OPP, Luck really does play into it, I always hesitate to address that part of it, for fear it will be assumed that it somehow takes away from the talent, heart and dedication it takes to get there (or just survive MiLB). Sometimes, certain ones just get there through circumstances (allowing and ackowledging the simple truth that they earned it anyway). That part of baseball is not really any more fair/or unfair than life.

TPM- As you stated Randy Johnson had a problem in his delivery, well i kind of had a problem mechanically also and its crazy how i finally figured it out. i had all the rangers pitching coaches looking at me and they couldnt figure out what was wrong mechanically for nothin. Then i came home and the other day i had no one to throw with so i went out and played catch with my dad and he was like " why are you throwin all stupid for?" i was like what? and he goes " its like your leading with your elbow, do you always throw straight over the top like that" and i was thinkin no, cus i've always been 3/4 then i got to thinkin maybe my arm slot was the problem, and i dropped my arm slot to 3/4 and i've been much more accurate since, i still gotta get used to the arm slot again so i havent thrown off a mound yet with it since i've only thrown 2 days using it, but i figure i'll try it off a mound today and see how it works because my arm feels like it used to when i would throw. I just think its funny my dad may have solved the problem in a day when the rangers couldnt figure out what it was with all their expertise involved.

AHS, Same thing happened with college son, coaches were not helping, he came home and Dad fixed it on the second throw.
Just remember this too, a sports psych. can help even if you don't have a pressing problem, they can teach you tools to strengthen your g

game brain. Sorry about that.

Shane,

Sometimes Dad's know more about you than others do. For sure Dad's (and Mom's) care a lot more.

Don’t want to bore people, or change the topic again, but it goes along with the recent posts. Here is what we operated off of as a baseball team. I have posted this elsewhere. It may or may not mean anything to most people, but it’s simple enough that I can even understand it.

Talent
Effort
Intelligence
Luck

Those four categories cover it all when it comes to winning or being successful. All other things fall under one of those four categories in some way. Those four things also work together nicely ie. The more intelligent you are, the more likely you are to give the necessary effort and that effort will allow you to improve your talent and your intelligence. The combination of talent, effort and intelligence will give you an advantage when it comes to luck.

Note: The intelligence above pertains to much more than an IQ score.

I don't want to speak for Zach Duke or OPP, but he is one of many great examples of utilizing all 4 ingredients.

Best of luck Shane, I've sent you another PM.

PG,
I would agree with each of your criterion for what it takes to succeed. But I do think there is, in professional baseball, a fifth aspect. It could fall under luck but not fully.
What I feel can make a huge difference is organizational attitudes and approaches in minor league systems. Since our son was one of those 2nd day guys, and from a DIII, I tried to watch how other similar round picks and DIII guys did, especially when they played the same position. Just from playing time/at bats/progress through the organization, I came to conclude there can be significant differences in the opportunities that second day guys can "earn."
To illustrate, ours was a 25th rounder and another DIII MI was a 22nd rounder with another organization. Both were assigned to short season A and both got zero playing time, initially. After about 2 weeks, both got some AB's and playing time. By the end of the season, our son ended up with over 130 AB's and the other player less than 50.
The next season they were both in low A. Both had no AB's for the first two weeks. By the end of that season, our son had over 500 AB's and the other player was released.
While I would like to think that talent, intelligence, effort and luck all played a role, I also strongly believe organizational attitudes to player development can be almost as critical for those who are picked on day 2 of the draft. Some are just more patient, and look harder, than others.
Perhaps the best illustration is David Eckstein. The Red Sox wanted little to do with him and the Angels provided an organizational minor league structure where he could play and be seen.
While luck is involved, I like to think of "luck" in terms of things somewhat under the player's control. Who drafts you and how they view 2nd day picks seems to vary widely, and it is certainly nothing the player can control.

quote:

Originally posted by AHSpitcher17:
I just think its funny my dad may have solved the problem in a day when the rangers couldnt figure out what it was with all their expertise involved.

Shane:

I'm a dad of a pitcher too - so please understand my rather biased perspective - but I think Dads can often see things that others can't.

How many hours have you spent over the years playing catch with your dad? How many hours has he spent watching you at pitching lessons, bullpens, and games? Probably in the 1000s of hours.

I may not be a pitching coach - but I know how my kid throws the ball - and when something is different I will see it right away. Your dad is probably even more aware than I am given the length of your career.

Pitching coaches are great - don't get me wrong - but Dad/Moms can play an important role as well.

Something else to try - if you have any video taken from when you were throwing well - like in your senior year of high school - go back there, take another video from as close to the same angle as possible. Then watch both videos, side by side on two TVs with your dad/high school coach or anyone else who knows you well. I bet patterns emerge that you can work on....

08

Nice post Infield Dad.

This is just a great thread.

I don't know much about the minor league system, but I do think that infielddad gives good insight. I have heard that some milb coaches won't mess with a pitchers delivery if he is getting batters out. And for many organizations, they won't go looking for a gem they may have picked up for hardly nothing. For many who speak about higher draft picks going to college and not signing, sometimes their decision is based upon the team that drafts them, not the $$$$. The object should be to get to the top level, with the best instruction you can. That may not be right but that is IMO.
This is one of the things I do not like about the game.I think that is why son's pitching coach spends so much time with his pitchers and catchers, to get them ready for the next level. Constant tweeking, changes, learning new stuff, never stops.

