How much should acedemics weigh in picking a school to play at?

It would depend on the player's aspirations. In my kid's case I've told them to use baseball/softball to get into the best school you like. Use the sport. Don't let it use you. In our house there aren't any delusions of making a living playing sports. The decision was for one, and will be for the other 80% academics and 20% sports.

RJM thats how I feel I feel that most high school juniors and seniors don't consider this.

quote:

It would depend on the player's aspirations.

Agreed. The 80/20 rule is perfect in your situation as these are personal decisions.

In our case, my son is 100% baseball. He is lucky that I love the game as much as he does.

100% based on the baseball program. I wonder if someone could post a list of the college baseball programs that kids choose that do not also offer the opportunity to get a college degree?

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
100% based on the baseball program. I wonder if someone could post a list of the college baseball programs that kids choose that do not also offer the opportunity to get a college degree?

It depends how much value is placed in the decision making process on getting a degree from Timbuktu State or a more prestigious university. In your son's case he got the best of both worlds. If my son's choice is between a D3 program like Hopkins or D1 at Timbuktu he'll be at Hopkins.

In FB son's case, Baseball opened doors that would not have been available on grades alone. Since he had very good grades (but not elite) many very good academic schools were now on the radar and gave him a very good cross section to consider and compare. He got to see the difference between State U, Top 25, Ivy and Strong Academic/strong sports, strong academic/weak sports etc.

At the end, it still came down to a strong Baseball program with good coaching and possibilities down the road. That it ended up being a very strong academic school is going to be a bonus he will appreciate when his playing days are done...

JMO, but any high school athlete that is not drafted in the top 10 rounds is crazy not to select academics over athletics. Go to the Ivy League school where you will not play in front of 5000 fans but you will be treated very well and get a great education.

cbg I'm not sure that is good advice.

Can someone name an NCAA college that doesn't have good academics ? Colleges that you can graduate from and not get a good job ? Colleges that stifle an intelligent grad from reaching his potential ?

Is every kid cut out to attend an Ivy type college ? Do only Ivy grads get great jobs ?

U wonder why all those colleges pay millions of dollars to crank out worthless degrees ? Do you think someone might have exposed them for what they are or are not ?

Rarely would I find myself disagreeing with Coach May but I do in this case. Not all degrees are created equal. Even with a solid academic and great baseball conference like the ACC, you will find quite a difference between the top academic schools and the bottom. You want to attempt to get the best possible academic and baseball program that you can.

Someone who played in the minor leagues and went to Omaha with Michigan told me once that you want to go to a school that passes the "resume test". How would a potential employer view your resume with that school's name attached to it.

If you evaluate D1 schools from the perspective of the top academic/ baseball schools, I think you'll find the list of qualifying schools is quite small.

quote:

Someone who played in the minor leagues and went to Omaha with Michigan told me once that you want to go to a school that passes the "resume test". How would a potential employer view your resume with that school's name attached to it.

Who administers this test ?

I went to an NAIA college; every class i ever took there was taught by a PHD.. there was no such thing as a GTA. the average class size was probably 15-20 students. The reason I was in college was to get an education, the reason I went to that particular college was to play baseball while going to college.

There were classes that I got a tremendous amount from and classes that i probably gained little, but most of that was due to me and my efforts; not the school. You get out of it what you put into it.

I am sure there are some professions where the right name on your degree can make a difference but for me the small school worked out great so I could play ball and get a degree.

Skipper that is true in most cases. I had classes that had 30-40 and others that had 200+ . All the pofs were PHDs and some were useless. My commerce courses were former and current board of directors on major companies. My commerce classes were great compared to the general education courses.
My so loved his commerce classes. He actually started reading books about business without being told to do so. He also started asking me business questions and I could tell he had a genuine interest in the subject.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
cbg I'm not sure that is good advice.

Can someone name an NCAA college that doesn't have good academics ? Colleges that you can graduate from and not get a good job ? Colleges that stifle an intelligent grad from reaching his potential ?

Is every kid cut out to attend an Ivy type college ? Do only Ivy grads get great jobs ?

U wonder why all those colleges pay millions of dollars to crank out worthless degrees ? Do you think someone might have exposed them for what they are or are not ?

