quote:

Originally posted by Catching Coach:

quote:

Originally posted by zombywoof:
Parents need to stay away from the on-the-field playing time decisions. It's not their business.

So you are saying that High School coaches decisions about who gets to participate in a school sanctioned activity are totally without any accountability to the parents of the school district?

And by accountability I just mean that you feel coaches should not have to be under any obligation to explain their decisions to the parents?

The coach should only have to explain his position and playing time decisions to players. The parents can ask the players.

quote:

Originally posted by Catching Coach:

quote:

Originally posted by zombywoof:
Parents need to stay away from the on-the-field playing time decisions. It's not their business.

So you are saying that High School coaches decisions about who gets to participate in a school sanctioned activity are totally without any accountability to the parents of the school district?

And by accountability I just mean that you feel coaches should not have to be under any obligation to explain their decisions to the parents?

Catching Coach, I was thinking that I'd be in your area and so, I thought I'd stop by and tell you how to run your business. Ok so I won't but what you suggest is exactly that. Coaches are accountable. If the school board,and/or administration doesn't like what they are doing, they will be fired. As my AD once said to me, "There are high expectations." I wouldn't have it any other way. However, get out of my way and let me coach. I'm not going to write out a lineup and run it to a parent such as yourself for approval. Regarding, "explaing their moves to parents," how far does that go. Well John and Sue, we certainly should have used your opinion on that squeeze play. I apologize for doing what I wanted to instead. Tell George and Jean that I liked the idea of the hit and run.

Again, parents are entitled to talk about their kid and what that child needs to do to improve their chances of playing, or making it to the next level or... They should be aware of whatever format that discussion is to take place. I always requested that the AD and the child be present. I have my reasons for that. Mostly, if I'm going to talk about one of my players, I won't do it behind their back. I want the AD in there because most people really don't want honesty and have a hard time dealing with it. You again suggested that the classroom and the sports area are the same. They are not. Finally, anyone that talks to a coach must know that there are consequences for every action. It'd be the same in the business world. If you go complain, be aware that the boss might not appreciate it and so, be careful how you approach it. Of course this is where you come with "I'm the taxpayer and so, I'm the boss." If so, no kid gets cut. Every kid plays equal minutes and we have the degrading of America continue.

Catching Coach-
I am not sure if you are bored, or what, but you are beginning to sound like a Troll.


-Quote by Catching Coach:
"So you are saying that High School coaches decisions about who gets to participate in a school sanctioned activity are totally without any accountability to the parents of the school district?

And by accountability I just mean that you feel coaches should not have to be under any obligation to explain their decisions to the parents? "

To the first part:

Yes coaches are accountable to the parents to provide a safe, tobacco free, enviornment to learn and develop a sport. They are usually also accountable to the school by way of the AD for all of their plans and actions for the season of their sport. They are also accountable to the school district and the section usually by way of some kind of Code of Ethics and to complete training that as required by the section.

To the second part:
It has been explained to you in many different ways, NO they are not under any obligation to explain their decisions to the parents. However, most coaches will take the time to explain their decisions with regard to your student athlete when asked with in the guildelines set for by the Athletic Director.

What part don't you understand?

I would certainly like to know where you came up with this notion of coaches explaining their every move to the parents.

There are many side issues to this subject. Are there coaches out of control? Yes. Are there parents out of control? Yes.
Some coaches are arrogant (but they are still accountable to the aforementioned).
Some parents are pure evil and have commited crimes against other parents and coaches in the name of their children.

In your work place are you prepared to receive phone calls or meetings with every member of your staff to evaluate each an every member of your staff on a daily or even weekly basis? If so, you must have a lot of spare time.

I surely don't agree with all of the coaching decisions, even when it does not involve my own student athlete. But,usually they teach a full day, get out to practice until dusk, try to catch dinner with the family, spend time with their kids, do whatever they need to do for class, and put time into planning how to get the team better, get some shut eye, and start over again.
So, given that timeline, do you really expect them to field 20 phone calls to "explain their decisons" to each and every parent? Come on, this is totally unrealistic, which is why I am thinking you may be Trolling us.

I'm probably in the minority, in that I spoke with my son's coach a few times about issues concerning my son.

