Vance,
Trust me! I get it! Just because someone decides to go to college, doesn't mean he doesn't have the dream. My son has had the dream since he was a little guy, still does, college hasn't changed that one bit!
Honesty, if you ask him he would tell you know he would not have given up what he has for a million. You are right about one thing, it is NOT about the money.

Included in his goal of playing MLB was the dream of winning a conference championship, going to Omaha as a player and playing for USA or on the cape for summer. He also wanted to experience football weekends and homecoming, s****r games and basketball games, and probably a lot more I don't know about. Do admit, classes seem to get in the way sometimes, though he has managed to keep the GPA above 3.0! He has achieved most of that, pretty determined and serious about his game, so I wouldn't doubt he MIGHT make it someday. He took a risk, and according to you, risk takers are more successful.
Scouts came to do their job, asking questions, explaining about their system of advancement, etc. But in the end when they called before draft time to ask what he really wanted to do and he answered go to college, they all said, "wise choice". But again I say, that was the right choice for him.

Dreams are dreams and reality is reality. Reality is, he wants to do it all. Are you or I to tell him he CAN'T? He may or may not make it to the show someday but I can tell you that he is having one h e l l of a ride along the way!

Oldslugger,
My question or solution never spoke of money.
I'm talking TIME here.
Giving enough time to become the best player you can become.
That would be my concern with going pro out of HS. EH

EH,
Each year approx 1500 are drafted. Most don't sign. The draft serves two purposes. One to find the best available prospects for MLB, second to have players make up teams for those prospects, three, to add $$ to baseball from revenues from their ML affiliates.

Most teams don't want to give those that are not top prospects more time than they have to. They have a revolving door going. They need to have their prospects play against the best, for competition to get to the show. Every once in a while they draft what they feel may be an organizational player, and he turns out to be a sensation.
There are so many players to fill open positions and so many teams to fill them. The more players that come, means more go. It's a game of survival of the fittest with yes, the "investments" given more chances, more time.

There are no guarantees in life. Even in college, you might be asked to leave to make room for someone else who might have more potential than you. Life isn't fair and baseball is not fair.

IMO - When it comes to this subject - anyone who claims an absolute truth exists one way or the other is just "talking jive".

Every single kid is different - and every kid's situation is different.

There isnt anyone on this planet that can tell a kid what is right for him.

Some kids make the right decisions and some dont. Thats life.

But to claim that you must go to college - or that you must play pro ball out of high school - or any other absolute - belies a very simple mind. (Regardless of what type of sheepskin you have hanging on the wall - or dont have hanging on the wall.)

IMO.

TPM

quote:

Every once in a while they draft what they feel may be an organizational player, and he turns out to be a sensation.

That's the one's I'm talking about, Given enough time to Develop into a very good MLB player. EH

quote:

The draft serves two purposes. One to find the best available prospects for MLB, second to have players make up teams for those prospects, three, to add $$ to baseball from revenues from their ML affiliates.

Isn't that 3 purposes?

Your right on number 1
and
Your somewhat right on numer 2
Pro teams do not draft HS players to fill rosters. They do that with college players and independent league players only.

and your way off the deep end on number 3
MLB teams do not make money on their minor league teams. Each Minor league team supports its self. Actually MLB teams loose money on minor league teams.

quote:

There are so many players to fill open positions and so many teams to fill them. The more players that come, means more go. It's a game of survival of the fittest with yes, the "investments" given more chances, more time.

Isn't that the way ALL jobs are. Unless your a stay home mom, and even those get replaced sometimes too.

IF you wanta go to college go. I have said that all along. If its about becoming a major league player then sign your contract.

Go down each major league roster. MOST players and MOST of the high dollar players NEVER attended one day of college class.

There isn't one ML team that would draft a HS kid and not give him 5 years. Pro teams draft HS players to help them make it to the big leagues. Bottom line.

quote:

Originally posted by Vance34:

Go down each major league roster. MOST players and MOST of the high dollar players NEVER attended one day of college class.

How do you define most?

I actually did that exercise a few weeks ago.
Every single team - just because I had some time to waste. I even posted about 5 or 6 teams worth here.

Its about 50-50 - with a high number of players having attended JUCO's and community colleges.

