Catching Coach you are giving me the impression that you are casting a huge blanket to cover all coaches that they cannot be talked to. I totally disagree with that because most of the coaches (all sports) are open and available to parents. Plus it's not a black and white issue like you are trying to make it. It's a very grey area and complicated area that factors into a lot of areas.

I'm going out on a limb here and say most bad reputations coaches get are undeserved. Parents on a team fall into one of three categories 1) great parents who work for the team to be better - small group; 2) parents who pretty much don't care if they help and you never see them - biggest group; 3) gripers, complainers and troublemakers - smallest group there is. All it takes is one or two of these people to start spreading stuff and next thing you know people think that is how the coach is. The squeeky wheel gets the grease - group 3 complain the loudest and that is what others hear. It becomes gospel then.

As a teacher and coach I see parents come up to me wanting to discuss classroom or baseball stuff. When I see them coming I start cussing in my head because I don't want to talk to them becuase they are idiots. It doesn't matter what I say - teaching or coaching - they won't listen or have a true understanding of how much skill their child has in class or baseball. I hate those conversations because nothing gets accomplished and they are cordial. They are nice to me and I am nice to them but the message doesn't sink in.

Then you have the after game explosion. Something happens and now the parents are ticked, the player is ticked and the coach is ticked. I am going to say 99% of coaches are going to try and avoid that parent(s) to keep from having an explosion but the parent(s) hunt the coach down. It doesn't matter what the truth is, what the facts are or whatever - this conversation is not going to go well and all parties go away mad and nothing is resolved. Emotions run high after games and incidents and that is not the best time to talk about it. This is why you hear coaches say " let's talk about it tomorrow" and with everyone sueing today that is why coaches want to sit down and talk with the AD and / or principal attending. We have to cover our rearends from parents who will try to ruin our career.

My first couple of years were horrible with parents. They went to the BOE to try and have me fired, they talked about me in the community, they spread lies about me, an older brother was doing the radio broadcast of a game and made fun of me on the air. Have you ever heard of that happening to Mr. Smith the math teacher? Teaching and coaching are two seperate jobs who happen to have similarities.

When parents come up to me and say "my son should play more" or "you should do this" that is something you don't hear parents tell teachers. When was the last time you heard a parent say "you should only give tests on Tuesdays" or "I think you should lecture on Wednesdays". That doesn't happen because it is the teachers job to determine when and how the subject matter is taught. Nobody really questions this. Same thing with coaching - it is the coaches job to teach the game and put the best players out there.

Now a parent has the right to ask me "what should my child be doing more to prepare for the test and assignments" or "how can my child get a stronger arm" but they have no right to tell me what to teach and how to teach. Same with coaching. When that happens we have too many chiefs and not enough indians. What does a parent expect to come out of the type of conversation where they tell / ask the coach for more playing time? There is no way the coach can comply with this no matter how politely they put it. Once that happens more parents start coming up and asking for the same thing. Chaos ensues.

So getting back to your original question - no coaches are not above being approached but there are limits as to when, how and what to talk about. I don't have any trouble at all talking to parents about whatever they want to talk about but like someone said earlier I am going to give my honest opinion. If they don't like it they are going to now blame me for their child's failures because they didn't hear what they wanted to hear.

Good parents you never have problems with because they trust the coach, they don't complain, they tell their child to work harder, or something like that.

Bad parents are problems because they don't want to hear the truth, don't understand reality, or they blame others for their failures.

Now I am not crazy enough to say that all coaches are approachable. Some aren't - some coaches are idiots just like some parents are idiots. You can't throw a blanket out there and have it cover everyone the same.

There isn't a real simple answer to this because it involves a lot of factors.

quote:

There are a lot more parents who would go to the coach first to find out what's wrong before the classroom teacher. Being a former teacher I know that for a fact. I have seen more parents devastated that their kids can't play baseball because of their grades than they may not graduate from HS.

