quote:

Hey Tiger Mom. I know for a fact that you know all about agentts and advisors. How many have you had? Find one that see's it like you yet?

That was a pretty mean thing to say. If you are one sided in your beliefs then you will never learn from others who don't always agree with you. Try to keep an open mind

This is always an interesting topic of discussion, though it's too bad when the discussion gets a bit rude. Thank you bbscout for always being a voice of reason and very professional. Your depth of experience and your comments here are really appreciated.

The one point that I keep agreeing with throughout the arguments back and forth is that it is a very personal decision and each player needs to decide what his priorities are.

What is your favorite food? I may be allergic to it. What is my favorite food? You may hate it!

What is your dream career? Oh, that sounds boring to me! What is the best job I've ever had? That sounds like torture to you!

There are adults who chose careers because they paid well and ended up bored and unhappy. Others chose a career that was their passion, like medicine or law, and just happened to make very good money at it. How would anyone looking from the outside know how that person arrived at their career decision, money or love?

How important is it to go to college right after high school and earn that degree? I earned a BA right after HS and have always worked in professional jobs, but never one that was directly related to my degree. My husband earned his degree in his 30s while we had two very young children and we were both working fulltime, and his degree directly earned him his current career which is an excellent fit for him and also pays well. My son is a 20-yr-old RHP who didn't really think college was right for him, but went anyway because he wanted to play college baseball. He is now halfway through his college baseball "career" and almost halfway to his degree. Let's say in a few years he was offered the following choice of careers:

$100,000/yr as a computer programmer or business manager,
$50,000/yr as a college baseball coach, or
$10,000/yr (or less) to play minor league baseball.

I know the order in which he would choose:
#1 = $10K play baseball
#2 = $50K coach baseball
#3 = $100K any non-baseball desk job

Does that make him noble for having a dream and not caring about money - or foolish? Does it make your son greedy if his choice of the jobs would be the reverse order - or wise?

It's a very personal choice, and what is right for one person is not right for another. I know that's been said before...

Right or wrong should not even enter the equation...it's stictly a personal decision based on an "individuals" desire, priorities and goals in life. Because an accountant may have had an opportunity to be a financial advisor or stock broker, does it make his decision to be an accountant wrong or bad... No, it's what HE wanted out of life and something HE was comfortable with.

I also believe kids coming out of H.S. are well aware of the slim odds of ever making it to the big show...since I can't imagine it's a kids desire to be a career minor leaguer, there is likely to be some doubt in the back of their minds about going pro which may also play into their decision making. Thus many will opt for the college education and experience which also allows them to play the game they love on an
even higher level and whatever happens beyond that is gravy in their eyes. JMHO

My son is still young (heading into his junior year) and has always had the goal of playing professionally. Not sure if it will happen for him but if a he is offered an opportunity to play pro and accepts the offer, and part of the offer includes college tuition, is it possible for a player to attend any college classes at all during the years he is playing minor league ball? I thought that I had heard somewhere that the possibility existed to complete a few credit hours each year.

THE EH, if the DNF player chooses to attend the D1, which by the way happens all the time, then that DNF player would no longer be a DNF player. The club that drafted him would loose his rights when he walked into that first D1 class. Now that DNF player who is no longer a DNF player would not be elgible for the draft until after his Junior year at that D1.

FloridaFan, most young players that sign a pro contract prefer to spend their off seasons working out and lifting. When the minor league season is over in the 1st week of September most guys come home for a few weeks then head to instructional league. It varies for each club and a few don't even have an instructional program anymore. But, with todays technology you can take courses on line or you can take courses at a institution of higher learning that operates on the quarter system. You could take a full course load in that winter quarter.

quote:

Originally posted by Vance34:
THE EH, if the DNF player chooses to attend the D1, which by the way happens all the time, then that DNF player would no longer be a DNF player. The club that drafted him would loose his rights when he walked into that first D1 class. Now that DNF player who is no longer a DNF player would not be elgible for the draft until after his Junior year at that D1.

I thought (at a D-1) it was after junior year - or 21 years old - whichever comes first.

???

Itsinthegame, thats correct. The rule is that any player is elgible if his birthday falls on a date before or within 45 days of the completion of that years draft.

Example: Draft is June 6 and 7. Said players birth date is July 10 of the same year. If that was his 21st birthday then he would be elgible for the draft that just happened the month before.

I think as long as he turns 21 before or within 45 days after the draft he can be drafted.

quote:

Originally posted by HowUbe:
I think as long as he turns 21 before or within 45 days after the draft he can be drafted.

Sorry, Vance has already stated the 45 days requirement.

I'd say the best bet is to go to college to develop skills more and then advance in pro.

