Just looking at the first three rounds of the 2008 MLB Draft (1st, 1st supplemental and 2nd round) there were 38 players drafted who were not drafted out of high school. That is a much higher number than i had anticipated.
Originally posted by floridafan: What is a reasonable offer for a kid to forgo a college scholarship and sign? I understand that it is very subjective from the player/parent side, but it is a pure business decision from the MLB Clubs side. They know, without emotion, what that reasonable offer is. That offer that says to them that "we want this young man now, but don't need to get him with our top picks". If a HS senior is offered $80k plus the college plan, do organizations believe this to be a reasonable offer? When a player has at least that much in scholarship waiting for him? Does a reasonable offer need to hit some sort of threshold in order for it to be credible from the organizations standpoint?
The question that some of us face is, yes my son wants to play baseball more than breathe air... (fortunately breathing is a prerequisite, so no worry there), but at what point (what level of bonus) do you develop some level of confidence that your guy is going to be given the adequate opportunity to prove his value and not get released after a year. At what point do the clubs have enough invested in a kid to give him the time it will take to adjust to MiLB after graduating from HS.
And when asked, "How much will it take to sign you" and keep you out of college, how do you answer that question, when you are not one of the top 100 players everyone in the business is buzzing about?
Yorman Rodriguez, perhaps the most athletic player available for this year’s July 2 international signing period, has signed with the Reds.
International scouts contacted by BA indicated they believed the bonus was for $2.7 million, although the official number has not been confirmed. That bonus would be the largest signing bonus ever given to a player from Venezuela.
Rodriguez, who just turned 16 this month, is a four-tool player who draws praise from scouts for his athleticism, speed, power and arm strength. Scouts say his hit tool lags behind his other abilities–a significant concern for several scouts–but his athleticism and ceiling are both high. Between the signing of Rodriguez and of 16-year-old Dominican outfielder Juan Duran earlier this year for $2 million, the Reds have added two of this year’s top talents from Latin America.
"Yorman is one of the premier position players in Latin America," Reds scouting director Chris Buckley said in a press release. "In Rodriguez and Juan Duran, we’ve signed two of the top players available in that market and consider both to be first-round draft picks. This organization has made great progress in international scouting."
Flash Baseball
Posts: 1495 | Location: OHIO | Registered: September 16, 2005
The Royals signed players for over a million dollars and they are no longer playing baseball. Their current ss signed for 1 thousand dollars and he is in the major leagues....
Posts: 1177 | Location: NJ | Registered: December 30, 2002
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ " Play both sports until the competition convinces you otherwise!! " " ...because baseball is just GOOD PRACTICE FOR LIFE ".
Posts: 2997 | Location: Kansas | Registered: March 18, 2006
Of the 4 teams that made it to the 2008 League Championship Series, the following active roster makeup has about 60% players who attended college, and of the 40% non-college, about 1/3 are international and the rest US kids.
From the college group, many schools are represented, which again shows it doesn't matter where you play, but how you play as far as advancing in pro ball.
Arizona State Auburn Cal St Fullerton Cal State Long Beach California Central Arizona Chipola JC, FL Cincinnati Columbia Concordia, MN Dallas Baptist Duquesne Florida Florida State Florida Tech Fresno State Georgia Tech Golden West CC, CA Gonzaga Hanyang, Seoul Kansai Gakuin Kent State Kentucky Kentucky Wesleyan Louisiana State McNeese State Miami, FL Mississippi State Mobile Northeastern Northwestern Notre Dame Oklahoma Oregon State Pierce JC, CA Richmond San Diego State Senshu South Alabama Southern California Southern Idaho JC Southern Mississippi Southwest Missouri State Southwestern, TX St. Joseph's, PA Stanford Texas UCLA Vanderbilt Virginia Wichita State
If the CWS is your goal, follow the RPI even though that calculation favors warm weather programs.
Flash Baseball
Posts: 1495 | Location: OHIO | Registered: September 16, 2005
My son ended up going to the University of Kansas. He is enjoying it, although the schedule is very busy. He has put on about 10 pounds in the first 8 weeks of college. He is happy with his decision and so am I. I think college and the summer college leagues will give him a chance to become more self-reliant and grow mentally as well as physically.
I have done a lot of searching on the site regarding pro or college, and seek opinions regarding a high school catcher.
Like pitcher’s arms, catcher’s legs/knees are important to consider. Given the option of pro or college, does “wear and tear” on a catcher’s knees come into play in this decision at all?
-I do think that the experience in college will help in all kinds of areas: learning the game at a higher level, receiving, hitting, and in some cases depending on the coach - calling the game. -I also think these same things can be learned in MiLB. -Given the catchers in the MLB today, with several exceptions (Posada, Varitek, Pudge, hopefully Mauer, among others) a lot of them get worn out and have shorter careers than otherwise successful position players. -Catchers also have a lot to learn, no disrespect to other positions intended. Handling a pitching staff properly, knowing major league caliber hitters with wood vs. aluminum, throwing game, managing the game from behind the plate. A lot of college coaches run the game that the pro catcher has to learn how to do.
I have read several threads and don’t want to rehash the other factors (money, maturity, desire to play pro ball, etc.) Simply want some opinions if getting the jump start of 3 years by signing out of high school that was mentioned earlier in this thread would be beneficial or detrimental to a catcher for the legs issue (and other beatings to the body that occurs at the position) and for the steep learning curve associated with the pro requirements of catching.
Sorry this seems so long.
This is a great site and I look forward to the opinions out there.
Posts: 4 | Location: Florida | Registered: October 23, 2008
Originally posted by FormerObserver: The majority of the high school catchers that I have seen in Milb seem way behind those from the college ranks.