You are very correct and it's pretty sad to be honest.

quote:

Originally posted by Catching Coach:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by zombywoof:
Parents need to stay away from the on-the-field playing time decisions. It's not their business.

So you are saying that High School coaches decisions about who gets to participate in a school sanctioned activity are totally without any accountability to the parents of the school district?.

Yes. That's right. In fact, read any athletic handbook for a given high school athlettics handbook , there's mention that some sports will have to make cuts to form their teams. when it comes to playing time, those are coaches decisions on who plays and how much. More specifically on the varsity level since jv and freshman are strictly developmental and playing time tends to be more distributed on those levels.

If I ever were to go to my son's head coaches when my son was in high school and questioned his playing time or why he's on the freshman team and not the varsity, he'd have been embarrassed and probably tell me to not show up to any games. He said he knew how to handle that stuff and have wouldn't wanted me butting in.

quote:

And by accountability I just mean that you feel coaches should not have to be under any obligation to explain their decisions to the parents?

Not unless the head coach felt the need to reach out to me for something. Then I'd be willing to talk to the head coach.

Parents have to be careful about getting to chummy with them because they'll come off as aizz kissers and that's the last thing a player of that parent needs to deal with. Those players will lose respect from their teammates which could be a problem.

When there's a need to talk to the coaches about the program in general or something to help or improve the program and the part your son plays a role in or the parents, that's different.

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
Catching Coach you are giving me the impression that you are casting a huge blanket to cover all coaches that they cannot be talked to. I totally disagree
with that because most of the coaches (all sports) are open and available to parents. Plus it's not a black and white issue like you are trying to make it. It's a very grey area and complicated area that factors into a lot of areas.

I'm not casting a huge blanket at all. I am throwing out for discussion a question that gets asked of me each year by more parents then I can count. I hear it from parents with kids playing all different sports, girls and guys alike. The amount of comments I get from parents all over the country seem to point that it is a very common concern for parents of high school athletes.

quote:

I'm going out on a limb here and say most bad reputations coaches get are undeserved. Parents on a team fall into one of three categories 1) great parents who work for the team to be better - small group; 2) parents who pretty much don't care if they help and you never see them - biggest group; 3) gripers, complainers and troublemakers - smallest group there is. All it takes is one or two of these people to start spreading stuff and next thing you know people think that is how the coach is. The squeeky wheel gets the grease - group 3 complain the loudest and that is what others hear. It becomes gospel then.

I have a 4th group....call it group 1A. parents who wish they could be more involved but have so many things pulling them in different directions. My wife and I were in this group for years with 4 school age kids at the same time. Don't assume because they aren't involved that they are in group 2.

quote:

As a teacher and coach I see parents come up to me wanting to discuss classroom or baseball stuff. When I see them coming I start cussing in my head because I don't want to talk to them becuase they are idiots. It doesn't matter what I say - teaching or coaching - they won't listen or have a true understanding of how much skill their child has in class or baseball. I hate those conversations because nothing gets accomplished and they are cordial. They are nice to me and I am nice to them but the message doesn't sink in.

As a former high school teacher I have had my share of those conversations myself. As a Special Ed teacher working with parents to try to get them to get a true handle on their child's skill set was many times a frustrating time. I know those situations are out there.

quote:

Then you have the after game explosion. Something happens and now the parents are ticked, the player is ticked and the coach is ticked. I am going to say 99% of coaches are going to try and avoid that parent(s) to keep from having an explosion but the parent(s) hunt the coach down. It doesn't matter what the truth is, what the facts are or whatever - this conversation is not going to go well and all parties go away mad and nothing is resolved. Emotions run high after games and incidents and that is not the best time to talk about it. This is why you hear coaches say " let's talk about it tomorrow" and with everyone sueing today that is why coaches want to sit down and talk with the AD and / or principal attending. We have to cover our rearends from parents who will try to ruin our career.

