My son attended his first showcase a few weekends ago. He is 2010 that got a 7.5 rating. Does this rating reflect where they are now, or is there some projection built into it?

I think... it is a projection of where he will be. I've seen multi-event ratings that go up and down but are usually within a point. All that said, I've rairly seen less than a 7.

Is it safe to say that the write up is more important than the numerical rating?

Obrady is correct - PG never tries to hurt kids with a low rating. At the same time, their reputation is on the line. It is part reality, and part projection. Usually the description suggests the direction he should be going - especially with an 010 like your son.

CNY - the writeup and rating are both important, but vary depending on your goal. If your son is a rising Senior, the rating is ultra important. If your son is a frosh/soph it is just a step on his journey to get better.

There is a thread on this board in which PG explains the rating system further.

5.5 ratings is the lowest I have seen.

A little foot note, one player with 5.5 rating went on to lead East cobb area in hitting and home runs and signed with top rated Divison II colleges and has hit well in college.

Ratings are one persons opinion. Other may think much differently.

MLSB Rating(20-80) 50 MLB average
Bobby Whitt : MLSB Rating 80 (PERFECT SCORE)
Wade Boggs: MLSB Rating 25 Hall of Fame player

I'm pretty sure PG will post once he sees the question. You can then get an answer directly from the source! Or perhaps pm him!

Frank,

The man asked about his son's rating. A 7.5 aint bad.

He didnt ask about Wade Boggs and Bobby Whitt. They have nothing to do with the question or PG's ratings.

bcb2,

PG's ratings are pretty darn good IMO. No one I know does it better.

And no - They are not perfect - they make mistakes. Some too high and some too low.

But here is the most important thing - if you keep hitting the **** out of the ball - catching them all - striking them out - and running like a wild dog - eventually your rating will go up. LOL

Somewhere - that rating will rise.

And if you dont like the rating - tell your son to work harder - and bury the rating. Tell him to bury it - deep. With results.

Good luck and tell your son to keep working hard.

sorry but according to their rating system 7.5 rating is a Division 1 prospect and potential draft pick. One RHP (2008) was rated 7.5 rating and top out at 78 mph.

Another player rated a 10,a few years ago.
The dad totally convinced he was a top 5 rounder because of the 10 rating. Drafted in high 20 round, signs for around $ 30,000. Plays one year in the Gulf Coast League, hits .191 and gets released. Now a 90 day release player, at DIV 2 college. Batting average in 2007 .000, has yet to bat yet in college.

Yeah, I noticed one player that was named to the top prospect team got a 7.5. Another kid that didnt make top prospect team was rated 9. This was for the National Underclass Showcase. Makes you wonder.

quote:

By mattm.... Yeah, I noticed one player that was named to the top prospect team got a 7.5. Another kid that didnt make top prospect team was rated 9. This was for the National Underclass Showcase. Makes you wonder.

Mattm,

You can quit wondering!

I hate it when people bring up examples of something that just doesn’t exist! What is the purpose behind that?

Actually there were several 7.5s that were named to the top prospect teams. But every single player graded a 9 made it also.

I forgive you, though you can imagine how your post makes me wonder.

Let me help fill in some of the blanks. I'm fairly certain that most every college recruiter and pro scout understands the following.

7 – “POTENTIAL” low round pick (At some point, not necessarily right now) or DI Prospect or top level juco or DII
8 – “POTENTIAL” mid round pick (At some point, not necessarily right now) or definite DI PROSPECT

A player graded a 10… Andy you will have to give me more than just an example of ?????? somebody. I don’t think we have EVER missed on a 10. And in your example (if it’s real) we might have thought that player was a top level DI prospect. If he was selected in the 20th round there is a very good chance he in fact was! The only reason he is where he is (if true) is because DI does not allow players who have been in professional baseball.

10 – POTENTIAL very high draft pick OR Top DI in the nation prospect.
Note: Sometimes a player can be a top DI prospect without being a high draft prospect. Top DI schools are full of those types!

Anyway, I think we are going to change our grading system to define things a lot clearer.

And yes, our opinions are wrong at times. If we weren’t we would replace a lot of important jobs people have in baseball.

