For the past several weeks, we have been suggesting that it would be in College Baseballs best interest to have a synergistic relationship with Major League Baseball. More and more top college players are spending less time in the minors and are often on a fast track to the Bigs. We have stated many times that college provides a controlled, disciplined environment that is governed by professors, teachers assistants, tutors, strength and conditioning coaches, baseball coaches and involves incredible time management skills. Combined with the excellent brand of coaching available in colleges today, you can start to see why many pro scouts are beginning to put their emphasis on college stars.
Now it seems that the NCAA has started to recognize that such a synergy can indeed exist and has begun to take the necessary steps to explore such a relationship. The following story is from CBS College Sports...
SAN DIEGO, Calif. - The University of San Diego head baseball coach Rich Hill has been selected as one of 11 collegiate coaches to participate in a meeting between Major League Baseball and the NCAA baseball coaches to help improve the relations between the two. Hill will be joined on this committee by the legendary head coach at the University of Texas, Augie Garrido, Pate Casey from Oregon State and Ray Tanner from South Carolina, among others.
This years meeting will take place in Las Vegas, Nev. On December 10th, and the meeting will consist of all the MLB Scouting Directors and their assistants, MLB Operations people (Joe Garagiola, Jr., Roy Krasik and Brian Porter), other selected MLB personal and the 12 college coaches.
The two Sides will come together to discuss ways to improve the relationship between college baseball and professional baseball and is put on by the American Baseball Coaches Association.
The one obvious change should be for all baseball players to be introduced as products of their college alma mater like they do in football and basketball. Every college, student, fan and alumni likes to hear their alma mater mentioned in a national or regional broadcast. Everyone knows that Tom Brady went to Michigan or Shaq went to LSU. Imagine the smooth Jon Miller announcing on an ESPN broadcast..."Now batting, from Illinois Central University, Jim Thome." How exciting is it for the students and alumni of this small midwestern college to hear that on a national broadcast?
Another change is limiting the players drafted out of high school to hardship cases...but only if the NCAA increases the scholarship limits to 20. High school players need to experience college. They also need to be able to afford college...and that means more scholarships...And, College Baseball will benefit greatly from those top blue chippers attending their schools. Networks will benefit as well, because colleges have a broader base of customers (present student body, plus decades of alumni) that will grow as more and more blue chip athletes infiltrate the college ranks.
Major League Baseball also benefits from the blue chips going to college by making the MLB draft the type of spectacle that football and basketball enjoy. There's school pride at stake when you involve College players to be a part of a pro sport's future.
The only downside is that more high school players going to college will decrease the need for the plethora of minor league teams. Do we really need an instructional league, rookie league, High A, Low A, AA, AAA. Can't that be pared in half? A college player that has had three years of grueling everyday practices, 56+ games a year, combined with a 40-60 game wood bat summer league experience, will be a bit ahead of the curve and might be a bit over qualified for an instructional league assignment.
We love the College game. We want to see it grow for today's fans and tomorrows future stars. We hope that this meeting of college coaches and MLB officials will be productive to bring this game to new and exciting heights. The way we see it, December 10th can't come soon enough. RT Staff
Posts: 2212 | Location: San Antonio, TX | Registered: April 11, 2006
Good article but I don't agree with all of it. The team my son is on drafts many college players, yet, they have more developmental teams than most MLB teams. Teams won't drop their developmental leagues, it just frees up more space for their foreign players. Most college players do miss the lower levels, go directly to rookie ss or low A. Despite whatever training is done in college, most players are far below the MLB level when they get drafted and need years of experience getting ready for ML. The problem has been two fold, the NCAA not liking players leaving early messing up grad rates rates and MLB not paying those a decent bonus who wish to do 3-4 years in college. JMO.
Posts: 10993 | Location: South Florida | Registered: July 28, 2003
One of the first questions that I had when I started observing here was how much did a three year college career reduce a minor league stay.
I thought that maybe three years in college would reduce the stay in the minor leagues by three years.
bbscout indicated that, ON AVERAGE, a high school player spends 4 - 5 years in the minor leagues and a college junior 3-4 years before reaching MLB.
So, from that information, it would appear that going to college is a longer route to MLB, but with slightly higher odds of reaching MLB, in my opinion.
bbscout said if you want to go to school go to school, if you want to play baseball, sign when drafted.
It really is two different things.
I did note that bbscouts son went to college.............