They were good conversations, not combative.

Freshman year. First two games of the year, he caught 7 innings and the next day pitched 7 innings. I did not think it was a good idea. Coach aggreed and my son never caught another game in HS.

Soph. year. On the last day son was eligible to be sent down to JV, I asked the coach if it might not be a good idea to get him some mound time. He agreed. Son went down to JV for about 10 games and flourished. He was brought back up to varsity, pitched in the league championship clincher, and started in the section playoffs.

Junior year, nothing to talk about. Son was #4 or 5 hitter all year.

Sr. year. Midway through season, son had not performed as well as everyone expected. Not bad, but no real improvement over his very good Jr. year. Coach was kind of using my son as his whipping boy. Others had seen it and commented on it. Son wanted to quit baseball. I had a good conversation with his coach and he agreed that he had been overly harsh with my son and would try to tone it down. No more problems the rest of the year.

This coach was fairly young and actually a pretty decent coach. He never seemed to take our conversations in a negative way, nor did I.

Son is now playing D1 and I promise never to talk to his college coach about anything related to playing baseball.

Dooer-
Yours is a fine example of why this subject is complicated. You were able communicate with your son's coach in an ammicable way.

However, you were not asking for more or why....you were asking for less in both instances.
Less work, less whipping boy. Clearly you could express yourself in a way that the coach was able to hear you and arrive at a decision agreeable to both of you in each instance.

My experience is limited, but we have never felt the need to approach the coach.

Our program is very new, and we only have one coach per team - during the school year there wasn't even an assistant! I did hear complaints that the coach wasn't helping with individual coaching issues. How can they!? When our son needed a few brush ups, we found a great coach and paid him to help. It was a good solution for us.

I think many see coaches as minor gods - but you know, they're just people too. By the time a minor issue gets addressed, it is all blown up and things get crazy.

there is a fine line here. Many years ago we would not even be discussing this. Parents watched coaches coached end of story. In my years of coaching High school I ran my team with what I thought was right for the team. I am sure I did things that did not sit well with parents but the bottom line was always the success of the team. Moving kids around where they could best make the team a success. I really had no problem. I have been away from the high school scene for 10 years. On this site I read certain situations. I also still communicate with some who still are in the field and there are some experiences with parents that are not amicable. The best thing I can say about this is always the big picture. As parents sit in the stands they focus on their sons success or failure. As a coach sitting on the bench I always focused on the teams success or failure.
It is not so much dnt talk to high school coaches or any coach for that matter but what you discuss and how you discuss it.

i was on the other side as my son played high school and college. there were things in his experience that sitting in the stands I did not particularly like but as I said before it dealt with my son and his situation. I remember him in high school one time moaning and groaning about something or other. I told him I did not have the answers. The man who made the lineup did. for some on this site maybe I should have talked to the coach? Well having been on the other side I had a different perspective. We always talked but he worked it out on his own. sooner or later they do.

Great topic! Sorry BHD this topic needs to be talked about from now on because it will always be a challenge for parents, coaches and players. I have never followed a set of rules when it came to my son's baseball. If I did I would have to modify it so drastically depending on the situation that I would surely be labeled a hypocrite. I will also admit I have a problem with a coach or ANY person telling me when, where, and in what tone of voice I should address him and then explaining what topics are off limits ---- unless that person is a law enforcement officer or in our military.

If this topic were black and white then I would follow the crowd that didn't talk to coaches about their son's baseball and where the son handled ALL his own problems. ------- However I feel as if there is no protocol here. It's not black and white. I can't begin to suggest how one should do (or not do) when it comes to talking with their son's coach. It all depends on Sooooo many things. All personalities have to be considered. Yours, your sons and the coaches plus every situation is different. Playing time or position COULD be a real issue in some situations but generally it is taboo and should be off limits.

I got VERY involved with my son's HS coach. It involved positions and abuse. Had I listened to my wife, my son, his coach or the HSBBW message boards I would have said nothing and the outcome would probably been an injury and career ending. But I (Fungo) had a problem and I was going to resolve it ---- and I did. When it was all over the coach apologized to me and said he would have done the same thing.