I really can’t debate someone bringing up situations without any real examples. Anyone can say anything they want I guess and just claim that it happened.

We grade heavily on potential. Some players reach that potential some player don’t! In the end the college or professional team will place a value on a player that may or may not agree with what we think. So far it’s turned out amazingly accurate in most cases, but a long ways from 100%! Then again the MLB Clubs and colleges are not near 100% accurate either! It’s not a very exact thing!

We all have opinions, and when it comes to baseball ours are highly regarded. Otherwise we wouldn’t have much of an impact.

Sorry, but I have to answer to these things way too often. It seems to pop up several times each year here. Then there are the hundreds of emails and phone calls with parents complaining their son’s are getting slighted by our honest opinion. We actually do take all those very serious and we know exactly who and what they are referring to.

If anyone else cares to pile on, I ask two things…
1. Be honest
2. Don’t have an agenda without identifying yourself

This is very interesting. Mattm, I just figured out who you are. (I’m slow) Checked your video and numbers from the Underclass event and I have no idea why we didn’t grade you higher. But after looking at your video and realizing which class you’re in, I have no idea why you weren’t graded higher than a 7.5.

I am going to look into it personally, check every note, watch all the video, etc. from the underclass showcase. I actually think you are a very easy 8 and maybe even higher based on what I just looked at. If it's warrented as I expect, we will be raising your grade on Monday. This looks like a case where we did make a mistake based on our own standards. Yes, we do make mistakes! And yes, once we realize that, we try to correct it.

I’m not trying to embarrass you, but you have some very interesting tools and being an 09 you have a couple years left to improve any weakness you might have.

An 09 who runs your 60 time, shows good fielding actions with some arm strength and swings the bat like you do, deserves a higher grade from us.

I still don’t understand your comment in the previous post, though. You should have been “wondering” about your own grade, not anyone elses.

quote:

Originally posted by Frank Martin:
sorry but according to their rating system 7.5 rating is a Division 1 prospect and potential draft pick. One RHP (2008) was rated 7.5 rating and top out at 78 mph.

Another player rated a 10,a few years ago.
The dad totally convinced he was a top 5 rounder because of the 10 rating. Drafted in high 20 round, signs for around $ 30,000. Plays one year in the Gulf Coast League, hits .191 and gets released. Now a 90 day release player, at DIV 2 college. Batting average in 2007 .000, has yet to bat yet in college.

Frank,

They rank thousands of kids every year. And they do it more accurately than any organization in the country.

That isnt an opinion. That is a fact.

Picking out individual examples that are a pleasant surprise - or a dud - is statistically meaningless. Its like spewing out an air bubble.

We are here to tell the truth and to help others through the process. That is the right thing to do.
We are not here to cast misleading aspersions about the best national baseball organization in the country.

Let me tell you this from first hand experience. My eldest son went to a PG event in Florida when he was a sophomore. A northerner venturing on down south. He was ranked about as low as you could be ranked. It was eye opening IMO.

I could have easily come on here over the years - and said that PG's rankings were not accurate - because my son was ranked so poorly. But it would be nothing more than a misleading air bubble.

The reality is they are usually VERY accurate. In fact - overwhelming so if you look closely. No one else even comes close.

And the good thing about a lower ranking - especially for a motivated individual - is perhaps the message that you have to work real hard to get better.

I remember when my son saw his ranking.
His exact words to me were "Dad - they think I suck. But I dont suck. I am going to smash that ******* 6 into little pieces".
And he was dead serious.
That 6 burned in his mind for a long time - and I think it still does at times. The 6 turned out to be jet fuel for him.

The message: - You can find the good in the the rankings - or you can dwell on the bad.
You can kill the messenger - or you can take the message and use it as motivation. Your choice. I prefer the latter.

I think PG puts alot of very skilled effort into the rankings and they should be viewed as a useful guide to what you have and what you need to do to get better.

So please - stop the misleading air bubble stuff.

A more interesting post about PG rating system would be what % of
10
9
8
7
6
5
ratings
go on to play college baseball or pro ball and then you know exactly how accurate their ratings are.

Frank,

I believe that if PG did put those numbers up - two things would definitely occur. And both are very "interesting" IMO.

1) Readers would be impressed at how accurate PG rankings have been over the years. Especially from 8 and up.