Listening to an interview with Dan Ugla. He said his skills were just horrible, he was able to get by with his ahtleticism, but needed lots of work when he came up into MLB (he had been traded from another team). He said that development between teams, development between minor league systems and their parent MLB team was so very different, his best instruction when he reached the top. He said he is still a work in progress.

quote:

08dad posted: How many hours have you spent over the years playing catch with your dad? How many hours has he spent watching you at pitching lessons, bullpens, and games? Probably in the 1000s of hours.

I would guess no one has watched a pitcher throw more baseballs than his dad, except perhaps his mom.

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:

quote:

08dad posted: How many hours have you spent over the years playing catch with your dad? How many hours has he spent watching you at pitching lessons, bullpens, and games? Probably in the 1000s of hours.

I would guess no one has watched a pitcher throw more baseballs than his dad, except perhaps him mom.

Apologies to all of the moms out there - I can not believe that I blew this one... Of course - all of my post above applies to the Moms as well...

I think I will go back to bed and pull the covers over my head...

08

I would guess that the moms on this website know pretty much about their players,BUT.. They're the exception, the minority. Most moms adore their boys but really don't know much about mechanics.(or they pretend they don't)
But most of the moms on this website know MORE than about ALL the dads I know! So in general you were ok but for the moms reading this you got the foot in the mouth somehow.
There have been times where I knew something wasn't quite right with the little guy but could not for the life of me fix it. Older brother takes about 2 minutes, do this, do that and stop doing this and presto! Good as new! Now why couldn't I do that?

quote:

Now why couldn't I do that?

Cause like most dad's, you guys are busy doing 101 bazillion others things " right ".

Gotta leave a little somethin' for the rest of us to do once in a while,..or it just wouldn't be fair!

And I always thought Moms were busier than DADs

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Shane,

Sometimes Dad's know more about you than others do. For sure Dad's (and Mom's) care a lot more.

Amen! Not only that but in some instances the coaches have the job because of the old saying "Its not what you know, it's who you know"

TR, not busier, just more productive
...just kidding

Shane,

I still remember seeing you pitch in East Cobb in 2004. Since then I have always read your posts with great interest.

I have great appreciation for the way you post with openness and honesty about your thoughts...your ups and downs. It is of great value to those who wish to glance at the road ahead of them.

quote:

Sometimes Dad's know more about you than others do. For sure Dad's (and Mom's) care a lot more.

This quote by PG really has many, many truths behind it. Your dad has watched you throw and pitch since you were little and he and your mom can undoubtedly see very quickly whether its the same or not. I've actually heard a scout tell a parent exactly that. So good for your dad and good for you to be open to listen to him.

Please know that I am wishing you the very best as you navigate the next few months.

I don't profess to know a thing about MiLB, but after reading some of these posts I feel like I know a bit more now than when I started off. I hope the info shared on this thread contines to grow, as it's becoming quite useful to the current and next generations of baseball families that are lucky enough to access it.
Shane, I've followed your posts on this site with great interest, and I'll continue to follow your career as it progresses. With your great attitude and obvious desire, I would be surprised if you don't get another chance at your dream. Best of luck to you Shane.

AHSPITCHER17,
I know what you are going through looking through a mother's eyes. My son was also released in March. My heart broke for him. He had played 4 years of college baseball, he is 6'4, 215lbs LHP throws low to mid 90's, he did not get drafted but did have a great opportunity to play in the Independant League last summer for one month, came back to work with his college baseball team after the season was over, then was picked up and signed as a free agent. He was so excited, his dream was coming true to play in the minors until March. They had woke him up at 6:30 that morning to pack his things and meet them at the clubhouse, He said that he had that feeling in the pit of his stomach when he arrived and where he received his released. He had to drive 8 hours to come home and to wonder what will he do next. His "former" team mates called him from spring training and told him not to "Give Up". He had called his team from last summer to play with them but their roster was full. He had a contract with them when the (MLB)minors release him that if he wants to continue to play baseball he would have to come back with them. Well they also had to release him b/c of the full roster, that was another big blow for him in the same day. He made another phone call to the coach from the independant league which was hired by a MLB team. The coach made a phone to another Independant league for my son, by the time he had gotten home he had 3 teams calling him from the same league to play ball. We had found out that someone from the MLB team had made a phone call.
He was like a new kid again. He will be leaving at the end of the month. See, he did not get drafted, so no money was invested in him, he signed as a free agent so it was like "Last one hired first one fired". Please do not give up on your dreams. Contact each Independant League and their teams, send them your resume'. My son did it last year and he was picked up within a month.

Good Luck with You!!!

Can't thank the poster's enough for this thread. As a parent of a HS senior on the front end of this process and the MLB draft, this has been the best education I could have hoped for.

And Shane, I didn't know who you were a few hours ago, but now I can say I'm a fan and you've done a huge service to a lot of kids just by putting your thoughts and experience out here.

Good luck.