College catchers appear to me to make the transition to the professional level with much more ease.
FormerObserver, are you saying that 2 catchers, both 21...one in MiLB for three years and one in college for three years...That the college player will be way ahead of that 3 year MiLB catcher at the same point in time?
Or do you mean that on day 1, the 21 year old college catcher will be better than the 18 year old HS draftee?
Just trying to sort out some things said earlier on here (not by you.)
Koko
Posts: 4 | Location: Florida | Registered: October 23, 2008
K, I would agree with FO with two exceptions, but they're related.
Wear and tear on a catcher's knees and the related physicality is MUCH greater in pro ball. From mid-Feb through until very early September, and perhaps a few more weeks if Instrux is attended, ballplayers only have a handfull of days off. Warmups, bullpens, games are a minimum of 9 hours a day. Then add in weights, long busrides, and any extra work they might need in the cages or on the field.
Platooning of catchers will depend on the level and the organization; I can only speak to Short Season, A and High A through two seasons. For a few weeks in SS, my son was on a team with two other catchers. The rest of the time, there were only two. Even on game days, both catchers had to catch bullpens; the starter that night, however, might only catch 4-6 with the bullpen catcher catching the rest...sometimes 10-12 depending on the roster. Then the bullpen catcher warms up every incoming pitcher. Keep in mind that most MiLB pitchers are on a strict pitch count (not to mention any other issues ), so that can easily mean warming up seven or eight pitchers a game.....after all those bullpens earlier in the day.
And I solidly agree that unless a player is getting very early round, serious money....go to college. Wherever they are drafted, there's a 5% chance of making the majors for just a day....and a 3% chance of having a career. College players will be better prepared for life after baseball, which is wear 97% of them will end up.
The forms to be filled out will all contain that special question about Round and Money. Any lack of honesty on the part of the draft-eligible player can lead to selling one's abilities short.
are you saying that 2 catchers, both 21...one in MiLB for three years and one in college for three years...That the college player will be way ahead of that 3 year MiLB catcher at the same point in time?
No.
quote:
on day 1, the 21 year old college catcher will be better than the 18 year old HS draftee?
has a better chance to make the transition.
Orlando, did you forget about the college fall workouts, practices and the summer collegiate league play?
I can only relate what I observed with my son, but there was a noticeable effort to manage catchers "overuse" in a way very similar to what is often discussed with regard to pitchers.
The number of bullpens, the number of inning caught and the timing of those inninngs is closely managed.
Would I encourage my son to go direct to Milb out of high school because the impact on the knees? (whether more or less)
No, because I think the transition for a high school catcher is more difficult than for a catcher coming out of college.
I can understand how my original post caused some confusion.
Maybe this clarifies it.
Posts: 3131 | Location: Texas | Registered: December 27, 2002
FO, I didn't forget about those things at all. I've asked my son just these kinds of questions and relayed his answers here as he has experienced both. Fall work at a D1 (and I'm presuming anyone being considered for a high-ish draft pick will have a D1 offer) has some time restrictions. Then there are days off and holidays. Maybe five hours a day (when they're playing) rather than 9+. Of course, off-season is 4 months long (although they then need to work on their own), but the work is constant for the other 8.
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance." --- Terry Pratchett
I think for any player any position the transition in college is a plus.
Study rosters, many programs have too many catchers, most are needed for BP work with the pitchers, only a few actually start, in fact, many get converted because of their arms to other positions. This can be a good thing, keeping the workload down. I would think that the concern would be more for the shoulder than knees.
Not too many catchers are drafted well out of HS, take a look at the previous drafts. Would Buster Posey, Jason Castro and Matt Weiters been drafted out of HS very high? Most likely not. They attended programs where their workload (if only a few catchers)and instruction was on par with milb (IMO), and they got their much needed at bats at college. Starting as a catcher is a tough position to win anywhere, and it can take many, many years if not any to ever see a MLB field. Best option is to go to college and get your degree and learn as you go, if one is drafted, it's all just icing on the cake.
JMO.
Posts: 10788 | Location: South Florida | Registered: July 28, 2003
..... if one is drafted, it's all just icing on the cake.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ " Play both sports until the competition convinces you otherwise!! " " ...because baseball is just GOOD PRACTICE FOR LIFE ".
Posts: 2997 | Location: Kansas | Registered: March 18, 2006
TPM, I don't think you can use Castro as a good example. Posey does not fit too well either. For Castro, he really did not catch at Stanford his first two years. He played first base, was a DH, and was a back up catcher. However, I don't think he caught a game until the very end of his sophomore year. He became the starting catcher this past February and had career years with the bat and behind the plate, but is still a bit behind as a catcher according to some predraft information. While I don't know Posey that well, I know from reading information when the Giants drafted him that he went to college as a shortstop.
'You don't have to be a great player to play in the major leagues, you've got to be a good one every day.'
Posts: 2055 | Location: ca | Registered: February 11, 2003
Originally posted by infielddad: TPM, I don't think you can use Castro as a good example. Posey does not fit too well either. For Castro, he really did not catch at Stanford his first two years. He played first base, was a DH, and was a back up catcher. However, I don't think he caught a game until the very end of his sophomore year. He became the starting catcher this past February and had career years with the bat and behind the plate, but is still a bit behind as a catcher according to some predraft information. While I don't know Posey that well, I know from reading information when the Giants drafted him that he went to college as a shortstop.
Thanks IFD, maybe all the more reason why HS players should go to college.
Posts: 10788 | Location: South Florida | Registered: July 28, 2003
), so that can easily mean warming up seven or eight pitchers a game.....after all those bullpens earlier in the day.
