TPM, I respectfully see your point. However, Brien Taylor didn't sign for what he did becausee of cost of living increases nor did all the other players.
The steady decline is because of the players union in the big leagues. But the decline is so minimal.
Posts: 448 | Location: TX | Registered: October 18, 2005
Vance, I see your point also, but bonus' have declined, regardless of whatever reason, when you pointed out they were not. The BA article is an interesting read, if you have the issue. Decline from 2001 to 2006 almost a mil and a half not minimal. And again, those are the lucky ones who get the big bonus, and besides you sign because you want to start your pro career, right, regardless of money, though that can buy a lot of dishwashers!
Actually Dad04 maybe on to something , regardless mine plays for nothing and loves it, maybe someday he and a lot of our kids will get paid to play.
Posts: 11036 | Location: South Florida | Registered: July 28, 2003
TPM, I see your angle/ point. My point was that the money is pretty darn good for Opprotunity without any results vs Big League players. Here look over these numbers for last 6 years.
2000 High bonus per round
1.$5,300,000
sw $1,050,000
2.$2,750,000
3.$2,000,000
4.$1,250,000
5.$500,000
6.$375,000
7.$175,000
8.$225,000
9.$190,000
10.$90,000
2001 draft
1 $5,150,000
sw $2,000,000
2. $2,000,000
3. $725,000
4. $500,000
5. $400,000
6. $825,000
7. $1,000,000
8. $170,000
9. $325,000
10.$135,000
2002
1. $4,600,000
sw $1,200,000
2. $1,000,000
3. $950,000
4. $375,000
5. $300,000
6. $250,000
7. $250,000
8. $185,000
9. $240,000
10. $120,000
2003 draft
1. $3,396,018
sw $1,025,000
2. $2,070,000
3. $512,500
4. $400,000
5. $300,000
6. $500,000
7. $210,000
8. $150,000
9. $90,000
10. $1,050,000
2004 draft
1. $3,150,000
sw $1,017,500
2. $1,260,000
3. $2,142,989
4. $650,000
5. $224,500
6. $160,000
7. $300,000
8. $432,000
9. $550,000
10. $449,945
2005 draft
1. $6,100,000
sw $1,025,000
2. $725,500
3. $725,000
4. $500,000
5. $220,000
6. $152,500
7. $250,000
8. $800,000
9. $235,000
10. $325,000
Posts: 448 | Location: TX | Registered: October 18, 2005
Vance, You can't go by high pick low pick because some teams have more money to give later on depending on circumstances. You have to take each year, figure out an average for each round that year to get a better result. Nice try though .
Posts: 11036 | Location: South Florida | Registered: July 28, 2003
TPM, as you'll see there isn't a significant drop in avg bonus money paid out per round since 2000. Some rounds are slightly lower from year to year BUT there are also rounds where its slightly higher from year to year.
You always say TPM,that its a pipe dream. That only a few are invloved. Well, when you compare our population and ALL the kids who play baseball then only count those that are draft elgible your talking about a lot of players. Only about 1500 get selected every year. But if you'll look at Rounds 7-10 and I could include Rounds 11-18 as well. But for the study here. I'll just use through round 10. Rounds 7,8,9,10 all payed on avg. a Higher bonus than in the year 2000.
I only listed these figures to show that the draft amounts are NOT substantially smaller as implied(another poster in the thread).
When you compare the 2000 draft and the 2005 draft. On avg. for the top 10 rounds(because of this study) the total money paid out was:
2000 5,082,002 2005 5,177,789
in 05 was 1st year for comp C picks which is after the 2rd round. That avg. amount was 462,500 in 05 draft.
So TPM, as you requested, here are your results.
Posts: 448 | Location: TX | Registered: October 18, 2005
TPM, saw where you said BA said bonus money was down when comparing 2001 to 2006. We will have to wait until all guys are signed for 2006 figures BUT when we compare 2001 to 2005 again there is not a significant change to even warrant an argument. Again, this is based on what you would consider the best ave. to look at this from and thats the avg money paid out per round.
2001 was $5,271,156 2005 was $5,177,789
Maybe the top few guys are getting less, BUT there are MORE PLAYERS getting more bonus money now than in years past! Which should be something that you and all others should be happy about.
Posts: 448 | Location: TX | Registered: October 18, 2005
Vance, Thanks! That was a good excercise for you when you need to discuss bonus round money with a prospect!
I think this thread has run it's course, but let me make one thing clear, I have never, that I can remember, might be wrong though said here it is a pipe dream. What I have stated is that it is a personal decision, may be determeined by a lot of different factors. Those factors include bonus money offered by round, school attending, scholarship amount or just the prospect's desire to begin working at 17,18 (yes it IS a job) or the desire to go to college first. Because you might desire to go to college first does not mean you will be giving up "the dream" to be a MLB player some day. I know that you have told me that since my son was never drafted it is wrong of me to give advice, but that is entirely wrong statment on your part. We actually were one of those who had very difficult decision, get drafted first 10 rounds or go to school, with an excellent program, with a coach who has had over 90 players drafted in 12 years, some first rounders and major league players. So for him , that was a good choice. It is important for all of us to try to help parents and players to understand the ENTIRE process from college recruiting to draft possibilities. As stated there are two sides to the coin, and should NOT be about whether you get a mil or 5K but the desire to begin your pro career earlier. If someone thinks that they are worth more to give up college, then that is their perogative to do so or not.
For most of our sons they all want to go onto play ball for a living. But not all of our sons are the same, some choose different ways to get there and some never get the chance while some do. It's all about finally reaching the final stage, going on to play in the show, for as long as you can. How and when you get there is based upon your ability and your willingness to work hard for the opportunity beginning at 17,18,19,20,21,22 or 23. Trying to convince someone to sign so he can buy his mom a dishwasher makes no sense to me!