Absolutely agree, after game is an unacceptable time to talk to a coach

quote:

My first couple of years were horrible with parents. They went to the BOE to try and have me fired, they talked about me in the community, they spread lies about me, an older brother was doing the radio broadcast of a game and made fun of me on the air. Have you ever heard of that happening to Mr. Smith the math teacher? Teaching and coaching are two seperate jobs who happen to have similarities.

I have heard far worse things said about classroom teachers. Coaches have no corner on the market for being bad mouth in the community

quote:

When parents come up to me and say "my son should play more" or "you should do this" that is something you don't hear parents tell teachers. When was the last time you heard a parent say "you should only give tests on Tuesdays" or "I think you should lecture on Wednesdays". That doesn't happen because it is the teachers job to determine when and how the subject matter is taught. Nobody really questions this. Same thing with coaching - it is the coaches job to teach the game and put the best players out there.

As I have said, I tell parents to not ask questions like you have mentioned. I agree they are not the appropriate way to address the issue the parent has. I suggest they might want to ask the coach what skills their child would need to improve and to what level for the coach to feel the child may be able to contribute more to the teams performance. That puts the pressure where it belongs, right on the player, and the coach.

The player will learn what he needs to do better and to what level, and the coach will be responding in a way that gives the parent and player the scope of the work that needs to be done, and the measuring tool to determine if he has achieved to the needed level. Sounds like an educational approach to athletics that mirrors the classroom.

quote:

Now a parent has the right to ask me "what should my child be doing more to prepare for the test and assignments" or "how can my child get a stronger arm" but they have no right to tell me what to teach and how to teach. Same with coaching. When that happens we have too many chiefs and not enough indians. What does a parent expect to come out of the type of conversation where they tell / ask the coach for more playing time? There is no way the coach can comply with this no matter how politely they put it. Once that happens more parents start coming up and asking for the same thing. Chaos ensues.

As I have said, I am not advocating parents asking for more playing time, I speak to this comment above.

quote:

So getting back to your original question - no coaches are not above being approached but there are limits as to when, how and what to talk about. I don't have any trouble at all talking to parents about whatever they want to talk about but like someone said earlier I am going to give my honest opinion. If they don't like it they are going to now blame me for their child's failures because they didn't hear what they wanted to hear.

I agree there are many parents that will take this approach, and it is frustrating as an educator.

quote:

Good parents you never have problems with because they trust the coach, they don't complain, they tell their child to work harder, or something like that.

Bad parents are problems because they don't want to hear the truth, don't understand reality, or they blame others for their failures.

Good parents are also ones that stay involved in their child's lives and respectfully voice their concerns and questions to those professionals they have entrusted their child to.

quote:

Now I am not crazy enough to say that all coaches are approachable. Some aren't - some coaches are idiots just like some parents are idiots. You can't throw a blanket out there and have it cover everyone the same.

There isn't a real simple answer to this because it involves a lot of factors.

I could not agree more.

At our school, our head coach welcomes communication from players and parents. Yes, he is also a teacher at the HS.

One of our coaches (also a teacher) this season was a complete *ss
when it came to motivating the players - totally negative and often demeaning, and swore at the players like crazy. A lot of us wondered if he used the same language in his math classes. Many parents had a problem with him, trouble is they took the wrong approach dealing with it. They talked too much ABOUT him and not enough time talking TO him about their concerns.

I have worked closely with the coaching staff in a volunteer role, and to be honest, I believe they really enjoy getting to know the parents and building positive relationships. Over the years though, they do become jaded about parents only choosing to communicate with them when the parent feels their player is getting cheated on the field.

They do have a rule in place that it is not proper for the parents to come to the coach with concerns about playing time or about other players.
You may only speak about your own player. If you have a concern about health, this is also ok.

Steps if you are experiencing a concern:

1. talk to the coach - preferably player takes first step, but if needed parent can be present while player speaks to make sure the communication is clear. (Remember, you can only talk about your own player, and player can only speak about himself.