Bottom line: Most of the time the best thing to say is nothing. However voicing your opinion may be the best thing in some situations. Still not sure what to do? You can follow Davy Crockett's motto: "Be sure you're right, then go ahead"
Fungo

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
there is a fine line here..

Exactly.

This topic is getting weird. Common sense should prevail for everyone. There are many factors to consider when approaching a coach, experience, success, lack of success, trust, etc. and as Fungo did, when things become abusive for your player or others, if you have the experience and knowledge to add your suggestions. A few years ago one program hired a very young coach, who asked for help and suggestions. That may not be the norm for a coach who has coached for endless years.

Good point made, one wouldn't ask the math teacher why they are teaching certain material and to make changes, why would a parent do the same for a coach? We didn't always agree with what we saw or what coaches did, the only time we spoke up was after too long of an outing beginning of season.

Every team son was on in HS, there was always a pre season meeting where the coach spelled out his expectations from players and parents. Those things included a variety of issues, from helping raise funds to when to and when not to approach the coaching staff. If this isn't done, you leave the door wide open.

HS, is a good time for parents to learn to allow their sons to handle their issues and take a step back and to realize that all situations are different, you got to learn that. While your son maybe the stud on his HS team, he may not be in travel ball. While he may be the travel ball starter, he may not be in HS. My sons HS coach didn't always play the best 9, his travel coaches did.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:

quote:

Originally posted by fsmjunior:
IF you are a reasonable person and are capable of carrying an adult conversation then talking about your son's development and plan for the future should not and is not off limits for speaking with the HS coach.

Discussing development and discussing position and playing time are two different things. However, I believe a high school athlete is mature enough to discuss development with his coach. In most cases the athlete would understand the conversation better than the parent.

At our high school, when the varsity and JV teams were named the coaching staff sat with each player and discussed expectations and development for the season. At the end of the season there was a review, a check on summer development (team) and what to be prepared for in the following school year. Why would I need to get in the middle of this? I just ask my son what the coach's said.

I do talk baseball with the coaches. They know I'm a travel coach. I never discusseed my son unless they brought him up. At the end of the year I was thanked for being one of the few parents that never promoted his son.

In four years of high school I never did anymore with softball and my daughter than I did with my son as a freshman last year. The lengthy discussions came during recruiting time to make sure my daughter, her travel team and the high school team were on the same page. The high school coach was college player and had contacts. She was also the roving hitting instructor for my daughter's travel program (seven teams). I was a coach.

Well in this case it sounds as though your HS coaching staff has a solid program and open communication. Please don't tell me you think this happens everywhere. Plus, at my son's HS players are not allowed elsewhere in the summer.

Oh, one more thing, some teenage boys are capable of communicating with their coaches; but lets face it; communication is NOT a teenage boys forte.

quote:

Great topic! ...this topic needs to be talked about from now on because it will always be a challenge for parents, coaches and players.

Absolutely! Every once in a while, members have wondered "Why are we discussing this old topic again, when it has been discussed so many times here?". But our site has new members registering, and new visitors stopping by, every day. Most of the time, they don't even know the old threads exist.

I think this is one of the most important topics to become a recurring thread on the HS Baseball Web. NOT because there is a black-and-white answer, but because there are so many shades of gray. And in those shades of gray, we as parents learn how to let our sons go, while offering those last few years of guidance for their journey.

Julie

quote:

Originally posted by iheartbb:
Catching Coach-
I am not sure if you are bored, or what, but you are beginning to sound like a Troll.

No I am not bored. People on this forum that know me personally know I am a very level headed respectfull coach. I wanted to start this post off because I hear this general comment (Don't talk to HS Coaches) from nearly every HS player I encounter. Last summer at my catching summer camps I has HS age catchers from 26 different states attend. Nearly everyone of the 57 students indicated this is the "rule" at their school. I felt it would be good for the hundreds of people that come to this forum to see a good discussion of the issue.

quote:

-Quote by Catching Coach:
"So you are saying that High School coaches decisions about who gets to participate in a school sanctioned activity are totally without any accountability to the parents of the school district?

