Good news - he got back from the doctor and he said it was not the ligament. It is in the bicep close to the ligament.
My guy said he twisted and turned his arm every which way imaginable. His mom verified that he gave it a good exam in different twists and turns.
The doctor gave him exercises to do, he can lightly toss and play a position this weekend. If things go well he can start back pitching next week.
My plan is to make him do the exercises religiously. He is going to toss tomorrow. I told him any discomfort and he shuts it down.
He will start to stretch it out to long tossing next week on Tuesday.
We are going to basically restart his preseason pitching program. We start them at around 30 pitches for a week every other day, then jump to 45 for a week every other day, then jump to 60 a week every other day and then once games start we cap their first couple of starts around 70 - 80. By their third start we should have them around 100 max. After that we get them out.
Right now he should be on pace for 60 - 70 for a game but we are just starting him over and have him go 30 for a week.
All our guys know (or are told) any pain they shut it down and we talk.
I got to admit this is my first major injury with an elbow. I have had some minor shoulder injuries but nothing that could have been this serious.
Thank you everyone for your advice, hints, tips and well wishes. He is a great kid and has a great future. I would really hate to see such a future ended this early (he is a sophomore). Of course I would be this worried even if this was a kid who I know would never pitch past freshman level.
When life hands you gators - make Gatorade
Posts: 1228 | Location: Kentucky but soon to be North Carolina | Registered: May 12, 2006
Originally posted by coach2709: Good news - he got back from the doctor and he said it was not the ligament. It is in the bicep close to the ligament.
My guy said he twisted and turned his arm every which way imaginable. His mom verified that he gave it a good exam in different twists and turns.
The doctor gave him exercises to do, he can lightly toss and play a position this weekend. If things go well he can start back pitching next week.
My plan is to make him do the exercises religiously. He is going to toss tomorrow. I told him any discomfort and he shuts it down.
He will start to stretch it out to long tossing next week on Tuesday.
We are going to basically restart his preseason pitching program. We start them at around 30 pitches for a week every other day, then jump to 45 for a week every other day, then jump to 60 a week every other day and then once games start we cap their first couple of starts around 70 - 80. By their third start we should have them around 100 max. After that we get them out.
Right now he should be on pace for 60 - 70 for a game but we are just starting him over and have him go 30 for a week.
All our guys know (or are told) any pain they shut it down and we talk.
I got to admit this is my first major injury with an elbow. I have had some minor shoulder injuries but nothing that could have been this serious.
Thank you everyone for your advice, hints, tips and well wishes. He is a great kid and has a great future. I would really hate to see such a future ended this early (he is a sophomore). Of course I would be this worried even if this was a kid who I know would never pitch past freshman level.
Great news! Glad to hear. It was comforting to know that you were able to get a friend of a friend to look at it. The ligament is always a scary thing. The ucl (or mcl as some call it) is very touchy but incredibely durable. It attaches to both bones (upper and lower) and therefore is very important but it really takes a bunch of overuse and whipping, twisting and snapping to screw it up bad. it will sustain micro-tears and larger tears and heal on its own. if it gets too swelled up it gets vulerable to larger tears. Thus, icing and NSAIDS really do help and are not just a pacifier or myth (something to keep in mind going forward).
Hope this helps and this is really great news. Tell him some of us were really pulling for him through this situation and that we wish him well through the recovery period and we will be eager to hear some success stories soon!
Posts: 358 | Location: Michigan | Registered: September 02, 2007
Originally posted by coach2709: Good news - he got back from the doctor
This is good news!
quote:
I got to admit this is my first major injury with an elbow.
And you handled it very well. I wish my son's coach and the trainer were as conscientious as you. Hopefully, you won't have any other injuries. Good luck to your team this season.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Every day is "Anything Can Happen Day!"
Posts: 1841 | Location: Cook County | Registered: June 07, 2005
That's good news. I have a kid who does not hurt when he throws but has pain/ache in the tendon right in the crook of the elbow at the bottom of the bicep.Its not on the inside where ucl is and he was MRIed a year ago no tears, Any ideas or experience with this. Again he says no pain on the actual throw but afterward.
Posts: 46 | Location: chico ca | Registered: February 18, 2006
Originally posted by scissorbill: That's good news. I have a kid who does not hurt when he throws but has pain/ache in the tendon right in the crook of the elbow at the bottom of the bicep.Its not on the inside where ucl is and he was MRIed a year ago no tears, Any ideas or experience with this. Again he says no pain on the actual throw but afterward.
you say "does not hurt when he throws but has pain"
When does this pain occur? Does it occur after pitching? Does it occur after normal throwing in practice (non-pitching)? You said "afterward" ...is this right after each throw or collectively after the entire practice/game/or pitching session?
There is a radial tendon about where you are talking about. The one that runs tranverse called the anular tendon of radius . The band that would generally be affected by elbow pain during throwing would be the UCL, where there is a Posterior band, an Intermediate band, and an Anterior band. There is a slight (very slight) possibility he could be experiencing biceps tendon pain or strain (this is the tendon that connects the bicep muscle to the upper forearm bone (radius) right in front (anterior) of the anular tendon of radius. Elbow pain in pitchers or baseball players is usually on the medial side of the elbow right by the medial epicondyle (inner bone sticking out). Tennis elbow and injuries to the forearm muscle in racquet ball will be generally on the outside or lateral side of the elbow close to the epicondyle on outside (bone sticking out on outside). This is NOT always the case and elbows are so very tricky that they need to be examined by valgus stress test and other complicated examination movement by a qualified doctor specializing in upper extremity orthopaedic medicine.
Posts: 358 | Location: Michigan | Registered: September 02, 2007
It is after he throws not on the acceleration phase of the throw.It is right in the tendon on the bottom of the bicep right where your elbow bends.I don't know what to tell him other than stretching really well,ice rest etc.He has had this ongoing for several years. He has the best arm on the team and this is problematic and frustrating to him as well.AS I stated he has had the mri's with contrast and the ortho docs don't see any tears,just said tendonitsis,but what can be done to help him? Thanks for the input.
Posts: 46 | Location: chico ca | