It's pretty funny at times on this board when people will read into a comment something that is not there, respond to it and end up having an argument with themselves.

My point was that I do not agree with the statement that it is a "100% based on the baseball program." Nor would I agree that it is 100% based on the academic program. Its about finding a good combination of both in my mind.

No one mentioned "Area of study" or "Cost of attendance" as selection criteria for choosing a school.

I lean more toward Coach May's thinking in that if the college is accredited, there is no reason you cannot get a valuable education there.

What area of study you want to pursue has to come into the equation, to some degree. While Vanderbilt is a great school, both academically and in baseball, if my son wants a degree in Agricultural Economics, it would not be the right fit. He would need to look at a state Agricultural school (MS State, Auburn, Clemson, UTK, etc.) to prove that educational need. Now if he wanted a degree in Business Administration, Vandy would be an awesome choice.

A lot of the premise here seems to be that the 17-19 year old HS senior is making the decisions either autonomously or his parents are forcing it down his throat. I'd say it's a rare HS senior that is capable of the critical thinking needed to make an autonomous decision about their education and how it will effect them down the road.

The influences we parents exert on them are tremendous. I doubt that the baseball side of this argument exerts any less influence on their kids than the academic side. Saying that, "my son made the choice himself", is either admitting you played no role in parental involvement at all in his upbringing, or that you won't admit the influence and direction you've been pointing him in all along.

In baseball vs. academics, there is no right or wrong answer. This portion of the decision process is not about fit, it's about what is right for that individual at that point in time of his life. Once this question is answered, then fit enters into the equation as part of the narrowing down and elimination process.

quote:

I am astounded when parents who have pushed baseball as a full time job since a player was 6 sudenly tell him that they really didn't mean it, it was the scholarship $ and the prestige of the institution that really matters.

Why would a parent push athletics over academics at any time? In our house academics have always come first. Chances are success in life is going to come from education, not athletics.

.

quote:

Why would a parent push athletics over academics at any time?

Sad as it is, we have watched scores of kids who were enabled and not expected to achieve in the classroom by parents(and teachers administrators and school districts) simply because they could hit, run, throw, or put a ball through a hoop. Happens in HS, happens in college and beyond.

...In the bigger picture, I would suggest that it is not an either or...it is one (aheltics)supporting the other (academics)...in both directions. Both have valuable lessons to teach.

44
.

Baseball can be an important part of a young man's life and I don't see anything wrong with balancing, not sacraficing, academics with baseball in the college years. One also has to be realistic about using baseball to push a player into an academic situation he isn't prepared for.

The window for baseball is very short while education can continue for a lifetime.

Just curious... how many of you had your parents make your college choice? I'm sure my situation was not the norm - parents recently divorced and dealing with their own issues, not really interested. I paid my way through night school at a junior college (which is now, amazingly, a D1) while working for a year or so, then asked my grandmother for help, plus student loans, to finish my undergrad degree at UGA.

I will help my son with information to make his choice, and will give him input when he asks, but the choice will be his.

quote:

...In the bigger picture, I would suggest that it is not an either or...it is one (aheltics)supporting the other (academics)...in both directions. Both have valuable lessons to teach.

Well said 44. IMHO, Although it will never happen any 4 year athlete who graduates with an academic major should be rewarded with a Minor degree in Athletics. They put in the time, effort, and committment that deserves the award and it would be a plus on any resume.

My son made his choice However I had veto power over his decision.
I actually liked a D11 in Connecticut but he wanted D1 in the South. He had a fabulous time all 4 years. On a stretch BB may have been 10% in the decision. A decent education was mandatory and I felt almost any NCAA school would provide that. Location was # 1 factor.
5 guys I know who graduated from the school absolutely loved it. Everyone said they would stay there if they could.

College soph son is home for fall break. We've had some good talks about "life". He's very thankful looking back that he took so many AP and college classes in high school. Some of his friends have commented to him this week that they wish they had taken more AP classes in high school.

He feels that regardless of where you graduate from college that if you have good grades and good people skills you will be successful in the work place. He's young and naive in some ways but I think he nailed it for the most part.

In retrospect he absolutely knew where he didn't want to go to college, regardless of the prestige of the school. No matter how well respected a school is if it's not a good fit for the player he may not thrive.

Don't limit yourself with poor grades and poor effort in high school. Good academics and good baseball go hand in hand.

quote:

Originally posted by observer44:
...In the bigger picture, I would suggest that it is not an either or...it is one (aheltics)supporting the other (academics)...in both directions. Both have valuable lessons to teach.
44
.

CPLZ also makes good points, there is no right or wrong answer. This is an individual decision, each particular player makes his choice based upon what is best for him.

As I have stated over and over, it's really pretty simple, work hard on the field and in the classroom and you will have good academic choices and good baseball choices.

With regard to "success" in life based on the prestige of the college that is attended:

If a student applies himself, he can get a great education at almost any college in this country.
But the issue here isn't just the quality of the education. It's also the value of the diploma.

A diploma from a prestige school is more valuable, hands-down. The less prestigious diploma doesn't preclude "success". Cream rises. But the more-prestigious diploma makes it easier, and more likely.

For example: all other things being equal (including LSAT scores), when applying to law school, if your son has 3.8 GPA from a prestigious college, he has a considerable advantage than with the same GPA from a non-prestigious college.

Similarly, in baseball, D-3 studs are at a disadvantage vs. D-1 studs in the MLB draft. Common sense.

How to define a prestige school? Some of us can categorize the prestige of various schools, the same way that others can do the same with college baseball programs.

Notably, with academics, as opposed to baseball programs, it's the perceived value of the degree that counts (it may, or may not, correspond with academic rigor).

Harvard, for instance, is notorious for allowing kids to skate through academically. Loads of gut courses to choose from. But the Harvard diploma is worth gold, regardless.

(By contrast, there are far few gut courses available at smaller academically prestigious schools such as Amherst, Hopkins, etc.)

quote:

For example: all other things being equal (including LSAT scores), when applying to law school, if your son has 3.8 GPA from a prestigious college, he has a considerable advantage than with the same GPA from a non-prestigious college.

Actually the Dean of Law at my college told me the most successful lawyers weren't the high IQ guys. Yes they had to be smart but they also look for well rounded individuals.

I knew a Harvard grad years ago that drove a taxi. A Harvard grad who was also a prof at Harvard was elected head of a political party here. He is the biggest screw up I have ever heard. His approach has dropped the party way down in the polls. Not smart enough to see how messed up his approach is.
I know human resource guys who generally stay away from prestige grads. Something about arrogant and aloof.

quote:

I knew a Harvard grad years ago that drove a taxi.

If a Harvard grad is driving a taxt he made that decision. He didn't have to be driving a cab.

Supreme Court Justice Stevens, Harvard Law grad was once asked if he was concerned about the number of Supreme Court Justices from elite law schools. He responded, "Some of them went to Yale."

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
Supreme Cout Justice Stevens, Harvard Law grad was once asked if he was concerned about the number of Supreme Court Justices from elite law schools. He responded, "Some of them went to Yale."

I think sense of humor is a very underrated quality in a Supreme Court Justice.

With regard to previous examples...exceptions don't make the rule, and this post exemplifies that the world is full of dissenting and also wrong opinions .

Bobblehead,
My statement referreed to success at getting into law school, not success at practicing law. Once you've got your foot in the door--hired by a law firm--cream rises, with "success" based on an attorney's drive, interpersonal skills, and hunger for dollars--rather than his soon-forgotten academic record.

I know 3 relatively successful Lawyers who packed it in and became teachers.
My son's one roommate had his choice of any Law school he wanted. He chose U of South Carolina. Didn't need to be a Harvard grad or any prestige school.
I studied at Grays Inn London England. We had to sit term which was a large dinner and drink up 3 times a year. The supreme court Justices sat at the head table. They were funny old geezers many who had to be wheeled in and out of the dinner. They had a tradition of sitting in messes of 4 and they had to toast each other repeatedly thought the evening resulting in a drunken party.

You don't even need a college degree to get in and it cost a few hundred dollars a year to attend. Every Barrister in the British Common Wealth has to attend one of the 4 inns.

http://www.graysinn.info/

I know a guy that can suck a string of spaghetti up his nose and pull it out of his mouth...and he's a doctor that graduated from University of Illinois.

So that must mean all Doctors in Illinois get plenty of carbohydrates.

Yup shows how irrelevant where you attend it is even to be a circus act in Illinois.

Freddy: and the ability to bill 25 hours for every 24 hour day.