quote:

Originally posted by Shepster:
Your absolutely right Jerry with everything you just said and one delayed gratification case that jumps out at me right after I just read your post is Todd Helton who only received a $50,000 dollar bonus due to knee concerns out of Tenn. Look how much he ended up with. peace, Shep

I give up, you post round money 2 times, go on about our sons buying us dishwashers putting significance on signing for money, once in a lifetime opportunity for financial freedom from mom and dad then go ahead and post the above.

PG, thanks for your input.

PG Staff posted:

quote:

It’s an individual thing… I really like those kids who are willing to play for practically nothing.

I like'em too. I have one.

Signability: Very Important
Opportunity: Very Important
Rent and Grocery Money: Very Important

It's a personal decision the player needs to make, if he can afford to, and not look back. Just look both ways before stepping off the curb.

At the risk of getting the list re-posted, nobody really cares what any other kid signed for. It did not change my life for one second, either time it was posted. I can certainly find that data if I ever need it.

Unless I counted wrong, 17 of 30 1st rounders and 43 of 74 in 1st 2 rounds were signed out of college!!!!

Your right 04Dad, never give up TPM. You know thats my motto.

Just thought the board needed to decide by perusing these huge bonuses. (some need to see them over and over for it to sink in just how much money we're talking about here.) A lifetime of wages for most HS picks in first ten rounds. What part of lifetime of hard-labor/wages do we not understand? peace, Shep
ancient proverb: a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush

Vance34 says to Shep the following:

quote:

I also have a scout trip today and one you'd have to buy a ticket to.

Vance34, How arrogant of you sir throwing this in my face just because you are a full-time scout. Hate to disappoint your statement, but the recent position I have just accepted pays for my trip too if you're lucky enough to be going where I'm going which I doubt if your just a territory scout because territory scouts are not in the budget for this trip with most teams, but thanks for sniping PEACE

Median bonus paid 2003-2005: $90,700.

Uhm..hardly lifetime income in most neighborhoods. Its a good thing its really about the opportunity and the journey, and not the dough, because I don't see any meaningful money below round 3, with a few exeptions. If it was actually about the money, few would sign out of college below the 100th pick.

