quote:

Originally posted by Maverick0714:
Team D... no disrespect for you team but I noticed that you picked up several players when we played you in Fort Meyers, FL this past fall. A lot of teams pick up extra pitchers when going to tournaments where you possibly will play more games and run out of pitching.

I have not experienced the part where the team picks up extra position players and it takes playing time away from the ones that got you there. I'm sure it happens more than it should.

Be careful in the accusations about Team D picking up players to go to Ft Myers. Team D wasn't even formed until Sept and played in very few tournaments before going to Ft Myers. How would you know who was on the roster? Where did you "notice" this?

As a matter of fact, we only took 13 players to Ft Myers (nieve or stupid - could be argued either way I suppose!!) and we did run out of pitching when we reached the Marshalls in the Semi-Final game. Unfortunately it was 2 games to soon and that's why we were determined this summer to have the pitching needed to not have to pick up a pitcher.

That being said, every team I know would like to have more pitching, including us. There will always be a tournament where teams will pick up a pitcher and I'm sure we'll do the same. Injuries, attrition, length of tournament, etc should and do play into these decisions but my whole point was to "come with what you started with" and don't slight others (pitchers, lesser hitters and position players) by bringing in additional players that have no loyalty nor skin in the game.

Just to be clear…

I agree with those who think the Connie Mack World Series in Farmington is the greatest tournament in amateur baseball. I’ve been there and it is amazing, especially the crowds.

Like everything else it could be improved. Some of the qualifying tournaments especially.

The CMWS is the only event that Aflac All Americans are allowed to go to during Aflac Week.

FWIW, There is absolutely NO politics involved in the Aflac selections. We know because we have selected each and every one of them since the very first game. We try hard to pick the guys we feel are the best prospects. The first five years saw 52 Aflac All Americans drafted in the first round. There are only 38 Aflac All Americans each year and they must fill all the positions, 19 from the East, 19 from the West. And NO they do not have to attend PG events to be selected. We do need to know who the player is though.

There’s probably been some mistakes, but over 1 in 4 have become first round picks! Several others were drafted later but signed for first round type money… Dellin Bantances, Nick Adenhart, Austin Jackson, Dexter Fowler, etc.

I just want to know if that duck is going to be at all the Aflac events. If he's not I'm not going.

quote:

The CMWS is the only event that Aflac All Americans are allowed to go to during Aflac Week.

First off Jerry, let's start by saying I respect PG and most of what they do for young amatuer players.

Second, can we agree that the CMWS is a "team" event vs. AFLAC an individual event?

Your above quote is something I've never understood about the amatuer game.

As a coach with DBAT in the past, when I mentioned "this" or "that" is the only event we would allow our players to attend that conflicted with the team schedule..........

Folks went crazy and acted like the notion was a sin from the devil himself.

For the most part, most organizations allow a free for all during "team" seasons. Fearing that if a talented player is told they will not chose one event over the teams, they will eventually lose the player.

Who cares.

Why have a team? Just have a schedule in which you invite players to attend on any given day.

I wish all teams would take Jerry's approach and specifically list what is expected of a player in regards to conflicting events.

As for the CMWS events vs. others........

It's not even close.

This **** about playing for scouts, being seen by more scouts, blah blah blah is the biggest bunch of **** that gets told over and over.

If the 05' DBAT team could have been their own showcase each weekend. It didn't matter if we went to East Cobb or Ft. Worth. Bottom line, good players will be found if they are good.

One of the few things an AFLAC event does is possibly increase draft status for a player. Meaning a marginal late first round pick can move into the top 10. But folks forget that visa versa can happen as well.

So playing in Dodger Stadium in front of every cross checker in America should overpower a kid missing the Whistlin' Dixie district playoffs that he and his team worked for all year?

Regardless, the example gains validity in the means of finacial interest.

Hence the reason we have 17 year old amatuers and their "advisors" demanding 8 figure signing bonuses.

Then, as fans we turn around and say MLB players are way over paid.

