quote:

Geez I didn't realize there was so such reverberation from an innocuous statement about the difference in MiLB and college ball.

There is a difference between innocuous and uninformed, under informed, or ignorant. Your statement proves that.

quote:

Most of them said the rigor of his schedule starting at 5:30AM runs, two hour weight room in the morning before attending 8AM class, then getting thirty minutes for lunch before afternoon classes, practice at 3PM to 6PM; 30 minutes for dinner, study table 7PM to 9PM, then night practice starting at 9:PM to 11:PM before getting back to the dorms for more study and then hit the rack at around 12:AM to start it all over again for your 5:30AM run much tougher gig then practicing/game each day for a measly 8 to 9 hours in the MiLB.

Apples and oranges my friend. In milb every day you are competing against the best of the best and not just from your country. The better players on a college team may not even play in the minors. Your job is on the line every day and there are immense pressures to perform. There is pressure to perform in college, but not the same. In the minors if you are really bad on a couple of days you may get sent down or released. Road travel is exhausting and mental draining. You will find out how mentally tough you are with 5 days off in 6 months.

I am not downplaying the college experience by any means. It is just two different things. Your comments prove that you only have one point of reference and it is uninformed.

quote:

Sure I'll grant you the level of play overall at college level is not as competitive as the MiLB but the college guys are using the "full capacity" of their potential not just the physical regime of routine...and at the end of it the MiLB guys have nothing to show for it except some memories. College ballplayers have that piece of paper that opens opportunity.

Most colleges have one or 2 guys with enough speed to play in the minors. The speed of the game is so much faster in the minors. It is the like the difference between college and hs. You realize that players have the option to go to college and have it paid for by MLB if they choose to. That is a full ride and a chance to follow your dreams. Whether you choose to do that or not is your choice. Most do not. Most people are not defined by a piece of paper. Rather by their personal experiences and the upbringing by their parents. Success in life is determined by who you are and what you do with what god gave you. Not strictly by the university you attend.

In college you make a lifetime of memories. This also happens in minor league ball. I would not trade either one.

Your full capacity statement is condescending and uninformed. Don't think for a minute it is easier in the minors. Your statement is laughable and insulting to those who have not chosen the path that you chose for your son. Your path and your son's path are yours. Other people's are theirs and it is not for you to judge in my opinion.

quote:

...and fungo you know as I do, most of the guys in the MiLB are getting ready to be cut or released, very few of 'em will ever set foot on a MLB field.

So what? It would be just as condescending for me to say that some kids go to college and not to the minors because they don't have the courage to give it their best shot and just would rather be the big fish in the small pond. At least the guys who go pro gave it their best and have no regrets. For some it is about the competition and the challenge to see how good they can be. Everybody has different reasons for what they do and it is not up to you to judge. I suspect you enjoy doing so anyway. Show some respect for those who choose a different path and stop trying to justify your decision in an open forum by trying to put down others who did not choose your path. Respect others opinions. Hopefully your son will get the chance to go to the minors. Opinions are like backside, everbody has one and most of them stink.


......off soapbox.

LL,
If your point is to head off to college to earn your degree first (or most of it) instead of signing out of HS due to the percentage who make it as to those who don't, I would agree. Going to college and playing ball is not an easy task, no arguments. The college experience is wonderful, also a liftime of memories. Knowing what I do now I still would prefer son to head off to college, as Bighit states, that is a personal decision.

You told your son to go to school and do his minor league stint in college, I am sure that you are aware that ALL players go directly into minor league ball after college. A small percentage per year sign MLB contracts, but still do not see MLB for a few years.

I think everyone did a good job at pointing out the differences, however can you explain...

Quote by LLorton:
Most of them said the rigor of his schedule starting at 5:30AM runs, two hour weight room in the morning before attending 8AM class, then getting thirty minutes for lunch before afternoon classes, practice at 3PM to 6PM; 30 minutes for dinner, study table 7PM to 9PM, then night practice starting at 9:PM to 11:PM before getting back to the dorms for more study and then hit the rack at around 12:AM to start it all over again for your 5:30AM run much tougher gig then practicing/game each day for a measly 8 to 9 hours in the MiLB.