JMO.
Posts: 11036 | Location: South Florida | Registered: July 28, 2003
Originally posted by Vance34: TPM, saw where you said BA said bonus money was down when comparing 2001 to 2006. We will have to wait until all guys are signed for 2006 figures BUT when we compare 2001 to 2005 again there is not a significant change to even warrant an argument. Again, this is based on what you would consider the best ave. to look at this from and thats the avg money paid out per round.
2001 was $5,271,156 2005 was $5,177,789
Maybe the top few guys are getting less, BUT there are MORE PLAYERS getting more bonus money now than in years past! Which should be something that you and all others should be happy about.
So, adjusted for inflation, bonuses are down about 14%!
No argument here on your math, but I don't think the root of the discussion is the $1+ million bonus babies. 2nd round money alone drops by 60%-70%. This is a long-term, life decision.
By the way, am I wrong that the MLB scholarship plan has a timeclock on it? It is my understanding that once you start to use it, the $ remains available to you for a finite amount of time.
OLD Slugger. You my friend have put the last NAIL in the COFFIN.
It's a no brainer and has nothing to do with SHEPS dishwashers!
There is NOT A COLLEGE IN THE COUNTRY that will give a GRADUATE a BONUS to graduate plus pay for ALL of the school cost too. Thanks Old Slugger.
TPM, I did not say it was bad for you to give advice. I did say you shouldn't be biased to the college side. But I must say I have enjoyed our latest discussion. Hope your son finished strong in his summer league. Have a blessed day.
Posts: 448 | Location: TX | Registered: October 18, 2005
OS8, Very good post, however MOST will NEVER see that kind of bonus. Only a few, and the majority have gone to college in the first round. I am NOT talking about turning down the million, but how about the one who is faced with the smaller amount? How about the consideration of WHICH organization drafts you? Where you will spend your time in minor leagues, how your organization handles those out of HS, will they be far away or close to home? That should be a very important part of the decision.
Posts: 11036 | Location: South Florida | Registered: July 28, 2003
quote: Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom: Vance, Thanks! That was a good excercise for you when you need to discuss bonus round money with a prospect! As stated there are two sides to the coin, and should NOT be about whether you get a mil or 5K but the desire to begin your pro career earlier. JMO.
The overall post was very good. But the line I retained is really the heart of the discussion.
$1,000,000 wisely handled after taxes and agent commissions would be around $600,000 to the bank.
Lets say the boy doesn't need the Corvette right away, but a nicer place to live in MILB and better eats.
Todays rates of return should garner 8%.
So decide on this:
$600,000 in the bank earns a pre-tax amount of $48,000 annually. Lets leave tax-deferred vehicles out of this.
Do you want the above plus the start of your pro career? Or do you want 3 years of the college experience, and let the draft chips fall when the time comes?
Toss in the MLB scholarship plan option, and it gets tougher. Those boys who try pro and never excercize the college scholarship option probably meant to never use it anyway?
Assume the boys gets bounced from pro ball after 4 years. The money in the bank can be well over $800,000. Go to school for 4 years, free of charge, let the dough sit longer, and you got a kid graduating from college with $1,000,000 in the bank.
Do you want the college experience? Do you want, or need the college baseball experience?
I think the MONEY/INVESTMENT is the basis, the rule, and not the exception!!
Very good post Slugger.
Posts: 448 | Location: TX | Registered: October 18, 2005
OS8, Obviously you are rationalizing about life changing cash. Every high schooler drafted in the first round this year signed, for $1,300,000 and up. Obviously few first rounders have turned down pro ball, just one in the last 4 years, Wade Townsend. It's sort of a moot point with little to discuss.
TPM is right. The point where there is debate starts in the 2nd or 3rd round at about $500,000 to $600,000 before taxes and fees. Several 2nd and 3rd rounders have yet to sign out of high school with classes to begin in 2 weeks for many. $300,000 net in the bank is what it is, but some kids still hesitate there, not in the 1st round.
Andrew Miller was a 3rd rounder in high school and got over $3M this year. Hmm. He gambled and won. Others gamble and lose.
Posts: 4844 | Location: Florida | Registered: December 26, 2002
Dad 04, Wade Townsend isn't the only one. Jared Weaver, Stephen Drew, Luke Hochevar, just to name a few. There are others like Stephens brother (JD) with the Dodgers now. Matt Harrington turned down 4 million in the 1st round. There are others. Just do a little research before you throw comments out there, please.
Posts: 448 | Location: TX | Registered: October 18, 2005
Obviously few first rounders have turned down pro ball, just one in the last 4 years , Wade Townsend.
Vance
AND Hochover. Sorry. Incidently, he profited $2M re-drafting. Harrington was first drafted when, in the late 90's? He made a huge mistake. I think we are all aware of that ancient history. Weaver and Drew skipped school and signed for huge money big league contracts before the next draft. You might try actually reading a post before commenting, and a little homework yourself, "pro".
My original point remains. Only one, uh, two has turned down 1st round $$ in 2003, 2004 ,2005 ,or 2006, college kids. High schoolers all sign in the 1st. Water is wet, by the way.
I'm done with rude posters.
Posts: 4844 | Location: Florida | Registered: December 26, 2002
Hey guys, since he's a "Tennessee Homeboy", let's get it right.
It's Hochevar, not Hochover or Hochaver.
I among others, was beginning to get highly critical of Luke and his holdout. Looks like he came out ok. btw - Luke has been nothing but an outstanding citizen and ambassador for the University of Tennessee in and around Knoxville. Knowing what I knew of Luke, I was surprised at the holdout, but he obviously had a couple of million reasons.
, regardless mine plays for nothing and loves it, maybe someday he and a lot of our kids will get paid to play.