What? And the dog chases it's tail round, and round, and round.

I just don't get it. Individual self promoting issues are more important that team issues?

Any organition that bases their schedule putting more importance on player promotion vs. team promotion is chasing a pipe dream.

Put your stock in reality. The reality is the best amatuer teams across the country will send very few D1 prospects into the ranks compared to the percentages. And the numbers greatly decrease when we talk about professional baseball.

Reality is 99% percent of these players will be forced to provide for their family by working in a team environment. These environments include less talented people, more talented people, and people with no talent at all. But we eventually have to deal with it all to deposit that pay check on Friday.

Or, we can teach our youth it's more important to promote themselves to assure that less than 1% chance baseball will provide any substantial income for their future.

The CMWS is everything that is right about amatuer baseball.

It's one of the last pure sporting events.

Any organization or competing venue debating this is only using that mask to disguise what is wrong with the game.

I can't really argue with that logic. When mentioning the Aflac Game and the CMWS, I should have added that we don't make those decisions. We just pick the players and only make recommendations about other stuff. It just so happens that the CMWS is the only big team event that happens during the Aflac Game or Area Codes.

That said, things like the Aflac Game are more about honoring players that have outstanding talent. I don't think it is about money at all. The players have all expenses covered (flights, lodging, meals, etc.) All the proceeds from the game go to Childrens Hospitals for Pediatric Cancer care. We actually donate our time, resources and money to the game and especially the cause.

I have always believed that players should be with their team before attending individual events. However, there are many teams who also care a lot about their players and want them to attend certain individual events when the timing is right. It's kind of a two way street in that way. You are working with the team and the team is working with you. When the team event is very important, you should always be with the team.

Most people who count lose respect for a player who will leave his team at the most important time. That includes the scouting community! JMO!

However, we have seen teams who will never allow their players to do anything else even if there is no real team conflict. Fortunately, that does not include most of the best teams in the country.

For the record,

Jerry was the only official of any venue that called me long before any invitation was extended to our players to discuss matters.

I will always remember that which adds to the respect I have for PG and their staff.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
When the team event is very important, you should always be with the team.

How would you define such?

Ken: you have beaten this horse way beyond death for the past three years. Give it a rest, we all know how you feel. It is giving us all tired head.

quote:

Originally posted by Natural:
Ken: you have beaten this horse way beyond death for the past three years. Give it a rest, we all know how you feel. It is giving us all tired head.

Tired head? You don't know tired head.

Tired head is getting 15 phone calls per hour from coaches and scouts wanting to know when XYZ is pitching. Then that same pitcher wants to know if he can go to the Strawberry Festival All Star game because they give out free wrist bands and do a write up in the local gazette.

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by PGStaff:
When the team event is very important, you should always be with the team.



How would you define such?

Ken,

I (we) don't define what an important team event would be. The team and the player defines that. Only know that never would I personally hold it against a player who was totally committed to his team. In fact, even if it were a player we were really interested in seeing, I would respect yhe player for making that decision.

It's always the goal to get the best players to our individual events. We try but can't get them all and that doesn't bother me very much.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by PGStaff:
When the team event is very important, you should always be with the team.



How would you define such?

Ken,

I (we) don't define what an important team event would be. The team and the player defines that. Only know that never would I personally hold it against a player who was totally committed to his team. In fact, even if it were a player we were really interested in seeing, I would respect yhe player for making that decision.

It's always the goal to get the best players to our individual events. We try but can't get them all and that doesn't bother me very much.

I can certainly appreciate your stance, but I'm not going to let you off that easy.

You see, if you don't define what is important you make it extremely difficult for coaches across the country to maintain reasonable expectations.

Obviously there is something you deem as "very important" since you mention the CMWS is the only event you let your AFLAC invitees attend.

You say the team and player defines important.

Jerry, your expecting a 17 year talented baseball player to stand on his own with all the talking heads to define importance?

You say you would respect the player for being committed to his team.

Well then, why not "expect" a player to be committed to his team?