2) You would post yet another misleading negative air bubble.

I am absolutely certain of both.

Frank, a few weeks back, I posted a comment about Team One being greedy because the only way to read about their events was by subscription. My guess is that you had something to do with it being deleted, because even though you post about a lot of events, you have been quick to defend BF/T1/Puma.

So, naturally, you'd take cheap swipes at PG because you can.

In any event, I'll give my take on PG, because sometimes things don't show up in ratings or where kids end up.

Wayback, Jr came from a small New England town not known for baseball. But, he did get out of town along the way and played some AAU. His first year, he had two options, and choose the one a little over an hour away. He met a teammate (gold-gloves3 who also posts here) who later attended a PG event. Very few in our state had heard of PG at the time. But, we checked it out.

He rated a 7.5, as the youngest player at the event. We were a bit disappointed, and we thought maybe he was being graded based on performance compared to 16-17 year-olds (he was 14). We learned alot along the way about how scouts percieve things and worked to improve on those things needing work.

Something about that grade sparked a determination, that to this day, rages inside of him. He later attended more PG events, as well as BF/T1 (3 time Pre-season All American invitee) and College Select. But, the PG/WWBA events (18 to date)were more appealing and became a way of life during off-season periods. We prodded his 15 & 16 year old teams to attend WWBA events. Last year he played for Team Connecticut, who he met through PG events.

But, college recruiting did not go as planned. The all important Junior year and summer was a throw away, because of a virus. His passion was so strong that, after three weeks off, he played with the virus, and against doctor's recommendation. His on field performance fell dramatically, as did his ranking. But, it was no longer about his ranking. His need to play was so strong. He lost 20 pounds. He often fell asleep between innings due to lack of energy. His velocity dropped 5-6 mph. His 60 time dropped 1/3 of a second. And, he mentioned the bat often felt too heavy to swing. But, he'd rather play at 60% than not play at all. Although he missed opportunities because of the diminished performance, he did sign early with a mid-level D1 team. Oddly enough, I think the school is a great fit for a small town kid (5000 enrollment).

My wife and I discussed this the other day. The path he took which led him to the PG event, and how that changed the direction of his life. It affected all aspects of our life, the teams he would go on to play with, his drive to train, our vacations, our closing our business on game day afternoons, etc.

So, the PG event sparked the drive for a kid to dedicate himself to working at his game, when all the kids of his youth had gone on to other things in thier life. Not to mention, it helped him play for travel teams that have become a lifetime of memories for all of our family.

None of that can't be measured in rankings or grades.

I'm willing to venture, there are 1000's of similar stories out there.

quote:

The message: - You can find the good in the the rankings - or you can dwell on the bad.
You can kill the messenger - or you can take the message and use it as motivation. Your choice. I prefer the latter.

EXCELLENT POST!!!

Added note:
IMHO, whining never leads to winning, doing does.

I really do appreciate it when people take the time to tell their stories. It doesn’t matter if those stories are pro PG or not so long as they’re true. I’m very happy with the truth, be it good or bad. We are not always right and we are not anything special, but we do try to be as accurate as possible without any politics involved.

We have had close friends become very upset over the grade or ranking we gave their son. We have had wealthy dads get upset about our grade on their son. We have irritated former Major League players, scouts, college coaches and many others who thought our grade on their son was too low. And yes, we have graded some kids too high as it turned out. It’s not easy, but it is easy to live with it if everything is don e honestly.

Yes, we try to give young players the benefit of the doubt in most every case. I would guess as a whole (under the current system) too much value is placed on projection. Then again. I can’t tell you how many times we’ve seen kids exceed what we’ve projected.

If a player is a 7.5 as a freshman, we are projecting him to be a 7.5 as a senior. In other words, if the 7.5 as a freshman is 7.5 as a senior, we feel we were correct when he was a freshman. Often people don’t understand…. They see their son has improved in the 60, improved his arm strength, shown more power…. Yet he has the same grade. Well, that is what projection is! If we see a 7.5 as a freshman, we would expect him to improve. We have given 6s to sophomores who later become 8s or 9s, even 10s. In those cases we were wrong earlier, the player exceeded our projection. It happens a lot because we can’t always tell how much drive or physical development a player has. We have been pleasantly surprised hundreds of times.