And by accountability I just mean that you feel coaches should not have to be under any obligation to explain their decisions to the parents? "

To the first part:

Yes coaches are accountable to the parents to provide a safe, tobacco free, enviornment to learn and develop a sport. They are usually also accountable to the school by way of the AD for all of their plans and actions for the season of their sport. They are also accountable to the school district and the section usually by way of some kind of Code of Ethics and to complete training that as required by the section.

To the second part:
It has been explained to you in many different ways, NO they are not under any obligation to explain their decisions to the parents. However, most coaches will take the time to explain their decisions with regard to your student athlete when asked with in the guildelines set for by the Athletic Director.

What part don't you understand?

What part don't I understand? I understand all of it, my goal was to question everyones answers to see if they can back it up and make it make sense. Maybe your answer will touch a chord with families that aren't comfortable with posting.

quote:

I would certainly like to know where you came up with this notion of coaches explaining their every move to the parents.

Check my original post, I never said that. I ask if parents can have a meeting to ask questions about their childs performance and participation. I never indicated the parent would expect every move to be explained.

quote:

There are many side issues to this subject. Are there coaches out of control? Yes. Are there parents out of control? Yes.
Some coaches are arrogant (but they are still accountable to the aforementioned).
Some parents are pure evil and have commited crimes against other parents and coaches in the name of their children.

In your work place are you prepared to receive phone calls or meetings with every member of your staff to evaluate each an every member of your staff on a daily or even weekly basis? If so, you must have a lot of spare time.

I surely don't agree with all of the coaching decisions, even when it does not involve my own student athlete. But,usually they teach a full day, get out to practice until dusk, try to catch dinner with the family, spend time with their kids, do whatever they need to do for class, and put time into planning how to get the team better, get some shut eye, and start over again.
So, given that timeline, do you really expect them to field 20 phone calls to "explain their decisons" to each and every parent? Come on, this is totally unrealistic, which is why I am thinking you may be Trolling us.

Again, no Troll here, just asking if folks can explain their reasons so others can learn. I am just trying to stir the pot so we can all hear what and why you feel the way you do.

I know there are many parents that will never call a teacher or an athletic coach. So no coach will ever get "20 calls".

I am well aware of the schedule a teacher that also coaches keeps. Been there, done that.

I, like many of you, have been dealing with coaches since my son was 6 years old all the way through 5 years of college. I could understand the "no talking to the coach" if all coaches were honorable and of good character. Unfortunately, they all are not. Most were - but, a few were not. Those are the ones with whom I had problems.

One day I will reveal a situation where I had to say something to the coach. I could not allow him to contunually discount my son and possibly shatter his confidence. I was not combative nor aggressive. I simply tried to engage him in a conversation about my concerns for my son. I'm sure I'm not alone and there is no cookie-cutter way to handle these issues. Every situation is different. Sometimes, depending on the coach and the situation, you have to "say" something on behalf of your son, at least I did.

Fungo, your reasons for intervention were totally different from "typical" attempts to talk to the coach. When safety/health was an issue you did EXACTLY THE RIGHT THING. I"m going to bet that you still did this in a manner that coach, player and parent all benefited. Again, not always "typical." I have always had parent meetings at the start of the season outlining how to have a discussion. I have always explained my rational for all. If your coach doesn't find a time to ask the coach how to proceed should you have to talk to them. I'm sure some will say for you to just come up and talk and some, such as myself, will have a communication plan. Doing this early and before any issues will enable all to know the avenues for communication.

quote:

Catching Coach, I was thinking that I'd be in your area and so, I thought I'd stop by and tell you how to run your business. Ok so I won't but what you suggest is exactly that.

CoachB25, As I have responded to others, I am trying to distill this question down to its simplest form. Can parents talk to coaches about their child's performance and participation? I agree completely with you that they should not be telling the coach what to do.

quote:

Coaches are accountable. If the school board,and/or administration doesn't like what they are doing, they will be fired. As my AD once said to me, "There are high expectations." I wouldn't have it any other way. However, get out of my way and let me coach. I'm not going to write out a lineup and run it to a parent such as yourself for approval.

I never asked you to have me approve the lineup, just wanted to talk about my son.

quote:

Regarding, "explaing their moves to parents," how far does that go.