Certainly by doing so you would provide greater avenues for gaining that respect from you and others with importance.

It's easy to sit back and say we are just providing an arena for talented players to be recognized by those that matter....

But you put coaches in an extremely difficult situation by doing such.

It will never be perfect we know, but keeping the important issues of amatuer baseball in mind, things can work.

On a the same line, I have noticed that Area Code, Aflac and CMWS all have conflicting dates. Yet there are many of the same players on each roster. How will this work out in the end? Can the players do more that one? Is that fair to the players that could totally commit to one? Just asking.

Simple solution, Area Code, AFLAC and CMWS get together and schedule different dates, then you are not asking a player to choose between his team or an individual event.

Answering questions a page or so back:

I'm not dissing the Farmington event. I'm just saying, there are vast expanses of America that have no idea this event, or AABC, even exist.

As for why no one from VA has fielded a team, I would say it's because no one here knows about it, beyond the few who may have read about it on this board. Perhaps someone from AABC might want to look into letting folks around the country know more about their organization. It would be great to have one truly national championship from coast to coast.

But the question in this thread was, "is AABC still top dog?" In many parts of the country, it is not now and never has been.

Ken,

There absolutely is value in individuals participating in the showcase events for which you cast strong aspersions. In fact, had JF not excused my son from a weekend tourney with the Knights in 2003 to attend the Stanford camp, then my son would very likely not have been recruited to attend Dartmouth College. My son was recruited because he was seen by the Dartmouth head coach at Stanford. Dartmouth was not at the Corsicana tourney, or the Brenham tourney.

While playing at Dartmouth (and w/ Knights & Mustangs, & Marcus HS) he learned to work with less talented people, more talented people, and people with no talent at all. Those same teamwork traits are now practiced at his place of employment. His Dartmouth degree has already afforded him opportunities in his working life that might not have been as easily available had he followed the TX JUCO route to a 4 yr school, or maybe a low level D1 baseball school in TX (I'm not kidding myself, Dartmouth is a low level D1 baseball team).

Basically, your argument falls on somewhat deaf ears because there are so many other success stories like my son's. Your position is extreme - once committed to the team no other outlet for showcasing is permissible. This is limiting and potentially harmful to the player who could succeed in college. Unless a coach/scout sees your team or unless YOU (as head coach) knows somebody that could use a player - then the team rule is limiting his exposure to college baseball coaches.

Many of us have also experienced the baseball teammate vagabond who joins a team yet chases every high profile showcase event - missing many team events. This person damages the team, and may be damaging his baseball reputation as noted by Jerry above.

There is room in a baseball player's schedule for both team commitment and individual showcasing. It takes a little communication and cooperation.

quote:

Originally posted by dbg_fan:
Ken,

There absolutely is value in individuals participating in the showcase events for which you cast strong aspersions.

Just to be clear, I don't think I stated strict arguement agaisnt this.

quote:

Basically, your argument falls on somewhat deaf ears because there are so many other success stories like my son's.

And that's fine. I can appreciate your opinions although my experience has led me to believe my opinions are much more of the norm. There are several examples on anything in life, but I simply imply the norm.

quote:

Your position is extreme - once committed to the team no other outlet for showcasing is permissible.

Again, if you can find a post where I suggest this I'd love to see it.

quote:

There is room in a baseball player's schedule for both team commitment and individual showcasing. It takes a little communication and cooperation.

Well said, although I've experienced these attempts time and time again not only with teams I've coached but countless others. Coaches talk and the same story is told by most.

Like one said, I do beat this dead horse quit a bit, but it's something I'm passionate about.

Will my discussions change anything, probably not but this is a message board and hopefully discussion is welcome.

In my opinion, you two are talking about apples and oranges.

Dbg_fan is talking about true showcases, where a player pays to showcase his abilities in front of college coaches in hopes of catching their eye and winning an offer to attend their school.