And if you take the Latin American players out of the equation - the ratio is about 60-40.

I guess it comes down to how you define "Most". LOL

EH,
I saw this on another post, might explain why players are let go.

http://baseball.about.com/od/lesserknownrules/a/transactionrule.htm

Vance, Sorry, I meant 3, please forgive me. You mean to say baseball MAKES NO money off of ML? You said they lose money? So if they make no money off of them how can they lose money?

I never said that more college or HS players were drafted to fill rosters. Hmm, that's odd, you mean that 16 college players of the first round, 18 college players of the second round were drafted to fill rosters? Holy moly, what an incredible waste of money!

And if they have no intentions of having them make it to MLB, why did they spend money on MOST of them in the first place, oh I forgot, to fill roster spots! Gee, and I thought they were considered prospects.

You certainly do make the whole thing confusing!

BTW, Midlo dad sked you a question, last page, you didn't answer.

quote:

You mean to say baseball MAKES NO money off of ML? You said they lose money? So if they make no money off of them how can they lose money

Major League teams make no money from the minor league teams. That would be correct! Each minor league team is self supporting. The major league teams actually pay for a minor league agreement with a city. They team also supplies all the equipment and all the player and coaches salaries. They recieve no revenue for having a team in a city.

quote:

you mean that 16 college players of the first round, 18 college players of the second round were drafted to fill rosters? Holy moly, what an incredible waste of money!

Not what I said. What I said was that pro teams don't draft HS players to fill rosters. They draft college and Independent players. I DID NOT say they draft 1st round players or 2nd round players to fill rosters. BUT, the Royals have come close.

quote:

And if they have no intentions of having them make it to MLB, why did they spend money on MOST of them in the first place, oh I forgot, to fill roster spots! Gee, and I thought they were considered prospects

They have all intentions of helping them make it to the ML's. Guys taken that early in the draft would not be roster fillers. I NEVER SAID THAT!

quote:

I actually did that exercise a few weeks ago.
Every single team - just because I had some time to waste. I even posted about 5 or 6 teams worth here.

Its about 50-50 - with a high number of players having attended JUCO's and community colleges.

And if you take the Latin American players out of the equation - the ratio is about 60-40.

I guess it comes down to how you define "Most". LOL

And WE (as Americans) wonder why American baseball players are getting fewer and fewer in the big leagues! HAMMER on the HEAD of the NAIL!

quote:

Originally posted by Vance34:

quote:

You mean to say baseball MAKES NO money off of ML? You said they lose money? So if they make no money off of them how can they lose money

Major League teams make no money from the minor league teams. That would be correct! Each minor league team is self supporting. The major league teams actually pay for a minor league agreement with a city. They team also supplies all the equipment and all the player and coaches salaries. They recieve no revenue for having a team in a city.

quote:

you mean that 16 college players of the first round, 18 college players of the second round were drafted to fill rosters? Holy moly, what an incredible waste of money!

Not what I said. What I said was that pro teams don't draft HS players to fill rosters. They draft college and Independent players. I DID NOT say they draft 1st round players or 2nd round players to fill rosters. BUT, the Royals have come close.

quote:

And if they have no intentions of having them make it to MLB, why did they spend money on MOST of them in the first place, oh I forgot, to fill roster spots! Gee, and I thought they were considered prospects

They have all intentions of helping them make it to the ML's. Guys taken that early in the draft would not be roster fillers. I NEVER SAID THAT!

But, but Vance,
You said if you want to go to college go, if you want to be a major league player sign a contract.
So if you sign a contract out of HS that means you will be a major league player and if you go to college you won't, that's what you implied right?
And you also said they draft college players to fill rosters, but then you said they will help the many top college drafted prospects to go to MLB, right? Why wouldn't they?
So fill me in, if you go to college you will not be a MLB, but if you are one of he 30 plus they are paying some big money for this year you might get lucky or you might not.
Isn't that the way it is for everyone Vance?

Are you a scout, with a master's? Did you play MLB, no you couldn't have because most MLB players don't ever attend. I just want to understand where you are coming from.