This is the heart of the reason for my post. My hope is that parents that read this thread will better understand the different viewpoints from all sides of this very complicated issue.

quote:

Again, parents are entitled to talk about their kid and what that child needs to do to improve their chances of playing, or making it to the next level or... They should be aware of whatever format that discussion is to take place. I always requested that the AD and the child be present. I have my reasons for that. Mostly, if I'm going to talk about one of my players, I won't do it behind their back. I want the AD in there because most people really don't want honesty and have a hard time dealing with it.

GREAT!!! This is exactly the kind of answer I was hoping to be put out there. It would be great for parents to know that these discussions can take place but will be done with certain guidelines that have been laid down by the Athletic Dept.

quote:

You again suggested that the classroom and the sports area are the same. They are not.

I do not believe that the location of the instruction ie..in a class, in a music room, on a stage, or on a playing field changes anything. Well I guess you and I will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

quote:

Finally, anyone that talks to a coach must know that there are consequences for every action. It'd be the same in the business world. If you go complain, be aware that the boss might not appreciate it and so, be careful how you approach it.

This is why I tell parents of my students, "Do not go to complain, go to find out information about your child, his performance and the areas that need to improve"

quote:

Of course this is where you come with "I'm the taxpayer and so, I'm the boss." If so, no kid gets cut. Every kid plays equal minutes and we have the degrading of America continue.

Actually that is not what I would say, but since you brought it up,

quote:

Of course this is where you come with "I'm the taxpayer and so, I'm the boss."

No actually I was hoping the coach would take the position where he would realize that this parent has come to him, respectfully, privately, and with interest in finding out what their child needs to do to achieve better on this team. This parent cares about their child and is involved.

quote:

Every kid plays equal minutes and we have the degrading of America continue

Again, I never asked for this. I am well aware of the fact that in sports kids get cut. But this response highlights the fact that when a discussion about HS coaches and parents comes up folks on the coaches side of the discussion many times take the intent of the parents to extremes that were never intended. I realize that this is often because many coaches are victims of collateral damage from years of attacks by parents who do not know the guidelines of how to deal with issues related to High Schools and and the professionals that work with their children, in the formal classrooms or on the playing fields.

This is my very reason for starting this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by Catching Coach:

BOF, so if a parent has concerns about some of the issues above, and their 14 yr old son (freshman) came home with what they felt was an incomplete answer from the coach, are you saying that the parent should NOT ask the coach themselves his views on the matter?

Who felt incomplete? The player or the parent?

If my son thought he did not get all of his questions answered then I would discuss it with him and help him get his thoughts organized and let him go back and discuss it with the coach. It is his team, his life, let him learn to deal with it. I do the same thing whether it is math, science, english or baseball. Discuss it with him help him in the thought process and let him deal with it.

quote:

Originally posted by BOF:

quote:

Originally posted by Catching Coach:

BOF, so if a parent has concerns about some of the issues above, and their 14 yr old son (freshman) came home with what they felt was an incomplete answer from the coach, are you saying that the parent should NOT ask the coach themselves his views on the matter?

Who felt incomplete? The player or the parent?

If my son thought he did not get all of his questions answered then I would discuss it with him and help him get his thoughts organized and let him go back and discuss it with the coach. It is his team, his life, let him learn to deal with it. I do the same thing whether it is math, science, english or baseball. Discuss it with him help him in the thought process and let him deal with it.

My question is if the parent did not feel that the explanation was sufficient for the parent. The whole point to my original post is to highlight that parents have questions about the programs the school district makes available to the students. These questions may be on a level that only an adult parent may have. They are not student/teacher/coach issues. They are concerns parents have about how their child is being taught, motivated, and evaluated. The player may himself be fine with the situation. He may have no issues with the sports program as he sees it.

But does that eliminate the parent from having their own concerns addressed?

Let me add a facet to this discussion.

Should a parent approach the coach about a concern he has with some instruction the son is getting from the coaching staff?

Say, for instance, the coach is changing something about the player's hitting (stance or swing or whatever.) Player has a hitting coach, and the varsity coach is telling him to do things differently.

Should a parent talk to the coach? If so, what should be the goal of that talk?