Pick Bonus Avg 2003-2005.
1 $4,316,600
2 $3,573,300
3 $3,250,000
4 $2,308,300
5 $2,250,000
6 $2,425,000
7 $2,150,000
8 $1,850,000
9 $2,600,000
10 $2,208,300
11 $1,953,300
12 $2,625,000
13 $1,708,300
14 $1,515,000
15 $2,390,000
16 $1,683,300
17 $1,558,300
18 $1,537,500
19 $1,516,600
20 $1,533,300
21 $1,466,600
22 $1,358,300
23 $1,366,600
24 $1,250,000
25 $1,236,600
26 $1,325,000
27 $1,283,300
28 $1,058,300
29 $1,066,600
30 $1,016,600
31 $1,016,600
32 $1,017,600
33 $997,500
34 $975,000
35 $950,000
36 $950,000
37 $925,000
38 $883,300
39 $883,300
40 $832,500
41 $805,000
42 $791,600
43 $800,000
44 $775,000
45 $777,500
46 $1,156,600
47 $726,600
48 $695,000
49 $633,300
50 $676,600
51 $670,000
52 $708,300
53 $686,800
54 $700,000
55 $630,000
56 $656,600
57 $616,600
58 $605,000
59 $585,000
60 $616,600
61 $755,000
62 $590,000
63 $565,600
64 $625,000
65 $571,600
66 $793,300
67 $583,300
68 $527,500
69 $508,000
70 $517,500
71 $501,600
72 $440,000
73 $496,600
74 $481,600
75 $487,500
76 $451,600
77 $460,800
78 $381,600
79 $458,300
80 $458,000
81 $465,000
82 $461,600
83 $441,600
84 $360,000
85 $450,000
86 $439,000
87 $347,500
88 $427,500
89 $359,500
90 $414,800
91 $420,000
92 $353,300
93 $973,300
94 $420,000
95 $366,600
96 $451,600
97 $355,000
98 $396,600
99 $470,000
100 $363,300
101 $346,600
102 $375,000
103 $375,000
104 $336,200
105 $348,300
106 $320,000
107 $428,300
108 $315,000
109 $275,000
110 $351,300
111 $300,000
112 $278,300
113 $270,000
114 $313,500
115 $268,300
116 $247,500
117 $225,000
118 $351,600
119 $295,000
120 $256,600
121 $267,500
122 $208,300
123 $207,500
124 $255,000
125 $185,100
126 $220,000
127 $245,800
128 $263,300
129 $241,100
130 $238,300
131 $188,300
132 $142,700
133 $224,800
134 $216,700
135 $156,700
136 $210,700
137 $206,700
138 $165,000
139 $205,200
140 $219,200
141 $200,000
142 $191,700
143 $191,700
144 $187,500
145 $180,000
146 $141,700
147 $180,000
148 $178,800
149 $175,000
150 $180,000
151 $173,700
152 $170,000
153 $170,000
154 $169,200
155 $118,300
156 $108,000
157 $175,000
158 $148,300
159 $142,700
160 $174,000
161 $180,000
162 $103,700
163 $154,000
164 $147,700
165 $158,500
166 $116,300
167 $103,300
168 $119,700
169 $148,300
170 $105,000
171 $150,000
172 $142,800
173 $130,000
174 $144,000
175 $95,000
176 $149,000
177 $103,300
178 $108,300
179 $164,200
180 $120,000
181 $113,300
182 $105,800
183 $133,500
184 $233,300
185 $134,300
186 $143,300
187 $115,800
188 $112,500
189 $122,500
190 $104,200
191 $136,700
192 $65,500
193 $119,300
194 $128,300
195 $143,500
196 $124,200
197 $131,700
198 $156,700
199 $95,000
200 $58,300
201 $60,800
202 $125,000
203 $136,300
204 $106,700
205 $96,700
206 $72,500
207 $85,000
208 $77,800
209 $123,300
210 $38,800
211 $87,300
212 $110,700
213 $70,000
214 $110,000
215 $103,300
216 $129,700
217 $90,000
218 $75,800
219 $177,000
220 $60,000
221 $72,300
222 $35,300
223 $101,000
224 $100,000
225 $150,000
226 $98,300
227 $77,500
228 $66,800
229 $85,000
230 $38,200
231 $48,300
232 $93,300
233 $65,800
234 $63,300
235 $45,500
236 $57,500
237 $39,000
238 $158,300
239 $94,700
240 $97,500
241 $48,300
242 $59,200
243 $59,200
244 $91,700
245 $205,000
246 $190,000
247 $51,700
248 $25,000
249 $55,000
250 $51,000
251 $50,000
252 $13,000
253 $68,800
254 $170,000
255 $52,500
256 $47,700
257 $76,700
258 $61,700
259 $317,500
260 $51,200
261 $44,300
262 $63,300
263 $62,200
264 $60,000
265 $87,300
266 $48,800
267 $69,200
268 $73,300
269 $55,000
270 $45,000
271 $70,300
272 $41,300
273 $61,700
274 $230,000
275 $53,300
276 $43,300
277 $51,700
278 $58,300
279 $104,500
280 $79,000
281 $93,300
282 $357,500
283 $90,700
284 $56,300
285 $240,000
286 $35,500
287 $61,000
288 $65,000
289 $27,500
290 $24,200
291 $60,000
292 $74,300
293 $57,500
294 $18,700
295 $58,300
296 $10,700
297 $41,500
298 $59,200
299 $36,700
300 $39,800
Median: $90,700

UNCLE!!!!

quote:

A lifetime of wages for most HS picks in first ten rounds

That's great statistical data there 04Dad but my comment related to HS signees not all together collectively with college and HS all mixed together as in your statistical database presentation of the median. You will find that median statistical number "much" higher in HS picks only as in the premise for my above quoted statement. I still have to agree with LOW'S response though.....UNCLE!!!!!!

Slugger

Somebody will need to chip in for the minor leaguer making $5,500 a year, after he's socked away that lifetime-of-income bonus of his, till he gets to the show, if he gets there. Who gets that bill?

If I was an scout, the last thing I would bring up is the money. Money comes and goes, most times very quickly. I would sell the opportunity, just as hard to the 1498th pick, as the 1st pick. The money will come if the opportunity is seized and exploited by those with the courage to play with the big boys.

I would ask my draftee "do you have what it takes? Do you have the rocks to put it all out there? Well... Do ya?"