A former player from where my son goes is a MLB pitcher, so is a short stop from the Padres. As a matter of fact there have been MANY that played MLB (not all at one time)lol. Does that fall under MOST or SOME?

Gee, if someone here followed your great advice, they might even be more confused.

After signing for $500,000 out of Venezuela last year, Yankees outfielder Jose Tabata made a quick impression in the Rookie-level Gulf Coast League by hitting .314/.382/.417 and swiping 22 bags.

The 17-year-old has built on that this season at low Class A Charleston, where he was hitting .321/.395/.454 through 293 at-bats and was named to both the South Atlantic League all-star game and the Futures Game.

Tabata has plus tools across the board, starting with an advanced approach at the plate. Tabata uses the whole field effectively, and already has gap power to left-center field. He has plus-plus bat speed and many scouts are projecting plus power to develop in time, though Tabata had just five homers in the Sally League this season.

We caught up with an American League scout in Pittsburgh at this year's Futures Game to give an assessment of what he saw out of arguably the Yankees' most exciting prospect.

"He's a very, very interesting player," the scout said. "He's a plus runner (4.15 seconds to first base) with the ability to hit for a high average. He's got average to above-average arm strength and depending on how he fills out, certainly has the potential to hit for tremendous power. His bat speed and bat-to-ball ability is just that good.

"His swing is very quiet--no wasted movement. He's got very quick hands and strong wrists and seems to have good balance in his approach. The hand-eye is remarkable, and where a lot of guys would be so dialed into that ability to hit for power--and we see so many young players fall in love with that ability, they try to do that every AB--he shows a mature approach, just takes what he's given and launches balls the other way into the gap.

"The age is the thing that makes him so intriguing. You see all these tools now--and they all play--and that's what intrigues you. Is he going to stay at 5-foot-11, 180 (pounds) and be a gap-to-gap guy who can hit balls to all fields with no problem? Or does he grow into that body, become like 6-foot-2, 200 (pounds) and really start to unlock some more of that huge power potential? Everything's in place if he does--the tools are all above-average to plus. And if that happens, we're talking about a monster."

quote:

You said if you want to go to college go, if you want to be a major league player sign a contract.
So if you sign a contract out of HS that means you will be a major league player and if you go to college you won't, that's what you implied right?

I didn't imply anything. You did. Again, what I said is if its about the money then go to school. If its about trying to become a major league player then sign the contract!

quote:

So fill me in, if you go to college you will not be a MLB,

Whew, I said this? NO I DID NOT! I said go to college if its about the money!

Let me ask you something TPM, lets say every player in the draft gets the same bonus. Would your son have been fighting to get on that **** bus to go play! Your **** right he would have!

A serious injury kept me from playing further. And yes I have a masters degree! Do you?

quote:

A former player from where my son goes is a MLB pitcher, so is a short stop from the Padres

And the guy playing in the middle with that Padre SS is a HIGH SCHOOL 4th RD pick that signed for less than 500,000 dollars OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL!


GEE, TPM read what is said and not what you think is said! Then maybe you would understand. Who is your son? Didn't he have Tommy John Surgery? I think I'll call Leggett and get the inside on him.

Obviously, I'm talking about prospects out of High School.

Vance,
My last response to you. In this thread as in others, you seem to imply that we are all jerks, you know who I am, I don't know who you are. So coming on here spewing advice ( some of what you say makes sense, other times you talk in circles) but if someone DOES NOT agree with your thinking, you get pretty testy. I am tired of you thinking we are idiots, not just here but where ever you post.

You don't like when someone misinterprets what you say, you have done the same thing here.
This topic is about choices, I am trying to explain that there are choices. Choice is based on circumstances for each individual, sometimes money is involved in the choice, sometimes not. The impression you give is that your chances of making it to MLB is less if you went to college. In the end, you and I know, that who makes it makes it most likely whether they went to college or straight out of HS.

Son DID not have TJS, and you can call Jack, I think that he too will tell you that college for many is a good choice, considering he has had almost 100 players drafted in his term at Clemson. Did all of them become MLB players, no, but many of them got chances, the same chances one has coming out of HS.

And btw, my education has NOTHING to do with this topic. Besides, I have until 90 to go back to school (according to you), and at 55, I haven't decided what to do yet.