2. If dissatisfaction remains after above, contact AD. AD will speak with coach, and after assessing the situation, a meeting may be called for AD, coach and player and parent to attend.

3. If dissatifaction remains after the above, AD will speak with Principal, and after assessing the situation, a meeting may be called for AD, coach and principal, then player and parent are brought in.

4. If dissatisfaction remains after the above, you are on the road to a series of meetings with the School Board, and beyond ??


Rarely is everyone (parents)is happy, many have expectations that do not become reality. BUT, usually the kids on the team know who the nine best players are and many times there are reasons why one gets the nod over the other for a variety of reasons that sometimes, we as parents are not privy to. Sometimes our kids don't convey the whole story, intentionally or just because they might be mad or embarrassed that they have done something that has cost him his position.

I think the phrase "Don't talk to the high school coaches?" = "Don't complain to the high school coaches"

If you can maintain your composure during communications with a coach, as if you were in a business meeting, the conversation will go a lot longer,and you may come to understand the coach had legitimate reasons for doing whatever it is you are questioning. Or, the coach may be able to hear what you or your player are saying, and offer a course of positive action.

Not all coaches are princes though, take the proper steps with your communications so you are not in the "just another parent going off at me" catagory.

Catching Coach based on your answers I think you and I are pretty much on the same page as to what a coach should be approached about. I hope I didn't come across as an attack but there are some things you put that seems like you were casting a blanket.

Everyone is accountable in everything they do - it's called personal responsibility. Iheartbb that is a great list and I would like to throw out another step that should be first if you don't care.

1. Have the player talk to the coach / teacher first. HS players are becoming grown men and learning responsibility. Best way to learn responsibility is to have them discuss their concerns with the coach / teacher. Then if there is still something to talk about then start with your number one. It's a great opportunity to teach the child some personal responsiblity. If they are not happy with their role on the team / class talk it over with the person who makes decisions.

This is a great discussion.

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
Catching Coach based on your answers I think you and I are pretty much on the same page as to what a coach should be approached about. I hope I didn't come across as an attack but there are some things you put that seems like you were casting a blanket.

This is a great discussion.

The blanket was intended to be as wide as I could word it. That way the thread might cover as many scenarios as the forum readers might experience.

My camp has afforded me the opportunity to converse with parents from all over the country. It is clear that this is a real hot button from all sides and from all areas of the country. Good discussion I agree

Oldslugger8-


You are right, these discussions are old, and yet they will continue to be new again and again as a new freshman class comes into school each year.

It it worth repeating, for those that have no clue.

quote:

Originally posted by iheartbb:
Oldslugger8-


You are right, these discussions are old, and yet they will continue to be new again and again as a new freshman class comes into school each year.

It it worth repeating, for those that have no clue.

The parents whose child is their first experience in the world of high school sports are still hearing they have to stop being a parent or at least that the coaches will define what their role as parents should be.

Unless you have been in the shoes of a HS coach its hard to understand why they do what they do and why they dont do what you think they should do. And the experience level of the coach and his ability to communicate with his players and his parents is critical to developing relationships. There are many different types of coaches and many different types of parents. Just like there are teachers who are a flat pain in the you know what and coaches as well. Just like there are parents that are a pain in the you know what.

How a coach reacts to a parent talking to them can be directly related to a number of things. What are you talking to them about? When are you trying to talk to them? How do you approach them? I talk to our players. I tell them to come to the coaching staff if they have a problem with anything. I do not want to talk to a parent unless I have already talked to the player. If the player is not satisfied with what I have to say and they want their parent to talk to me all I ask is the player be present during the conversation. I will not discuss another player with another parent. I will not have constant discussions about the same issues during the season.

I have never had a parent of a player that was actually a "player" come to me about his kid outside of general discussion about college programs and the season in general. The only parents I have ever had come to me with complaints have been the parents of kids that were trying to get mom and dad to gain an advantage for them they were too lazy to work for.