Yes, take out the senior signs and the median goes up. High schoolers only signing for bigger money does not strengthen your argument though Shep. Besides, money is irrevelant (till you run out), imo.

UNCLE!!

SO PICK # 1498 AND PICK #1

**** will be treated identically?

There is a sound reason, I guess, as to why somebody is #1 and # 1498

The money is an INVESTMENT. Do they really care about # 1498 with zero invested?

I only read about the off field troubles of the kids in Durham, not that pick # 1498 was busted for a drunken bar fight in Cowpoke after a tough A ball loss...........

because nobody cares, no INVESTMENT was made.

Is that accurate?

OK. Maybe #1498 is not the same as #1. I would not lie to a kid. A DNF is just that. My point is that if I'm signing a high schooler or juco kid with options for $50,000 or $100,000, then I'm selling the dream.

They do care about the 1498 pick if he shows them he is a prospect. As long as a player is a "prospect" to the Club, he will not be released . no matter what he was signed for. However, the more money invested the longer he gets to prove himself.

Loads of band width being used up on stuff that can be found on other sites --AND we have two supposed scouts arguing about who gets paid what and where and when---really makes you wonder about these two individuals doesn't it when they as suppposed scouts cannot agree about payment for scouts--VErrrrrrry Interesting

QUOTE]Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
Shep,
Again, you keep bringing up the money issue with the bonus bucks. Very few get rich from signing bonus, we all know the big $$ come later on, when and if you do make it. And signing bonus' are WAY down from what tehy used to be, the result, more and more going to college first, because it is a lot about the signing bonus to them and their parents.

How about this scenerio, which could be a very USUAL one. A HS player drafted in the 14th round, gets 140K, his college education would have been paid mostly by a great scholarship, to top 10 school. I haven't heard or seen his name mentioned once in three years, if he had gone to college you would know who he is, he was a top ranked player in HS. Good choice?

Obviously for HIM it was, he wanted to go pro more than go to college (this was not a pitcher by the way but a hitter who could have gotten his at bats in college), but for others, may not be the right choice.

Don't continue to place a price tag on it. Go back and read Gratefuls first paragraph.

And why would you have to pay for a college education when there is the MLB scholarship program, a good selling point for going pro, right?

College vs. pro is about knowing what you really want to do, though for a HS player never away from home may be difficult. It's important to talk about it early and NOT string others along until your name is called. If you really want to go pro and work, SIGN. But if you also want to go pro and earn most of your degree, experience college life and the college baseball experience, it CAN be accomplished just by seeing how many players ARE drafted out of college.

Discussion is good, always. It's important for parents and player to know the issues on both sides of the coin toss. However, this Is NOT a MLB or minor league website, this is a site where most of our players WILL go to college first. FYI, we didn't even have a thread for pro players, but many of the parents who first came here many moons ago, have college players who have gone pro.

I look upon the scout the same as a college recruiter, they are BOTH salesman, one selling their school the other selling his team. Each tends to leave out lots of the particulars in the visit. If it wasn't so confusing, people wouldn't be here asking questions. I found MOST scouts to be more up front than some college recruiters, but only because we had done our homework asked questions and I did here on teh HSBBW. MANY players I know who turned down going pro was NOT because they really wanted to go to college, but because they didn't get offered what they felt they were worth. A FEW players I know turned down really BIG money because they really wanted to go to college first.
That's why we have the HSBBW, so some of us can give information (not all good, not all bad) for those that have questions. I as a PARENT with a son who had to make a tough decision will always tell someone, if asked, the good and the bad on both sides. For mine, the college experience is turning out to be a great one and he is happy. I am sure if he had gone pro out of HS he would be happy as well. Did we want him to go to college first, yes, he was a very good student, if things would have been different, a fair student who didn't do well with a lesser oportunity, most probably he would have been drafted in the 6th, 7th round and signed. So I am NOT entirely PRO college, just want to let parents know there is an upside and a downside to any decision their son will make.