I am not sure which division your son plays, but if you have played professional ball, in most cases you cannot return to play D1 college ball, so how can this comparison be made?

I agree TPM and also when you get released and or give up the pro dream you are 3-5 years older than most of the other freshies. Not always a great thing and it is harder to go back.

I can think of very few guys who went through our A team that made it to the big leagues. Vernon Well, Carlos Delgado and a few others. Can't think of any pitchers that really made it even though there were some million dolar plus bonus guys.

Nice post, Biggie.

There is some stupid in college that is not there in the Milb.

Running your *** off at 5:30AM is one example.

And, there are still some dumb *** coaches in college that have not been weeded out.

FO,
I enjoyed your post, how true! Not really understanding the purpose of 5:30am workouts in college other than thinking that you are providing some great motivation. Son glad his coach didn't beleive in 5:30am. Most college players don't work out come season and not forced to do so.

Don't know about anyone else, but in son's organization you don't run your a$$ off or hit the weight room in season or off season on your schedule, it's a $25 per day fine.

Now that's motivation!

The recent discussion here is an interesting read for me at this time...spending my first weekend watching our son play MiLB after 4 years of college ball.

Right now (like our son), I'm just soaking it in and smiling a lot. In a way, for me as a parent, kind of a rewind to 4 years ago.

But Fungo is right, it sure seems to me like an apples and oranges comparison. From my parental viewpoint, they're both very hard, have their own unique challenges and both are very rewarding.

But they're different and although I cannot agree with every word BigHit has written he is certainly right about a few things...in particular, we (our sons) all make choices for our (their) own reasons and there is no reason to wonder about anyone else's.

Oh, and the original question, "If you could do it all over again,....?" The answer is I (as a parent) wouldn't change a thing. Our son seems just fine about it all too.

quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:
The recent discussion here is an interesting read for me at this time...spending my first weekend watching our son play MiLB after 4 years of college ball.

Right now (like our son), I'm just soaking it in and smiling a lot. In a way, for me as a parent, kind of a rewind to 4 years ago.

But Fungo is right, it sure seems to me like and apples an oranges comparison. From my parental viewpoint, they're both very hard, have their own unique challenges and both are very rewarding.

But they're different and although I cannot agree with every word BigHit has written he is certainly right about a few things...in particular, we (our sons) all make choices for our (their) own reasons and there is no reason to wonder about anyone else's.

Oh, and the original question, "If you could do it all over again,....?" The answer is I (as a parent) wouldn't change a thing. Our son seems just fine about it all too.

Excellent post!

This has always been a fascinating topic and one of the reasons I miss bbscout. I have always accepted his opinion about the talent differences between milb and college. All that said however, it is still baseball. What we are arguing about is degrees of talent. For instance, D1 players are not twice as good as D2 players or three times as good as D3 players imho. On the whole there is more depth of good players at each corresponding level. Likewise, while there is more depth at the minor league level, not every player at the minor league level is a great player however. The best scouts and organizations are not right about every player. There are players in college who are better than players in milb. There are just more good players in milb.

It seems to me there are some similarities. My son has played against several teams who have had five or more kids drafted. He faced five Clemson pitchers who were drafted in the top three rounds - including a first and second rounder. A kid from NC State who was 6-10, clocked at 98 mph, and drafted in the first round. Several kids from North Carolina who will be or were drafted in the first round. Also faced kids from Nebraska and Texas who were drafted highly. He is now on a four hour bus ride playing a 56 game summer league schedule. Some of the bus rides are 6 hours or more across South Carolina, North Carolina, and Virginia. His league averages between 80 and 100 players drafted each year. While that is a far cry from having every player drafted as in milb, they are still matriculating with those types of players. There are some great players out there who will never be drafted and some drafted kids who are not very good. So I guess in that sense, we are talking about apples and oranges.

Bighit15 nice post. I doff my cap in respect to your empassioned eloquence in defense of what you perceive is the correct path for all MiLB parents who have sons that earned a chance to be drafted, got an offer to play in the MiLB and live the dream.