Why is going to an Ivy League school not good advice? Do you not go to college to better your station in life? Do some successful people have a BS/BA from small private schools and large public institutions, yes they do. Just because you have an Ivy League education is no guarantee for success but it will allow you to walk to the front of the line and give you every advantage possible. Do what your heart tells you to do but the numbers say that in the long run people have more opportunities if they attend the Ivy League school over a large state university. I am one of those that has a BS from the large state university and have coached at the large state universtiy.

Where is the line drawn at being academic prestigious? Ivy's, Service Academy's, Private schools from the east, west, north, south, midwest? Or is it schools that graduate 100,90,80,60,40%?

Prestigious academics sounds alot like projectability... It depends on what you do with your gift!

If your son is offered by a school he really wants to attend and play baseball at , the school is a great fit for him as far as baseball is concerned. He is a baseball player and has worked his butt off to earn an opportunity to continue to play the game. And now you come in and say "Your not going to that school. Your going to _____ because that is the best fit for you academically. And then it turns into a fiasco for him on the field. You will have to live with that and so will he.

You can get a great education in college its up to you. Or you can not and that is up to you as well. When parents start manipulating where there son is going to go watch out. Especially when your son is an athlete and has worked so hard to earn an opportunity and wants the best baseball situation he can find for himself. When you tell him he is not going to go the school of his choice and he ends up in a place that he is miserable remember this post.

If he goes to the school of his choice and ends up miserable then fine, help him out and do what you have to do. But thats a total different scenario than the one I am talking about. I had a player who chose to attend a Historically Black College which was D1. It was his only D1 offer. It was the best baseball program that offered him and it offered him an opportunity to play against some top tier programs during his career. He was an outstanding student and turned down some very good offers from highly ranked academic institutions. He had a great career , got his degree and is doing very well.

I guess his parents could have told him no. They could have scoffed at the idea that baseball was important enough to make the decision based on his dreams and love of the game. His desire to compete at the highest level he could compete against. And he could have looked in the mirror the rest of his life and said "What if?" And the parents would be doing the same thing right along with him.

The idea that your son has to attend this U or that U to get a great college education I dont buy. I dont believe for one minute that going to this U or that U defines you or your kid. Its what you do where you are that is important not where you are at. The player is the one that has earned whatever opportunities they are offered. It should ultimately be their decision to make. And this is just my opinion and thats all it is. Everyone has a right to their own.

But baseball players that are willing to make the sacrifices that this game will demand of them take their baseball very seriously. Its not as simple as saying academics are first and baseball is second when choosing a school. Finding the right fit is used here alot. Finding the right fit could mean something entirely different to another person. When a player feels he has found the right fit and then someone else says "No this is the right fit" , dont be surprised when things dont fit for anyone when its all said and done.

Academics are very important to me just like all of you. But if my son had said "I want to go to Timbuktoo U because thats where I feel comfortable and thats where I want to go" I would have had my say and when it was all said and done he would have went where his heart led him. And I would have supported the heck out of him the entire way. Again this is just my opinion. It doesnt mean I am right. It only means that I know baseball is much more important to some than some want to admit on this site.

.
..and this is just my opinion, but...

...You've nailed another one Coach May.

It is not a simple decision to be made by the popular opinion of masses, it is comlex and completely personal to the player, for the success or failure at any school (or any larger success for that matter) in the end depends upon the dreams, passion and character of the player involved.

I am astounded when parents who have pushed baseball as a full time job since a player was 6 sudenly tell him that they really didn't mean it, it was the scholarship $ and the prestige of the institution that really matters.


.

If you ask a 100 people this question then you will get 100 different answers. What works for Johnny doesn't always work for Bobby. Frank may use baseball as a way to get an education and Billy may use education as a way to get to play baseball. Mark may want / thrive on a huge campus while Melvin wants the small campus atmosphere. There are thousands of possibilities of the "right fit" and if you get something out of it then you did the right thing.

Honestly there are only a few schools out there that make future employers take notice. Overall where you go to isn't that important. Think about it this way - you could go to Harvard and graduate top 10 and your future is set. But another person can go to a small school that is just as tough academically but no a lot of people have heard of it. The future employer probably doesn't know the quality of education that the applicant has. Getting a degree from an accredited school is an accomplishment but like others have said - no matter the school there are phenomenal teachers and there are idiots. There are PHDs who can teach and those who can't teach. There are GTAs who can probably do a better job than the teacher and those who would mess up a hot cup of coffee.