Posts: 3158 | Location: Texas | Registered: December 27, 2002
With no bonus, I don't think that many HS players with scholarship will sign instead of going to college first. All that a good signing bonus actually means (I am not talking about the elite top picks) less financial struggle while doing your time in milb, unless you have a rich family to help support you. This year I read where second and third rounders from my son's first draft year were let go. Sometimes it isn't about bonus, but about age. By 23,24 out of HS, if still in the lowest levels, getting close to your fifth year (now it is six) and not headed for the 40 man roster, they will release you or players ask for release, no matter how much they have paid out in bonus $$. Getting hurt doesn't always mean a release, depends on what tools you came with in the first place. A friend of my son's a top pick in 2005, has not seen much time on the mound due to injury, but IMO he is one of the best pichers I have seen, he is close to 25, but I doubt they will let him go and protect him because he most likely will make a contribution, just a bit later than anyone expected. A college player just drafted at 22-23 still has 6 years within the system to improve and 3-4 years of college if things don't work out, which doesn't happen often. Sometimes it is about players and their folks thinking that they just worth more than the round they are projected for. Sometimes its about getting your at bats in while going to class, sometimes it's about pitchers fear of over use and getting hurt in college. Very few teams draft HS pitchers high unless they have all of the pitchers tools and just need time to develop physically and work up to the required 170-200+ innings needed to become a ML starter. Top college pitchers putting in close to that in summer league and on the college mound are almost there. Sometimes its about the team that has interest in you, and their farm system.
Yes, it's all complicated, but I agree with what FO posted regarding bbscouts comments.
Should be interesting to see how the NCAA and MLB will work together. Personally I think that MLB prefers that many players out of HS (unless the elite) to go to college first, they provide better competition for their top picks to play against and less time and money they have to invest in a player.
IMO this is about business, not what may be best for everyone.
Posts: 10993 | Location: South Florida | Registered: July 28, 2003
bbscout said if you want to go to school go to school, if you want to play baseball, sign when drafted.
It really is two different things.
It is not that simple when no bonus is involved. No bonus means no investment which can mean "easily disposed of".
I have to disagree. No bonus means there is a greater risk that the player will not develop into a major league player... Players are disposed of when they fail to develop... If you have a big bonus odds are you are a pretty good player so you are going to be around for a while to begin with. Risk determines the bonus, Ability/development determines when your released
Posts: 1190 | Location: NJ | Registered: December 30, 2002
I don't think there is going to be any changes in the relationship between colleges and pro ball.. Why would pro ball want to change? I don't think pro ball really cares if HS players go to college or not, If anything they would rather them not have a choice.. Also why take away a HS players freedom of choice? MLB wants whats best for MLB.
Posts: 1190 | Location: NJ | Registered: December 30, 2002
It is not that simple when no bonus is involved. No bonus means no investment which can mean "easily disposed of".
Sometimes I think, in some ways, there is too much emphasis on the money.
We never discuss here in very specific terms the desire of our boys to play baseball.
When my son goes to bed at night, he still dreams of being an MLB baseball player. He has since he was at least 10 or 11 years old.
From what I've seen so far, had my son been drafted in the early rounds and received "life changing" money, I still wouldn't be too confident of not being "easily disposed of"
Only about 100 of the 1500 drafted every year will actually get any "life changing" money.
Those players are drafted in the first three rounds and get that money do so because of their projected time to MLB ( concept not often discussed here). David Price is a perfect example.
If your son is projected as a top 3 round pick, then I think it is appropriate to compare with other players that have those same characteristics. Beyond the third round the picture changes dramatically, and after the 10th, it's just where you want to play, MiLB, or college.
But, lets say that the round is the 5th round (maybe $150,000 to $200,000) and that you have a big time D1 schloarship NLI agreement in your pocket.
That's probably just slighly below what I, and many others, consider breakeven. How much money do you lose by deferring your career by delaying it for five years while you play in MiLB? Five years at an entry level starting salary of $30,000 to $40,000.
With hindsight, I am thankful that my son was not drafted out of high school. He would have signed for a nickel because that is what he has a burning desire to do. Maturity is a huge issue. My son has always been very mature. I think the maturity he gained playing baseball for three years in college was necessary for him to be able to compete in Milb.
When he was drafted, in a lower round than expected and less money on the table than made sense to forego a final senior season "FULLY" funded, still considering the deferral of starting a normal career for five more years, and after mulling the offer over for about three days, he said, "Dad, I want to go play. I want to see if I can make it."