Ken's bad experience (which drives every post he makes), is about what I would call "showoff events" like AFLAC and Area Code. The players who are invited to attend these events are already well known to all the scouts, have usually already committed to a college, and are seeking recognition from pro scouts --- way before the draft even makes it necessary. Players who ditch their team in order to attend these type of events do deserve to be called out because they do not need this type of exposure. They are already high profile and well known.

On the other hand, showcase events or camps like Stanford or Headfirst or most Perfect Game events are simply opportunities for players to perform in front of coaches in hopes it results in an offer.

And as is it did for dbg_fan's son and mine as well... sometimes it does and there is nothing wrong with that.

quote:

Originally posted by Natural:


Ken's bad experience (which drives every post he makes),

It's obvious you have issues with my posts on any experience I have had which is really irrelevant to me.

But to mention my experience as being "bad" is simply not factual and a shot in the dark to say the least.

My coaching experience as a whole was nothing short of wonderful experience.

In fact, just today I recieved a phone call from a former player discussing his situations in the Cape Cod league.

Last week ran into a limited recruited player and we embraced with a hug.

During the only baseball game I attended this year, I ran into a former player in which we had not talked in years. Since, we have talked several times each week as his career progresses.

I will drive whatever I deem as important in any post I choose. You have the ability to ignore them or challenge them as you choose.

Again, there are many ways to skin a cat.

What works for one may not for another.

But you will never, and I say never, get me to understand how an individual event takes on more importance than a team event if you have committed to a team.

MLB is having and individual event tonight and tomorrow. To my knowledge there are no games on the schedule that conflict. Coincidence?

Ken,
Your statement comparing individual events on an amateur level vs MLB is about as ignorant as the author.

First of all the MLB teams are employers of the players. They sign a contract and are paid to play or work, however you want to view it. Amateurs typically pay to play for their teams and the kids you are talking about attending these type of events are highly sought out by their teams as well as these type of showcase events. By playing for their respective teams, many in fact help other kids (maybe not so well known) get seen by respective scouts, coaches, recruiters, etc. that may have not been seen otherwise.

If TEAM is really of the utmost importance in MLB or any professional sport for that matter, why have this type of all-star event at all? What if a player participating is injured? Does this not hurt his team? Whether his team has an event scheduled on that particular night is irrelevant to the remaining 80 games he could hurt his team by being injured at this particular event.

Why not just have an allstar selection after the season, kind of like an all tournament team after a tournament. Surely this type of recognition would be good enough for the mighty MLB players.

Mark Cuban doesn't want his players to participate in the Olympics. Is he right or should they be allowed to play?

My point is this; I agree with you that in a perfect world the team should always come first. I think Farmington is the greatest experience that any 18 year old baseball player could attend. I think that they should pick Farmington first over any other event taking place at the same time.

It is not however a perfect world and if we expect amateurs to always put their team first I think we should be able to expect the same from the paid professionals.

quote:

Originally posted by iluvgoodbaseball:
Ken,
Your statement comparing individual events on an amateur level vs MLB is about as ignorant as the author.

Since you post with a disguise, that to has no validity with me.

And if you truely believe I would compare MLB to amatuer baseball than the ignorance should be cast another direction.

It was simply a minor detail portraying that a team event will never be overshadowed by an individual event to those that truely understand.

quote:

Mark Cuban doesn't want his players to participate in the Olympics. Is he right or should they be allowed to play?

Since Mark Cuban invests a tremendous amount of money into demanding players, it seems he is trying to protect his assets much like any other business man in corporate America today. Professionals playing in the Olympics is another topic for another day.

quote:

My point is this; I agree with you that in a perfect world the team should always come first. I think Farmington is the greatest experience that any 18 year old baseball player could attend. I think that they should pick Farmington first over any other event taking place at the same time.

If a player is lucky enough to have an opportunity to attend the CMWS certainly he should take advantage of it. But again, whether it's the Sandlot Super Series or the World Series, there is no difference to me. A player should continue the quest any team strives for once he is considered a member of that team.

quote:

It is not however a perfect world and if we expect amateurs to always put their team first I think we should be able to expect the same