Understand, you do NOT have to be in the business of baseball to understand the realities of college recruiting and the MLB draft.

And if you are a professional and in the business, business must be pretty slow, because I CAN'T imagine why an educated ex professional with a MASTER's degree is posting all day long on a High school baseball web!

quote:

my education has NOTHING to do with this topic

Then WHY did mine?

If you'll look at what I said. It is all about choices. My comment again was "If its about the MONEY go to school. If its about trying to play in the big leagues then sign the contract."

To many American players (and Good ones to) make pro baseball the last resort and not the priority.

We deal with it every year. High school kids/ parents saying "if you'll give me a Million or 2 million or even 3 or 4 million then I'll sign a contract. Its about the money and that Camp should go to school. We hear them say "yes I wanta be a big leaguer BUT I wanta go have fun in college first because my chances aren't good for making it to the big leagues. But, I'll be ready in 3 years. Then if not then after their Senior years. Then next thing you know they are calling every scout and begging for a chance at pro ball.

Its the parents/ kid that say my priority is becoming a big league player. Draft me where I should be drafted and pay me whats fair for where I am picked and I'm ready to go. "Where's the bus".

Pro baseball wants players who WANT it worse than anything else in life. I, nor any scout, have an issue with kids going to college.

Which brings to mind a Clemson player who may have a different perspective if you asked him today. Patrick Boyd.

I don't know about you, but walking away from alot of money and college money to is hard to realize.

quote:

And if you are a professional and in the business, business must be pretty slow, because I CAN'T imagine why an educated ex professional with a MASTER's degree is posting all day long on a High school baseball web!

Well, if you KNEW the business as you say you do then you would have realized that I'm doing professional coverage out of my home state and see one game(a minor league game)a night. Then I spend all day each day writing reports on those players that I see. I take breaks to contribute here. TPM, don't make an issue with me then demand that the same issue not be made with you!

VANCE


What does a kid from another country have to do with this discussion --we are talking USA kids coming out of HS and making a decision--sign or not when drafted !!!

By the way you are getting the "Doggie Syndrome" of not being able to answer questions when asked--- answer TPM--be a man about it even if she might be smarter than you !!!

TR HIT. There is no hope for you in understanding the point of view. I said I agree with you. Here I'll say it again. I agree with you.

Go to college. The issue is that foreign players have a priority of playing in the big leagues. American players(for the most part) only have it as a LAST RESORT. Its all good. My issue is with the parents and player for not saying in January. "Hey scouts, I'm going to college unless (as you would say) you give me 5 million dollars. That way we scouts don't have to waste time on them all spring!

So be honest in January and not after all the work has been done for NOT!

Again, go to school. I'll scout you in college and so will everyone else.

Oh my I have to agree with Vance, we have had discussions about being HONEST from early on. Make your choices for the RIGHT reasons, not wait until you see your bonus.

And since you brought it up, latin players from other countries do make up a large portion of the baseball pro community. You don't need a MASTER'S degree to figure that out, some have no choice.
And while we are at it, less college players in MLB because they had a CHOICE later on, do I hang around or continue for more years. Many have degrees, most almost all their degrees and something to fall back on. They have less staying power. A player after HS who has already given many years, doesn't have too many other options and you know as well as I many don't take advantage of the scholarship program.
I don't get into discussing players regardless, and it shouldn't be done by a professional on this site. This site is not for scouts to give reports on players, on what they should or shouldn't have done. I think some need to take lessons from those that are in the business who come here as professionals and conduct themselves as such as are not afraid to let us know who they are. You need to take some scout etiquette lessons from Doug (bbscout). He gives good advice,some don't always agree with him, I have never heard him mention one player or been negative towards a player's options. He has said the same as you, you want to play pro ball sign, you want to go to college go to college, period. But in a much kinder and gentler parent friendly way.JMO.
You as a scout have every right to state how you feel about the draft, but should be in a helpful way, for parents to be able to help their sons decide which is best for them.
You as a scout feel that only ones who will sign for anything are what you are looking for, I would ASSUME we all understand that. But in no means let anyone feel that if their choice is of anothr option, it's wrong.
As a professional you should know better than that on all of the above.
Now back to work!