My statement regarding my advice to my son eg, kill-two-birds-with-one-stone was only arrived at after watching the train wrecks of what baseball has done to two of the greatest icons in baseball in my lifetime. Barry Bonds and Roger Clemins. Professional baseball has become a nightmare for most of our son's as in example of Josh Hamilton who in his early expereince with baseball found it to corrupt his soul and make him wish he was dead. He found he only deal with its hypocricy of unrealistic expectations by keeping himself self-medicated. It was only when he found something more important for the health of his soul that he began to realize the full potential of who he could be. But the scars of his past non-the less are imprinted on his body in the numerous tatoos he carries.

I'll be honest here with all of you...whether my son ever plays in the MLB starting with the MiLB I know at this point is problematic. But for me that is not the worse thing that could happen to him. The worse thing that could happen to him would be to lose who he is to pressures that would make him end up hating himself enough to commit slow suicide as so many of these ballplayers end up doing to themselves because everyone expects them to be perfect on the field and in their personal lives.

There is a blood sport in this country to tear down the icons of our boyhoods just so people can feel superior in the gotcha mentally that drives the sport reporting industry. My thinking for my son was to innoculate him from that as much as possible and give him the basic tools of a fine education so he wouldn't have to rely on the baseball scouts, managers, GM'S, and owners as a piece of chattel to be moved around on a chess board as part of their ego-sticks. With a college education I hope for his ability to be independent of baseball though his talent may provide him with the right to play.

Every parent has a dream for their own child, and you misinterpret the point of my post if you think I disrespect the choices you've made with regard to yours. I hope for all of your son's that they achieve their dream of playing in the "Big Show" if that is what they want for themselves ultimately.

I just think for my son that having a solid foundation of accomplishment relative to his own schooling will give him a different attitude about baseball. It will not be the beginning nor the end-all of his personna. God I hope not...for my interpretation of watching and listening to parents, sports writer's about the personal tragedies of those like Bonds, Clemins, and now Ramirez, etc and the rank hatred for them...as far as I'm concerned tarnishes the image of baseball for me.

When I was a kid I looked up to the players like Mays, McCovey, Marichal, etc but now there is a question mark hanging over every player...did he get to where he is at legitimately???

For me my advise would be to every son, get your degree, with it you don't have to be subserviant to an ungrateful system of professional baseball.

JMO

quote:

For me my advise would be to every son, get your degree, with it you don't have to be subserviant to an ungrateful system of professional baseball.

LL - you make some good points but so does BigHit. It does not have to be either or. A kid can pursue baseball and still pursue a degree at a later time IF he so desires. I don't see one path being superior to the other - just different choices we make in this free country of ours.

quote:

The recent discussion here is an interesting read for me at this time...spending my first weekend watching our son play MiLB after 4 years of college ball.

Fun, ain't it?

quote:

This has always been a fascinating topic and one of the reasons I miss bbscout. I have always accepted his opinion about the talent differences between milb and college.

Like others here, I was a "doubting Thomas" about the differences in Milb and college expressed by bbscout.

But, I did listen to his opinion and, like all of us, grew to respect him and his observations tremendously over the years.

I have also been fortunate, albeit very briefly, to observe and form my own opinion..................

The hitters are far more powerful, pitchers are throughout the roster far more talented, the speed of the players around the bases faster, as is the speed of the ball across the diamond.

It is "professional" baseball, but somehow the meaning of "professional" doesn't ring correctly until you've seen it first hand.

There is no correct path to MLB.

Each players talents, position, and risk preferences guide them individually.

The beauty of this site is to be able to observe those various paths and pick one that does fit your players talents, position, and risk preferences.

LL I agree and have always felt that way about pro ball. I much perfer watching guys play for the love of the game.
I personally would not want my son to go back to college 4 years older than most other freshmen. Going back for 1 year to finish would be okay but not for the 4 years and no college ball.
There are issues with both choices. I hve seen what happens to guys playing MiLB who wash out and depending on the guy it can be devistating.
Many players donot come into their prime until late 20s like Scott Richmond who was 29 just pitched his 1st MLB game after working as a labourer for a few years in Vancouver. H escrapped barnicles off ships. People are in such a hurry to get to their goals and are often cut short because they weren't ready.