If you don't have a college degree and you set out to play pro ball, what if a career-ending injury happens? what will be the source of income?

just my 2 cents

quote:

Originally posted by ahs_bb '09:
I'd say the best bet is to go to college to develop skills more and then advance in pro.

If you don't have a college degree and you set out to play pro ball, what if a career-ending injury happens? what will be the source of income?



just my 2 cents

What if you get a career ending injury early in college? Hopefully you can pay to finish your education.

The MLB scholarship allows you to chase your dream and have college paid for in case of the career ending inury. I know a lot of kids don't use it but that's on them.

I also feel that after a few years on the road, sleeping in hotels after high school might help you grow up and decide what you really want to do after baseball.

Just my opinion though

Vance, to revisit this topic, let me restate my prior question and see if you'll answer it this time.

Did Andrew Miller make a mistake when he did not sign out of high school?

His "slot money" might've been as much as $800,000 then.

After three years enjoying college, he just got a minimum of $3.5 million, a guaranteed Sept. callup, and opportunities to earn millions more.

Maybe he gambled a bit on not getting an arm injury over the past 3 years. But if he gambled, it sure looks to me like he won big.

Basically, over the past three years he got an education, a trip to Omaha, and an additional $2.7 mill plus incentives and perks. Name me one kid who signed out of high school who got that much out of his first three years in the minors.

Andrew Miller also played two years on the cape and received honors for that and BA's College Player of the Year.
He is certainly did well for himself going to college first.
His height, his velocity, projectibility and being left handed didn't hurt either.

Midlo, you have a very valid point. Again, I have not put either choice in a negative lite. I merely said " If its about the money, go to school" Obviously it was about the money to Miller. Thats why he went to school.

Now let me ask you this. If Miller would have signed, he may have already been in the big leagues. Sure he is getting a September call up. But will he pitch? He can also go right back to A ball next spring too.

I do not have an issue with going to school, I went to school first! Again, I merely said if your sole purpose is to sign for ALOT of money then you should go to school. I also said if your sole purpose is to try and become a big leaguer then sign the contract. Thats all I said. Don't read anymore into it than that.

quote:

Name me one kid who signed out of high school who got that much out of his first three years in the minors.

Midlo, The list is long! Wonder how much money Griffey Jr has in his bank account? and wonder what a college degree would do for him financially? and wonder if he would prefer a Major League World Series or a college world series? Wonder what Robin Yount would say?

Look the list are long for both. Again, I have no issue other than if your intentions are to attend school and thats the bottom line then don't wait till the draft to tell someone. Tell that important piece of information in January. Thats all I would like.

One thing I see is an alarming number of arm problems/injuries for these kids be it out of HS or College.

Verlander just had to sit and he had acknwledged arm problems coming out of college

Look at Prior and Wood !!!

Are we rushing these kids to the bigs?---are they ready for the work and innings involved before they get their bodies ready for it ?

I am with you on this one TR. That's why, especially for a pitcher, it is a personal decision, as is the decision as to where you will play in college and what type of training and conditioning program you will be on while in college. And I don't get the philosophy of two way players in college, that's a killer if you ask me. Many of these pitchers were throwing mid-high 90's in college, HS with curveballs and sliders.
The pitfalls of a college pitcher, if you are good, is a heavy workload. Verlander, I do beleive had a huge workload in college, as did many others. I see the workload of some college pitchers, well over 100 innings in a season and then onto summer ball, back to work in fall practice, it takes a toll after a while.
Same for HS pitchers with heavy and frequent workloads and the pitches they throw.

This (pro or college choice out of HS) is an issue that many kids face one time. There is not a wrong answer. Some of the answers may have to do with the value of an education, or perhaps signing for bonus money, the desire to play college baseball, etc. What one kid decides to do may not be right for the neighbor kid, but that doesn't mean it is wrong.

The realities of being a pitcher means that at some point there will be health issues with the arm, whether that be elbow or shoulder.

The Verlander situation is not related at all to injury or soreness.....Leyland said he had planned to do this, especially with the big lead in the standings. Verlander's quote following his last game, regarding his arm, was that it felt the "best it had in a long time." You can expect Leyland to do it again with Verlander, Robertson, Bonderman, and even Miner again at least once more before the playoffs begin.

Leyland is trying to make sure his pitchers remain healthy....similar to what my son's college coach has done.......he hasn't thrown more than 100 pitches in a college game yet in almost fifty appearances, including several starts.

http://www.pgcrosschecker.com/draft/dr_06_06_29_signingbonuses.aspx


Click the above URL site and tell me what you think board. I'll let you be the judge and will remain mutual and unbiased. My wife says it's a no-brainer peace, Shep

PS-I couldn't resist. Don't know about ya'll, but I could pay for several college educations in top ten round money for most draft and signs I see here on PG Cross-Checkers list.