Using that logic if you have the opportunity to play at the next level (no matter what the level) then you should take it. Being a college athlete at a small NAIA school will open a lot of doors being a graduate from State U won't. Being a college athlete makes the resume stand out because you are a competitor. If you can get a degree then you got a degree and unless it's one of those online places you have degree that will hold up over time.

Trojan Skipper's story about his going to college is pretty much my story. Small NAIA school so I could play ball and my first two years I could care less about classes and majors. I wanted to play ball and then I woke up. I got busy on my social studies degree and graduated and got my career going. I actually found out later that the school I went to was a very strong academic school and that helped me when I started applying for teaching jobs but it was baseball that got me there and the education got me through there.

Also, you got to factor in if the kid is ready for a bigger stage and sometimes they aren't. There was a guy I went to college with who grew up about half an hour from the college we went to. Now he was an awesome basketball player and led his team to the state tournament two years in a row, player of the year in KY (I think) and got a scholarship to the University of Kentucky (it was about two and half hours from where he grew up). His freshman year he got significant playing time and was doing great and to add to the story his grades were outstanding. It seemed like the perfect story - great athlete, great grades and wide open future.

His sophomore year he was at our small NAIA school that was half an hour from his home. He wasn't ready for the big spotlight and he was miserable. He loved school and basketball but the spotlight at playing in an SEC school was something he didn't want to be in. He came to our NAIA school and had a great basketball career, got a great education and is still there working for a bank as one of the big whigs. But the most important thing about that story is he was happy in that small school. I know that because he and I talked about it once. He said he knew people were criticizing him for giving up what he had at UK but he had to do what made him happy.

Not every intelligent kid is ready for Harvard. Finding that right fit isn't always very easy to do. Sometimes you have to go to a few places to find that place that works for you.

As for what Coach May said

quote:

It only means that I know baseball is much more important to some than some want to admit on this site.

He's right and trust me - there is nothing wrong with making baseball a huge priority because when it's all said and done you probably have a college degree. Nothing wrong with using baseball to get to college as long as you end up with a degree.

quote:

You can get a great education in college its up to you. Or you can not and that is up to you as well.

quote:

The idea that your son has to attend this U or that U to get a great college education I dont buy.

I agree completely with Coach May. I have done just fine with my degrees from "party school" UGA. When I got my MS, my earning potential went up $15,000 per year. When I worked those glorious 9 months at Emory University, that really added heft to my resume and my ability to be hired. The way things have worked out in my career, the undergrad degree wasn't so important, as long as I had it.

2B got letters on Sept 1 from two schools - the third largest public university in the US, and the 3rd ranked academic public university in the US. (He is ranked 7th in his class). One university is huge and close, with a baseball program that is rebuilding; one is far away and much more prestigious, with a baseball team that was at Omaha last year. Both have majors that he is interested in. If they remain interested, it will be up to him to choose one of those, or another that we haven't yet heard from (or heard of). I want him to get a good education, play baseball, and be happy with his choices. I think baseball will open his mind to schools and programs that he might not otherwise consider. Baseball will be a huge part of his decision, because baseball is a huge part of who he is.

Wherever he ends up, just like anything else, he'll get out of his education what he puts into it.

Coach May - that was a fine post!

This topic comes up all the time here and it always generates lots of passionate discussion on both sides of the issue. One of the things I like about this topic is that everyone is right! These are deeply personal decisions that are only relavant in the context of each family situation imho.

Couple of assumptions here that seem worthwhile discussing...

1) Baseball is not that important...
Ok, then music, art, dance, movies and other forms of entertainment are not that important either. Your kid comes to you and says he dreams of being a great musician someday... Do you advise him to pick a school that he would be happy at if music were no longer involved OR do you advise him to go to the best music school possible? Perhaps Mn-Mom can comment on this as one of her sons has chosen a baseball path and another a music path.

2) The odds of succeeding in baseball are very low so it is better to hedge your bets with a solid education in another career.... Ok, but I can assure you that if you do not take baseball very seriously, your odds of success in baseball are zero. The second part of this assumption is that having a job in baseball (other than the big leagues) somehow makes you a second class citizen. What if a baseball career is truly someone's calling - does it matter if they make as much money as they could have otherwise?

3) Education is a one bite at the apple proposition.... In other words, if I don't get into the best now, I am precluded from doing so in the future. Nothing could be further from the truth imho. Baseball on the other hand is basically a one bite at the apple proposition however. In many cases, you cannot go back and correct a bad baseball decision.