JMO[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
To "Tiger Paw Mom":
Although I am listed as a "new" member, I was a member some years before...just had to re-register in order to make this posting. I have frequently looked at the postings on the HSBBW site, but not every day. I just wanted to comment to you that of all the postings/discussions on the topic "Pro vs. College" yours was by far the best and the least biased in either direction. Your commentary was RIGHT ON! I don't remember if you got the rebuttal from either "The Shepster" or "Vance34" of "...you don't get it!" or not...I think that response was mostly between them and "TRHit," but, if they did, I am here to say that you most assuredly DO GET IT! As you so accurately state in your post, "..most HS players don't really get the big bucks...".And, unless the bucks are potentially life changing, IMO $1million or north thereof, why do it or at least even consider it? I do know of one player in our area who allegedly turned down $1.3 million to attend college and play D-1 ball. Now after all taxes, fees, etc. this would mean a lifetime income, at a rate of only 6%..not the 10% one of the guys mentioned... of approximately $51,000 per year for life without ever having to touch the principle amount of approx. $850K...ever. And the college fund on top of that! At first I felt the player...or at least his parents...to be mentally challenged! But after reading your post, and reconsideration, I realized that, as you eloquently stated, the most important thing is for your son to be happy and at peace with the difficult decision. Your son is happy with his decision to go on and except what I'm sure is a very fine scholarship to a very fine school...I'm assuming that the school is Clemson. Bottomline he's happy. And another good point which you made is that the players, most of the time, don't get a bonus of the same zipcode at least as what to what they think they should get. My son felt this way also, and has decided to accept a very magnanimous scholarship to a very prestigious D-1, with a great academic reputation as well, and which was in the CWS in Omaha last year. Like your boy, my son has NOT given up on his dream of playing in MLB...in fact, in going to two great D-1 schools with great BB programs, they both may have even augmented their chances and potential bonus bucks. Only time will tell..and hard work. Just wanted to let you know that your comments on "College vs. Pro" were highly intelligent, and "right on", and easily the best of the lot! Good luck to you and your son.

If you will notice, I too acknowledged TPM with her excellent post a few pages back.

Glad to have you here 435Hitter. Your not going to believe this, but that was my college lifetime batting average at USC-Aiken. What are the odds of that?? Incredible. Are you an agent?

Once again, welcome back and good luck to you and your son!

Peace,
Shep

quote:

Originally posted by Shepster:
Are you an agent?

Check the profile, INVESTMENTS.

435,
Thanks for the kind words.

Mine was no where near $1.3M..lol. However if you asked him today, what he would do, for 1.3M, bet it would be he'd do it all over again the same way!

Welcome back and best of luck to your son.

quote:

Very few get rich from signing bonus, we all know the big $$ come later on, when and if you do make it. And signing bonus' are WAY down from what tehy used to be, the result, more and more going to college first

Bonuses are down? WAY DOWN? From WHEN THEY USED TO BE?

Give me a break.

1985 BJ Surhoff 150,000
1986 Jeff King 160,000
1987 Ken Griffey Jr. 169,000
1988 Andy Benes 235,000
1989 Ben McDonald 350,000
1990 Chipper Jones 275,000
1991 Brien Taylor 1.550,000
1992 Phil Nevin 700,000
1993 A Rod 1,000,000
1994 Paul Wilson 1,550,000
1995 Darin Erstad 1,600,000
1996 Kris Benson 2,000,000
1997 Matt Anderson 2,500,000
1998 Pat Burrell 3.150,000
1999 Josh Hamilton 3,960,000
2000 Adrian Gonzalez 3,000,000
2001 Joe Mauer 5,100,000
2002 Brian Bullington 4,000,000
2003 Delmon Young 3,700,000
2004 Matt Bush 3,150,000
2005 Justin Upton 6,000,000

Also, WHY? Does an amatuer player think he needs to get rich on his amatuer play.

If you wanta get rich go produce in the Minors and play your way to the big leagues. EARN IT and don't expect it based on high school and college play.

Vance34,
If the club's are willing to pay a player that much then the Kid earned it.
I do feel you have to pay your Due's in the Minor League's.
And that could be at 18 are whenever.
Whenever that Player feels he has the best chance of advancing in the PRO's.
After HS are after College.

#1 pick received 5,100,000 in 2001 and then the decline began. Justin Upton was a rare exception. Hochever signed for 3,500,000. Yes a lot more than back in 1996 but everything is in relation to the cost of living.
Go back and study the draft rounds last 5 years.

There was an article in BA recently regarding why the steady decline. The wide spread use of the internet (no secrets on draft day) and pre draft deals. You can argue with them on this one.

Vance
Why don't the kids just pay the clubs to play and the parents can pay the clubs to watch the games. Oh wait...we already did that. It's called travel ball.