The bottom line is if your program is one where the best players play. The ones that work hard are rewarded for their hard work. And there are no parental politics played the players looking for mom and dad to earn them something stop coming out for the team.

Now I understand there might be some parents with kids in tough situations in programs that are not legit with coaches that are not legit. But if you have to talk to the coach in order to get your kid on the field thats a pretty hollow victory imo. Either transfer him to a program that is legit. Or ride it out and teach him to battle through it and get ready for the summer team.

I know some will not agree with this post. I understand that. I also understand that I believe in playing the players that earn their playing time. I believe in playing the best players. I am not going to start playing someone because their parent talked to me. The player already knows why he is not playing because I have told him. But I also know he already knows why. I also know he knows what he needs to do to get more playing time because I have told him. The players that work the hardest and invest the most seem to always be the ones getting the playing time. I never have to talk to their parents. But I seek them out to tell them what a great kid they have. The parents of the players that never work after practice. Never do anything more than the bare minimum are the ones that bark the loudest when their son does not play. Sorry but this is my experience.

I have never had one talk with any coach that has ever coached any of my kids. Ever. One year my oldest made the All Star team and they played 20 games. He shagged bp and warmed up the outfielder between innings. He never got an ab or played one inning. I never said a word to the coach. I just told my kid to work harder so the next time he made a team they would want him in the line up. And he did. I am a firm believer that HS sports are a time to let go and let them find their way.

Go ahead and take your shots. But I have not had to have a meeting with a disgruntled parent in many years. I have a great relationship with my parents and my players. We just dont have any players that would go to mom and dad. They would be very P off if it happened. They take care of their own business. And I take care of them.

I dont coach the parents. I coach the players. If the parents dont like me I can live with that. As long as the players are happy and they are learning and we are winning , Im good!

quote:

I coach the players. If the parents dont like me I can live with that. As long as the players are happy and they are learning and we are winning , Im good!

Amen. You respect your players and you play the best 9. They deserve no less. A quality coach builds his reputation to the point where the new players (and their parents) know the deal before they get there. Playing time is earned and the coach makes out the line up.

I've seen new coaches struggle and lose crediblity by letting a parent influence the line up. It opens the flood gates of whining.

There is a new book out on the shelves titled:

Nation of Wimps - The Growing Problem of Invasive Parenting. It goes into great detail how meddling parents are causing their kids a great disservice by not allowing them to solve their own problems, make decisions, etc.

Some parents of high school athletes would benefit from reading this book.

This is interesting discussion---any HS coach I spoke with was always at their behest---they either called me or talked with me at a game either before or after---that was their perogative--I have been at restaurants where it just so happened the coach was there ( the restuarant was owned by the parents of on of my sons team mates) when he sent a drink over for my wife and I with an invite to join them for dessert---we had a great respect for each other--in fact Coach insisted that he pick my son and I up for the Awards Dinner

As one who oversees a Travel program I see the same problems you see at the HS level--yes I will talk with parents but it all depends on how they approach the situation---we carry a load of pitchers when we enter tournaments and we make sure we will play a consolation game if we do not get out of pool play---

let me give you and example of how a parent should not do things--we were in a tournament where we were assured of playing at least 5 games---understand that my coaching staff runs the game and I sit outside the dugust either on a cart or on a seat (bucket) so I guess I am accessible to parents if they want me---I have no porblem with that--- we are midway through the second game (of 5 assured) and this one Dad not once but twice comes at me with all other parents around bellowing about how am I going to get all the pitchers in--after the second visit he made, I looked him in the eye and told him very bluntly ( get out of my freaking face!)---keep in mind we still had at least three plus games to play even if we did not get out of pool play

His son got his time when it was all said and done but DAD never came near me the rest of the weekend---he didnt dare


He could have easily talked to me alone, one on one, but he confronted me in the middle of a game

Parents need to know when to talk and when to SHUT UP !!! He made a fool of himself

I am akin to Coach May---we are what we are and do not cross the lines---I have been know to make late night vists to check rooms not too mention sending a kid home in the middle of a trip

Catching Coach-
I respectfully disagree that coaches good or bad are telling parents at the first meeting of the season "Don't talk to us about anything, your role as a parent will be to _________".