So much for the theory I have heard here which says, "only the top few picks are getting any worthwhile bonus money". Looking at this years drafts and actual signs, that appears to be a huge monetary misconception.
Peace Shep

Shep,
Again, you keep bringing up the money issue with the bonus bucks. Very few get rich from signing bonus, we all know the big $$ come later on, when and if you do make it. And signing bonus' are WAY down from what tehy used to be, the result, more and more going to college first, because it is a lot about the signing bonus to them and their parents.

How about this scenerio, which could be a very USUAL one. A HS player drafted in the 14th round, gets 140K, his college education would have been paid mostly by a great scholarship, to top 10 school. I haven't heard or seen his name mentioned once in three years, if he had gone to college you would know who he is, he was a top ranked player in HS. Good choice?

Obviously for HIM it was, he wanted to go pro more than go to college (this was not a pitcher by the way but a hitter who could have gotten his at bats in college), but for others, may not be the right choice.

Don't continue to place a price tag on it. Go back and read Gratefuls first paragraph.

And why would you have to pay for a college education when there is the MLB scholarship program, a good selling point for going pro, right?

College vs. pro is about knowing what you really want to do, though for a HS player never away from home may be difficult. It's important to talk about it early and NOT string others along until your name is called. If you really want to go pro and work, SIGN. But if you also want to go pro and earn most of your degree, experience college life and the college baseball experience, it CAN be accomplished just by seeing how many players ARE drafted out of college.

Discussion is good, always. It's important for parents and player to know the issues on both sides of the coin toss. However, this Is NOT a MLB or minor league website, this is a site where most of our players WILL go to college first. FYI, we didn't even have a thread for pro players, but many of the parents who first came here many moons ago, have college players who have gone pro.

I look upon the scout the same as a college recruiter, they are BOTH salesman, one selling their school the other selling his team. Each tends to leave out lots of the particulars in the visit. If it wasn't so confusing, people wouldn't be here asking questions. I found MOST scouts to be more up front than some college recruiters, but only because we had done our homework asked questions and I did here on teh HSBBW. MANY players I know who turned down going pro was NOT because they really wanted to go to college, but because they didn't get offered what they felt they were worth. A FEW players I know turned down really BIG money because they really wanted to go to college first.
That's why we have the HSBBW, so some of us can give information (not all good, not all bad) for those that have questions. I as a PARENT with a son who had to make a tough decision will always tell someone, if asked, the good and the bad on both sides. For mine, the college experience is turning out to be a great one and he is happy. I am sure if he had gone pro out of HS he would be happy as well. Did we want him to go to college first, yes, he was a very good student, if things would have been different, a fair student who didn't do well with a lesser oportunity, most probably he would have been drafted in the 6th, 7th round and signed. So I am NOT entirely PRO college, just want to let parents know there is an upside and a downside to any decision their son will make.

JMO

TPM says

quote:

College vs. pro is about knowing what you really want to do, though for a HS player never away from home may be difficult. If you really want to go pro and work, SIGN. But if you really want to go pro and earn most of your degree, experience college life and the college baseball eperience, it CAN be accomplished just by seeing how many players ARE drafted out of college.

Shep says Why risk losing bonus money offered on table now due to injury or stock going down while living college life and having to fullfill rigorous academic responsibilities. Let's face it, a great many student athletes are there for many other reasons with all the fraternities and campus life all around them. Why receive a degree and go through grueling and competetive interviews against hundreds of others for a job with no guarantee of even getting it if you don't have to. There is no guarantee of financial security upon graduation. Why go through the pain and hardship of passing up a lifetime of wages for many when it's right there lined up on the table in front of you. Imagine this, a 17-18 yr old draftee with 10,000 one-hundred dollar bills lined up in front of him being offered by a professional MLB team when he has depended on mom and dad all his life. He has an opportunity to give back to his parents and have a self-supporting life of his own. Family of his own with a lifetime of wages to get started with. You can't beat that! Isn't this the AMERICAN DREAMwe have all come to know and strive to achieve?? Turning down a lifetime of wages(MLB Substantial Bonus) is like winning a lottery and not claiming the prize if you turn it down if you are not already wealthy.

Go back up to my earlier post and click URL again for top ten rounds as a reminder.

I can give you dozens of examples of student/athlete college grads I know who have been interviewing with no success in finding job. These are good quality people I'm speaking of here who didn't party in college but didn't get a chance to even play baseball professionally as a late-rounder or sign as a free agent. Why not get the financial security for your "life" while you can?? Just think about the following: wife, kids, house, bank account, job, help my mom get a dishwasher or maybe even buy her a house for all she has done...Don't deny yourself this ONCE IN A LIFETIME OPPORTUNITY if that chance comes, take it! You can finance that 4 or 5 years of being a lifetime college student with no promises later with the interest from your bonus . Shep's .02