Our A team was a rehab team as well as a development team. I have seen some of MLBs top pitchers up close just before they went back to the Jays. I am not as convinced as some of you guys.

FormerObserver said: The hitters are far more powerful, pitchers are throughout the roster far more talented, the speed of the players around the bases faster, as is the speed of the ball across the diamond.

It is "professional" baseball, but somehow the meaning of "professional" does ring correctly until you've seen it first hand.
_____________________________________________________________________________________



I think all here have been to many MLB games and understand the difference in talent, eg speed, quickness of the MLB game versus the college game athletic spectrum.

I think Bighit15 was trying to imply that I said that college baseball is better than MiLB. My post was in support of those players who played a MiLB schedule and then returned to school at the college level to find that the baseball team was working out the equivalent of their own schedules in the MiLB and on top of that were also managing an academic scxhedule.

Of course not all colleges are the same...nor are all MiLB schedules the same.

The observations were made by both ex-players and coaches who played in the MiLB. The opinion is that the schedule is much tougher in college then in the MiLB, Why? Because in the MiLB a player gets to concentrate on one thing...playing baseball. A college baseball player doesn't have that luxury and his attention and schedule requires him to manage a diverse schedule of requirements that contain multiple conflicts between class assignments needing resolution as well as accuracy of thinking, discipline of his mind, purpose and execution.

At no time did I say that college ball is better than the MiLB, didn't even infer it.

JMO

LLorton, my posts are not intentionally directed at you.

Like many others here, I have always been fascinated by the subject of the differences in Milb and college and the "best" route to MLB.

I think a unique perspective that some of us share is the transition in college baseball in May (and for some fortunate ones in the playoffs a little later) and stepping onto a minor league field just a few days, weeks, or a month later.

Justbaseball has just done that.

So, I think you gain a unique perspective as you watch the 3rd baseman wing one over to first in the minor leagues and you are accustomed to seeing a college second baseman subbing for the injured third baseman in college.

Or, you see a freshman pitcher come in during college for his first game.

The 15th pitcher on the Milb roster is a far stronger pitcher than that incoming college fresman.

My perspective is a little different here because my son had the opportunity to begin his career at Low A, as opposed to the normal short season league.

There are high school pitchers that come into minor league baseball.

They are typically far more talented than those freshman that go to even the biggest D1 schools, or they wouldn't be there.

bbscout always said.

If you want to play professional baseball get started in the minor leagues. If you want a college degree, to to school.

Minor league baseball is full-time professional baseball.

College players spend a lot of time playing baseball and going to school.

Minor league baseball players focus and spend all their time on baseball.

That is a significant difference that I did not fully appreciate until I saw it in operation.

Low A baseball is a much greater level of baseball than I ever imagined.....................

Don't let the Low A name mislead you.

quote:

When I was a kid I looked up to the players like Mays, McCovey, Marichal, etc but now there is a question mark hanging over every player...did he get to where he is at legitimately???

While the news media may lead you to ask that question of every player, I can I answer it myself for many.

And, the answer is. They do.

And, if yours gets there, he will have, too.

quote:

I hve seen what happens to guys playing MiLB who wash out and depending on the guy it can be devistating.

LL, I don't have too much problem with your observations on how impersonal, and at times, brutal the business of professional baseball can be in impacting some players.
But I am having a hard time accepting your view that Clemons, Bonds and Ramirez get included in that group. In fact, the 3 of them and those protected by the MLBPA usually have an awful lot of rights in the struggle.
I feel BHD has it right here. Players in Milb have no protection at all from a "business" and/or labor perspective. The difference between the drug testing programs at the MLB level vs Milb is clear evidence.
Players in Milb can be treated pretty mercilessly. It happens everyday that a player is on the DL with a baseball related injury. He gets "cleared" by the team MD as "ready" to play and before he can step on the field to determine if he can play or not, he is released.
There are many stories of players who are logjammed in an organization where it is clear they will never play. When they ask for their release, they are told they can retire only. Even though that player has no future with that organization, they take the position that you are their property and you will not be allowed any other option for the balance of your 6 year initial pro contract.
Stories like these happen with regularity throughout the season.
What you have is very young players will very little business background and even less knowledge of the "business of baseball" trying to survive in a business where they have no union, little to knowledge of the baseball rules but are "owned" by a management which makes and knows the rules intimately.
That does not often happen at the MLB level.
If you want to get your blood pressure elevated over things that happen in professional baseball, I can appreciate there are reasons. But I would not get mine elevated over Barry Bonds. He could care less.
But that 4th year MILB player who will be cleaning out his locker tomorrow after spending the last 30 days rehabbing an injury could be a good reason...but you will never hear about him, other than he was "released".