I think PEOPLE who happen to be parents spread this attitude among eachother from different sources, which usually turn out to be rumor.

At our school, we happen to have an outstanding music program, the same thing occurs there.

When a student begins his/her high school experience one of the first things they and their do is sign the student handbook, which outlines the rules of the school. It also clearly explains what to do if a student or parent has a problem and what will happen if a student breaks said rules.

Then, if they choose to play a sport, they are both again asked to sign the Athletic Handbook which also clearly explains the rules of being a student althlete. The steps to resolving problems are found there.

Being a parent does not end by signing these handbooks. You and your student sign them to show that you are agreeing to enter high school knowing and abiding by the rules of the school. Once you have read the handbooks, you as a parent KNOW what the steps are to resolution of your problems at school or in the athletic/music, etc. departments.
I think you can define your own role as a parent of a high school athlete in any way you like despite the fact that guidelines and rules are in place. They are there for a reason, but they do not define you as a parent.

I agree that it is a complicated subject due to the fact that there are so many variables involved, size of school, size of district, geographic location, etc.
I hope that any parents that are just now entering the high school years will read this board and gleen some good info to chew on. Knowledge is power.

quote:

Originally posted by CNY2010:
There is a new book out on the shelves titled:

Nation of Wimps - The Growing Problem of Invasive Parenting. It goes into great detail how meddling parents are causing their kids a great disservice by not allowing them to solve their own problems, make decisions, etc.

Some parents of high school athletes would benefit from reading this book.

So are you saying parents should never meet with high school educators regarding concerns they have about their kids?

Catching Coach

The last post seems like "bait on the water"

quote:

Originally posted by iheartbb:
Catching Coach-
I respectfully disagree that coaches good or bad are telling parents at the first meeting of the season "Don't talk to us about anything, your role as a parent will be to _________".

I think PEOPLE who happen to be parents spread this attitude among eachother from different sources, which usually turn out to be rumor.

Unfortunately I have been told of coaches that actually do say just that. I personally know of no coach that does, but I have been told it is so.

quote:

At our school, we happen to have an outstanding music program, the same thing occurs there.

When a student begins his/her high school experience one of the first things they and their do is sign the student handbook, which outlines the rules of the school. It also clearly explains what to do if a student or parent has a problem and what will happen if a student breaks said rules.

Then, if they choose to play a sport, they are both again asked to sign the Athletic Handbook which also clearly explains the rules of being a student althlete. The steps to resolving problems are found there.

Being a parent does not end by signing these handbooks. You and your student sign them to show that you are agreeing to enter high school knowing and abiding by the rules of the school. Once you have read the handbooks, you as a parent KNOW what the steps are to resolution of your problems at school or in the athletic/music, etc. departments.
I think you can define your own role as a parent of a high school athlete in any way you like despite the fact that guidelines and rules are in place. They are there for a reason, but they do not define you as a parent.

I agree that it is a complicated subject due to the fact that there are so many variables involved, size of school, size of district, geographic location, etc.
I hope that any parents that are just now entering the high school years will read this board and gleen some good info to chew on. Knowledge is power.

This is indeed a complicated subject, thanks for your input.

Let me say first that both my kids dealt with their coaches and we as parents stayed out of it. Even with injuries. I have found that coaches in general who have confidence in what they are doing will communicate with parents. Coaches who don't have confidence won't communitcate with parents and avoid them at all cost. This goes for classroom teachers too. The more coaches and teachers communicate with parents, the less problems there will be throughout the semester and season.