I do wish people would listen to what “itsinthegame” and “wayback” have to say. The kids I like the most are those who go out and prove our grade was too low. Too bad there are not more young people like Zach Duke out there. I don’t remember what we graded or ranked Zach when he was in high school, but I do know we blew it and underestimated him. He proved that we didn’t know what we were talking about and I love it when that happens.

Whether it is our grade, the scouting bureau grade or any other grade… listen to what some of these people are saying. Don’t set around and complain or quit… Go out and show everyone just how wrong they were. You can’t do much about what happened in the past, but you are in complete control of your own future. The people who will be somehow grading you, never really stops… So you can set around and cry or you can go out and do something about it!

Frank… I have no idea what the results would be. There are 280 some DI colleges that play baseball. If they averaged 7 recruits a year, that is around 2,000 DI players each year. I believe we have players who we have graded at every DI college. At the top colleges we have graded their entire recruiting class in most cases. For example… Over the past couple years in Omaha (NCAA DI World Series) the 8 teams have had on there roster an average of over 150 both years of players we have graded. Over the past 5 years over “3,000” players we graded were drafted by MLB Organizations, 952 of them in last year’s draft. This year we expect to have over 200 players who participated in our events on Major League rosters. It’s not like we haven’t seen a few good players along the way, so we don’t know what we’re doing when we grade players. And we still make mistakes on players! And we always will. I hope you don't have some kind of agenda!

quote:

I’m very happy with the truth, be it good or bad. We are not always right and we are not anything special, but we do try to be as accurate as possible without any politics involved.

My son has never been to a PG event.
Not sure he will ever make it to one.

But when considering what, if any, showcases we might attend,...the above quote by PG holds credible weight with us.

I just cant find reason to argue with intentional fairness.
My son has to do his part,..and then let the chips fall where they may.

I always hate to see people go to a showcase and make the following comments.

I saw " " and he aint that good.
He is so over rated.
I really thought he was going to be better than that.
My son was just as good as " " and he got rated a 9 and my son got rated a 8.
My son got 3 hits and he only got two but he made the top prospects game.

I could go on and on. Go for your sons experience and stop looking at other people and comparing in those ways. PG does this for a living. They have seen thousands of kids for years. There is no conspiracy theory here folks. They evaluate talent and then they project that talent , based on years of experience. If your son gets a ranking that he feels is low use it as motivation to work even harder. If he gets a high ranking use it as motivation to work even harder to improve it and prove it was correct. Its funny to me that the college coaches that recruit, the vast majority of the time are right in line with PG's opinion on players ability. Please be honest with yourself and your son. And if you can not handle being evaluated dont go.

First of all, I want to apoligize to PG for posting something that was not true. I was looking at those profiles late at night and there are quite a lot of them. I really thought that I saw a 9 that didn't make the Top Prospect Team. One of the problems that we young people have is talking or acting in a rush. I should have looked at the profiles again before i posted here to verify the accuracy of what i was posting. Opening my big mouth without thinking has gotten me in trouble before. This can be verified by my parents.

Second, I am so thankful that my parents spent the time, and money to send my to the National Underclass Showcase it was a great event. I had a blast. Things were ran very smoothly for an event that had so many in attendance. It was fun to play and compete against such great ballplayers from all over the country. I made several friends also.

I was not concerned that I got a 7.5 as I know that it is just a number and that i have so many things to improve on. I just looked at it as a starting point. Since this was my first perfect game expeirence. I planned to work hard on my shortcomings and to improve so that i could possibly increase my rating as I attended future events. That is right future events. Because i realized what a beneift it was to me and my desire to be the best player that i could to me measured and tested against the best. I have received some attention since attending the showcase that is a direct result of my haveing been there. It was money well spent. My father was impressed with the event and believe me that is not always the easiest thing to do.

I also want to thank everyone that has given me feedback on my video. I have taken you advice and tips and used them to try to get better. I also want to think everyone who posts here. The information has really helped me to learn alot about this whole process.

Once again PG I apoligize. I hope you forgive me for my youth. I hope that while i continue to get better at baseball i continue to grow as an adult also. I am sorry.