INF,
I read this over a few times before I posted it but perhaps I didn't do a good job as to what I meant.
LL gave me the impression he advised his son to go to college to avoid the nightmares that so often occur for many players(using Bonds, Clemens, and Manny as examples). You can't use those players as examples of nightmares that occur in lower level proball.
This doesn't seem to be a reasonable reason to head off to college unless one is looking for reasons to justify a personal decision as an excuse. Did you get that?
Perhaps if LL could get it straight as to what he means when he posts, we could also.

TPM

A sense frustration in your words and some disappointment in the outcome you've experienced with the way things have turned out and as a justification to assure yourself that your decisions and that of your son's you expect me to assuage your doubt. I can only tell you that my son is being coached by men who have been where MiLB current players are. He says in speaking with them MiLB is expressed in terms of a grind. They really have only few days off during the season and the traveling is more extensive. But the MiLB schedule does have a set routine that is not enjoyed by the college players. College + baseball sets a higher level of intensity with deadlines and intrusive interruption that has to be managed with a great deal of discipline to avoid miscalculation of satisfactory results.

Since this is an open forum about whether parents would consider the same path they have taken I simply use in example the most egregious of what baseball has produced as these icons have tried to overcome the obstacles that each player no doubt experiences in their trek for perfection that is demanded; it makes my point. It is not a pretty one.

Baseball should be careful about the outcomes it is producing for if the examples of the Bonds, Clemins. Ramirez, who are its current whipping boys are the latest "Big Names" of famous repute to represent baseball as the ultimate achievers...then the question is "Is that what you want for your son?". My answer NO!!

That was the point of my post in answer to "would I do it all over again?"...probably would have tried to keep him in football, he was a he*ll of an outside linebacker and a great QB.

JMO

rainy afternoon here so i'll throw my 2 cents in.
i see two very different things here. beyond apples to oranges.

college is a place YOU choose to go to. you may get some money from baseball, but you still pay some to go there. when your there you will stay someplace with other students,usually lots and lots of them. many things to do, all kinds of free activitys.and if for some reason you can't play baseball anymore you still have a reason to be in the school.
food is readily available, help with classes,if your sick they have people to help, etc.



the whole campus is at your disposal,transportation,security,kind of like a little city. and your a taxpayer.
the biggest difference is you are all playing for a team,school,alumni etc. one for all,all for one kind of thing.


playing pro baseball,while every little boy's dream. is a job they CHOOSE you for. after they choose you ,if your in the top of your peers ,you may have some money to help offset your monthly pay. you will find yourself taking a plane/bus, with as (it seems like) as many stops as possable to a place that is most likely not anything like where your from. finding a place to live, which you may get lots of help with or not to much help. maybe it's on a bus route or near the ballpark. or you are roomates with a top rounder that has a vehicle.

then hopefully you have learned the finer things that moms do. cook, clean do laundry etc. take care of yourself if your sick, or find someone who is really concerned that you may be sick.

then go out a be the best player you can be,don't pay any attention to the group of drunks yelling at you because you struckout, their fan's.



while the picture i painted may be a little blurry, the aren't even close to being the same.college is a very controled atmosphere. once you leave a milb field you make your own fun. and that gets easier as you climb the ladder i'm sure.

make the most of either choice,be informed about good and bad. then go for it.

quote:

Originally posted by LLorton:
TPM

A sense frustration in your words and some disappointment in the outcome you've experienced with the way things have turned out and as a justification to assure yourself that your decisions and that of your son's you expect me to assuage your doubt.

What?
There's been some bumps in the road, but in son's case things have turned out pretty well for him. He's been lucky in achieving many of his goals. Whether he gets there or not, will not make or break who he is. It's been frustrating, but I wouldn't consider it a "train wreck". Your statement about keeping your son in football (wasn't it his choice) may show your frustration.

BTW, what happened to Clemens and Bonds was largely brought about by their own doing. There are many players who have enjoyed and reaped the benefits of success without putting needles in their butts for more money. As far as Manny, you have to put him on a shelve all by himself, not sure if he really cares about the fame or the money as much as we think he might.

As I stated (in case you didn't see it) college plus baseball is not an easy task. Somehow my son managed to play baseball and go to college both at the same time and do very well. He finds baseball on the pro level to be a whole different challenge with a whole different set of rules. It is not easier.

Just watched the HOF Induction Ceremonies for the NFL...

All I can say; what a contrast of the adoration, respect and grace displayed by these men who in all their own glory could not have found more a more humbling approach to their own inductions.

Then I think back of the most recent images of baseball, before the US Congress...Conseco, Soto, McGuire, Palmeiro, and the "Big Phoney" Curt Schilling...finally one of my favorite icons I used so many times in discussing with my son the aspects of attitude in example of what he should strive for...the one, the only Roger Clemins. Boy, what a disappointment he turned out to be.

Juxtaposition these, HOF NFL induction or MLB top achievers of baseball in front of the US Congress lying through their teeth.

Question: which group would you rather have your son associated with??? Hmmmm...let me think??? Does that help you understand why I'm ticked off about the guys who running baseball onto the rocks. Until we get rid of the cancer and cut it out our game will have a shadow over its own character.

It's not all about money!! Would I do it over again, to be honest, I really am ambivalent and having a hard time convincing myself that it is worth all the effort, just to find out that the whole thing is a festering pile of corruption. It is very disappointing.