Great post infielddad! EVERY parent should read your post ---- print it out and carry it during the time their son is playing MiLB. However I feel as if player must ignore the harsh realities of MiLB and "Dance like nobody's watching".

j2h6,
There is no wrong choice. My son went to college although he was drafted out of HS ('02). Played college ball (and went to classes) for 3 years. Was drafted again after his junior year ('05) and played pro ball for three years and has since retired and has re-enrolled in college this fall. I didn't look at what he did as right or wrong but what mattered the most to me was how he applied himself whichever way he went.
I think there are so many variables -- so many different situations --- so many different players that no one can say "This is the way". After watching my son in all aspects of college and professional baseball I can say they are VERY different. Both are demanding and require a lot from a young man. After having been down both paths I will suggest that when a player is forced to chose between education and business to remember this: College baseball is a business --- and --- Professional baseball is an education.
Fungo

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fungo:
: College baseball is a business --- and --- Professional baseball is an education.



boy,ain't that the truth.

My son made the decision, to go to college
And I'm sure it was the right decision for him.
He was not ready mentally or physically for MiLB.

I host Minor leageur's, and this past 2 years most players We hosted were Drafted HS player's.
They were ready for the Minor's, and there bonuses also said they were ready for the Pro's??

Son was surprised though after talking to them, that they had no
Physical training program set up for them to follow during the season.
The MiLB Player's are left to figure it out on there own, there Pro's.
and expected to act like it.
In college everything is layed out in front of you by the coaches.
You will do this and you will do that.
Beside's the academic's.

I believe the College player is , let's say more Regimented to a team philosophy.

The HS Drafted player that choose the MiLB that i've come across was ready for the Pro's.

EH

I hear what LL is saying and I agree with him on many points. I agree with many others though maybe JB states it best. College ball presents its own unique challenges (and especially for a kid based off of the continent). College coaches tend be very systematic in their approach to player management, which makes it imperative that you find the right fit for your son. You don't necessarily have that ability to shop for fit in pro ball, but it could also be said that cookie cutting is somewhat less of a factor in pro player development.
Absolutely apples and oranges for me and my son, since he has no experience yet in pro ball. He took the best approach available, not having a pro option out of HS. Sometimes decisions aren't so clear cut as college or pro. No doubt the level of play is higher in the pro ranks, and the speed incomparably faster. The key for my son is he's been able to adapt while playing in a lot of different baseball environments, including international, and with many now in the MiLB ranks. He's kept in touch with many of these guys, and the feedback has been that college ball is a suitable precursor to at least A ball (the level of pro ball that son's former teammates have experienced so far), and the experiences that he's had as a college player have been much higher than the average player drafted out of HS.

quote:

Originally posted by j2h6:
I would really like to hear from all of those players and parents who as a family were faced with the difficult (or easy) decision of whether to have their player sign professionally out of high school or go to college and whether faced with the same decision all over again, would you make the same decision twice!? I understand that each decision is a personal one for each family but really trying to see if the whole college experience was sorely missed or never looked back having the opportunity to play professional baseball?

This thread has taken some twists and turns since the original question asked. Based on the date first posted, I am sure that the player has already found out how this all works and comes down and most likely headed for college. For most players coming out of HS with good alternative options, it's about money offered in lieu of giving up your scholarship. For the other half it is about beginning your professional career despite money or round offered. For son, and this was his persona