baseball is like a very expensive "select" team.
I wonder what it will take to make baseball a positive cash flow sport for most universities.
Steve Shore
Posts: 319 | Location: NE Texas | Registered: March 17, 2004
I wonder what it will take to make baseball a positive cash flow sport for most universities.
Corporate sponsors who believe the sport is attractive to the fan would be a start.
College baseball could gain some fan base if they recieve regular scheduled TV time. But putting it on TV for 1 week out of the year will only wet the whistle for a bit.
Also, most of your long lasting successful programs are not considered big time universities.........
i.e. Cal State Fullerton, Wichita State, Rice
Not saying these programs don't deserve respect, but they just don't have the alumn to produce a huge following which in turn will produce revenue.
If Ohio State, Texas, Michigan, USC, North Carolina, Miami, Florida, and Penn State were in the CWS each year for the next 10 years, you might have a chance of College baseball becoming a big time attraction.
Until then, your on the money about it just being one expensive select team.
Posts: 1441 | Location: Desktop | Registered: August 02, 2004
I am not sure you can equate the football powers with the baseball powers---different species each
I think you missed the point. If you have these schools, which have a huge fan base due to large enrollment and alumns............there is the ability to create revenue. If we agree that college baseball is not a major player because it's inability to create revenue, I don't think you can excuse my point.
Why do you think there are very few of the Gonzaga's or Boise States of the world in NCAA Football or Basketball? Because most of the revenue generated are by schools with a huge fan and alumn base.
quote:
Get corporate entities involved and it spells trouble , at least in my mind---they will tend to control what happens --
Well that may be true, but why don't you think there is a playoff system in place for College football?
Because it would take away too much $$$ from NCAA and your big time sports wouldn't be so big time.
Posts: 1441 | Location: Desktop | Registered: August 02, 2004
I've always have said: (given the perfect baseball world) Give the baseball program 25 to 30+ scholarships and college baseball will grow like a wildfire.
Think of all the borderline pro players (top level college player) that go on to the minors, because the college offer just isn't enough to get a kid to go to school. I think that if a kid isn't a top 3rd or4th round draft choice (or just isn't college material) they'd go to college for a full scholarship.
Therefore, improved players should equal more interest by more, for college ball. The competition level should rise and it would be more fun to watch. I feel, that even in the current situation, a little more TV and it would take off. I think people are getting tired of the pro athletes attitudes and actions. I fear that a downswing of baseball is eminent if the market doesn’t expand some.
Originally posted by obrady: I've always have said: (given the perfect baseball world) Give the baseball program 25 to 30+ scholarships and college baseball will grow like a wildfire.
Think of all the borderline pro players (top level college player) that go on to the minors, because the college offer just isn't enough to get a kid to go to school. I think that if a kid isn't a top 3rd or4th round draft choice (or just isn't college material) they'd go to college for a full scholarship.
Therefore, improved players should equal more interest by more, for college ball. The competition level should rise and it would be more fun to watch. I feel, that even in the current situation, a little more TV and it would take off. I think people are getting tired of the pro athletes attitudes and actions. I fear that a downswing of baseball is eminent if the market doesn’t expand some.
I agree with most of your points, except for a few.
You mention if the top players in the country went to college vs. professional baseball there would be more intrest.
I disagree because the general college fan base does not have knowledge of the "blue chip" players coming out of high school. They simply pull for their alma mater and hope for bragging rights.
Also, regarding pro athletes and their public perception. Looking at the revenue MLB is creating does not suggest the majority of fans are disgusted.
Luxery boxes and corporate sponsors is the prominent provider for major sports.
For that matter, this may be evident in NCAA sports as well. Don't know of too many NCAA baseball facilities that allow this execpt for maybe Arkansas. And maybe that's why Arkansas draws so well.
Posts: 1441 | Location: Desktop | Registered: August 02, 2004
My problem with college baseball is that the games have become unwatchable. Four hour games are not that uncommon (at least in the Pac-10), and as much as I love baseball I hate watching coaches micromanage a game to the point of exhaustion.
If you expand baseball scholarships to 25, you will see certain "baseball powers" suck up a lot more of the talent pool; you will see many currently competitive schools fall back in the pack; and you will see some schools stop playing baseball entirely.
The reason there's a cap on baseball scholarships is to keep this from happening. The cap is a response to the reality that most schools could not fund that many scholarships and thus, the playing field would not be anywhere near as level as it is right now.
It has only been in recent years that some of the schools around here have stepped up their funding to improve facilities, pay coaches more, and fund the full 11.7. And a lot of D-1's around here still don't meet those goals.
Yeah, more players would get full rides, and I have to admit I wish we could look forward to one of those (we can't). But last year, when VMI went down to Auburn and took 2 of 3 ... would that still happen in a universe of 25 scholarships? I doubt it.
One good thing about giving out fractional scholarships, too: If a coach is telling you how much he loves you, you can measure whether he means it or not by whether he's putting his money where his mouth is. In football, players are promised the moon, and then they wind up spending 4 years on the bench or on special teams, when they could've played for somebody else if they'd only known where they really stood. In baseball, you have to know going in there's a difference between the guy getting 70% and the guy getting 20%. And if one school is offering you 30% while another is offering 50%, that's an objective indication of what they really think about you.
Posts: 2425 | Location: Virginia | Registered: February 01, 2006
Originally posted by deemax: My problem with college baseball is that the games have become unwatchable. Four hour games are not that uncommon (at least in the Pac-10), and as much as I love baseball I hate watching coaches micromanage a game to the point of exhaustion.
Agree completely. That has been one of my gripes with MLB for years now.
I can understand someone saying that the mega schools dominating baseball might increase baseball revenue. Yet the fact that almost small schools manage to make it to Omaha is one of the things I love about college baseball. Wouldn't want to trade that away. However, I don't believe increasing the 'ships to 20-25 would necessarily change that.
"Show me a guy who won't pitch inside and I'll show you a loser" Sandy Koufax
Posts: 4133 | Location: Texas, USA | Registered: June 02, 2003
I have always thought one reason why college baseball is not as popular is because it conflicts with the potential fan base time.
Little league, Junior High, and High School players and their families can not get to the games because their practices or games are at the same time. The high school players and families may be able to make one of the weekend games, but younger players will have games or tournaments on the weekends.
"Welcome to my neighborhood, 'cause I am living on the corner!"
Originally posted by deemax: My problem with college baseball is that the games have become unwatchable. Four hour games are not that uncommon (at least in the Pac-10), and as much as I love baseball I hate watching coaches micromanage a game to the point of exhaustion.
Agree completely. That has been one of my gripes with MLB for years now.
I can understand someone saying that the mega schools dominating baseball might increase baseball revenue. Yet the fact that almost small schools manage to make it to Omaha is one of the things I love about college baseball. Wouldn't want to trade that away. However, I don't believe increasing the 'ships to 20-25 would necessarily change that.
Coaches don't coach pitchers to work fast. In fact, most are calling the game from the bench, which further slows the game. You have pitchers slowing to a snails pace whrn someone gets on, which is often with an average ERA over 6.5 runs a agame in D1.
If they don't increase the number of scholly's, the players will be whiter (if that is even possible) and smarter, going forward.
Posts: 4783 | Location: Florida | Registered: December 26, 2002
I think the metal bats have contributed to the game length. It is so much harder to get outs. Also I think the hitting is ahead of the pitching in college.