JMO

LL,
I live in a town that has a NFL and MLB. There are more incidences with players in the few short months of football than the long season of baseball. We have an NBA team as well, but that's a whole different issue.
If anyone is afraid that the negative influences in any sport or anything you come across in life might possibly influence your child negatively, than keep them locked up in a box for the rest of their lives. I am not sure about others, but we never taught son to strive to be anyone but himself.

BTW, it's Clemens.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
LL,
I live in a town that has a NFL and MLB. There are more incidences with players in the few short months of football than the long season of baseball. We have an NBA team as well, but that's a whole different issue.
If anyone is afraid that the negative influences in any sport or anything you come across in life might possibly influence your child negatively, than keep them locked up in a box for the rest of their lives. .

_________________________________________________________________________________

Nice white wash and justification for status quo. In case you missed it I was speaking of the icons of baseball...please present the leaders in the NFL that are equivalent icons that have conducted themselves with such disgrace. Other than Tom Brady acting like a high schooler who just found out there are girls in this world I can't think of one.

Does the NFL clean up their problems...in my opinion much better than the MLB has ever done so.

JMO

IMO, one of the reasons your intention on this thread is hard to follow, LL, is the leap from college v. pro choice to the disappointment of the Bad Boys of MLB. As in any endeavor in life there are good guys, bad guys, and combinations thereof.

But mostly, MLB personalities are far removed from the MiLB experience.

Muddling the discussion further with NFL or (horrors!) NBA isn't going to contribute to the college v pro discussion either.

Players represented here who have played both college and MiLB have said they are very different experiences with unique challenges. As has been said, the lack of safety net in MiLB is a big reason why pro ball can be harder.

Orlando It is always amazing to me how using metaphors, similes and examples of behavior to explain cognitive reasoning in the formulation of ones thoughts in that process seems to offend an observer who seems to know my own thought process better than I do. What arrogance.

The thread is a question "If you could do it over again, would you make the same decision twice?"

In the answer to that question are so many variables that influence ones decision. No where in the question does it say that it is confined to MiLB versus College, nor is there any reference in the question to MLB or MiLB. It simply extends an invitation to express your own thoughts about repeating the path of bringing your son along in support of his attaining the right to play in the pro ranks.

I think I understand much more fully its implications, however if you would like to give your answer in one sentence that certainly is your perogative. I usually think things through, especially with such a complex issue. If putting blinders on is the way you deal with a complex issue you certainly are entitled to that opinion.

I have expressed both my admiration of those who lead the young ball players at the college level and have much chagrin for those players and men in baseball who are so selfishly oriented they care so little about it that they are continually devising ways to disrespect the very thing that gives them their livelihood.

As for your input it is as usual presumptive and not well thought out.

But then that's just my opinion.

Orlando - LLorten is the latest reincarnation of PiC and Ramrod. I suggest not responding to his foolishness. LL - your trolling ways are obvious - please do not drop the thesaurus on your toe.

You're right, ClevelandDad.

Been awhile, but I recognized the BS instantly.

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
Orlando - LLorten is the latest reincarnation of PiC and Ramrod. I suggest not responding to his foolishness. LL - your trolling ways are obvious - please do not drop the thesaurus on your toe.

Wow CD, you are right, I just knew he sounded familiar! Should have known better.

LLorton is 'not troll' spelled backwards.

If it was LLorten then it was 'net troll'.

Not too bad for a third grader, huh?

Maybe you can figure this one out 'ssasuopmop'.

Kind of like a bug splatter on the windshield. Hard to miss. After you smear it with a wiper. It is still just the same dead bug

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
Orlando - LLorten is the latest reincarnation of PiC and Ramrod. I suggest not responding to his foolishness. LL - your trolling ways are obvious - please do not drop the thesaurus on your toe.

CD ...
I could just kick myself after reading this, realizing that I should have recognized the blather ... we have all now been forewarned and for those who are relatively new to the site (a year or so), feel free to pm one of us oldtimers for the skinny on this cyber-nuisance.

And now it also explains why he brought up the alleged collusion of MLB to keep Bonds and Ramirez out of the hall of fame (despite no one ever questioning ManRam's qualifications) ... I am surprised he didn't accuse us of being being rascists ...

FO ...

quote:

Maybe you can figure this one out 'ssasuopmop'.

Oo--oo--oo I'm gonna tell Momma on you

Wakes up & smells the coffee. Drinks the coffee. Then slaps forehead, feels silly.

Thanks for the alarm call, CD & FO!

Refering to "no troLL"
Some people just have way too much time on their hands.

I think closing this thread would be in the best interest of the HSBBW.
Fungo

I reopened this thread because there is some good information here --- and a very respected poster suggested I do so --- I agree.
I also thought it might help if I re-post the original comments to help it get back on track.
Thanks,
Fungo

quote:

I would really like to hear from all of those players and parents who as a family were faced with the difficult (or easy) decision of whether to have their player sign professionally out of high school or go to college and whether faced with the same decision all over again, would you make the same decision twice!? I understand that each decision is a personal one for each family but really trying to see if the whole college experience was sorely missed or never looked back having the opportunity to play professional baseball?

Fungo - thanks for opening this back up as there have been many excellent posts/points made in this thread. There has been some divergence from the original topic near the end of this thread with the discussions on pro ball talent versus college talent, however, I still think that has been useful as some may actually use that information to determine whether or not to begin their pro careers or remain in college. Either way, this topic and related discussions have always fascinated me. I will reiterate that I wish bbscout was around to participate. Hopefully people will continue to share their ideas.