The money didn't matter.
"bbscout said if you want to go to school go to school, if you want to play baseball, sign when drafted."
Minor league baseball is to baseball what a business degree is to a business person.
It really is two different things.
Posts: 3158 | Location: Texas | Registered: December 27, 2002
njbb, Again I agree, MLB wants whats best for MLB and the NCAA wants what's best for the NCAA.
NCAA is realizing that their former players can make them some bucks. Announcing that David Price (as an example) went to Vanderbilt is great publicity for Vandy and the SEC and the NCAA.
Every scout that was seriously considering drafting son told him in the end that college was his best choice. I don't think they cared either, one way or the other, but not sure that would be the same if he was the top HS pick in the country. They don't want to lose those type of players to college, those are the ones they care about.
It's really hard for many of them to look into a cystal ball to see where a HS player will be in 3-4 years and don't want to pay what many HS players demand in bonus. So they lose many due to signability issues.
Posts: 10993 | Location: South Florida | Registered: July 28, 2003
Good post and I think for many boys it is this way. I agree that with college comes a lot of maturity. But if you have finished 3 years and you get a chance to play in the MLB then Hey do what your heart tells you to do. At that point many boys would play for peanuts. Its many boys dreams and they are young and this is their time to chase those dremas reality hits soon enough then its work until you retire, raise a family and you dont have that young single freedom again. You only get one shot and one time aroundon this earth there are no do overs. To me go for the gusto, at leat you can know in your heart yu gave it your best shot.
Posts: 819 | Location: california | Registered: December 17, 2007
Sometimes I think, in some ways, there is too much emphasis on the money.
We never discuss here in very specific terms the desire of our boys to play baseball.
When my son goes to bed at night, he still dreams of being an MLB baseball player. He has since he was at least 10 or 11 years old.
From what I've seen so far, had my son been drafted in the early rounds and received "life changing" money, I still wouldn't be too confident of not being "easily disposed of"
Only about 100 of the 1500 drafted every year will actually get any "life changing" money.
I believe the dreams are " a given"
I never mentioned "life changing money". I said BONUS. That value is different for all kids.
I agree on the amount of the bonus relating to probability/talent, and opportunity, and tolerance for failures.
I stick the point I made, and make again. There is a bottom dollar amount that equates to each individual and their desire to forego college. It has been measured several ways, but 3 years out of a professional job market is a start, as well as the COA and the college life experiences, including baseball.
fanofgame "at some point many boys would play for peanuts."
And who supports them financially?
Flash Baseball
Posts: 1592 | Location: OHIO | Registered: September 16, 2005
With no bonus and $1,100 for the season, the number of years that a player can allocate to his major league dreams is limited.
But, I see many getting it done.
Working in the offseason and living very meagerly in season.
Host families reduce housing costs and sometimes transportation significantly. On out of town travel the team pays for lodging and a per diem for meals ($20 per day, I think).
They don't have time to spend money in season, anyway.
Maturity has an impact here, too.
quote:
There is a bottom dollar amount that equates to each individual and their desire to forego college.
In my son's case, bottom dollar was $0.
ONE of the obstacles that he overcame getting to Milb was college......................
quote:
And who supports them financially?
In my son's case, I do, and, I don't view that any different than sending him to college.
I am sending him to Milb to support his career decision.
The odds are that he will not accomplish his dream.
You can't steal second base with one foot on first, and when he gets thrown out, I am gonna help him up, dust him off, register him for school, and let MLB pay for it.
quote:
You only get one shot and one time aroundon this earth there are no do overs. To me go for the gusto, at leat you can know in your heart yu gave it your best shot.
And, on a 3-2 pitch down 4 with the bases loaded, you gotta take a rip.
Posts: 3158 | Location: Texas | Registered: December 27, 2002
IF and that is such a HUGE if my son got the shot we would help him anyway we could. I am very into the education and want my son to get his degree. I am just saying that a lot of these boys would want to give it a shot. If they get offered to play in MLB, lets say they are 20, 21, they are not thinking that by spending three years in MLB making very little money I could of been in the work force and had a raise already. At least my son wouldnt be. Its such a long shot and the original poster is just pondering the questions. again every player has to do whats best for them and their lives and careers. Most of us are realistic and want are boys to get a chance to play in college and graduate with a degree.But I know my son and his passion for the game and he would go just for the experience.
Posts: 819 | Location: california | Registered: December 17, 2007
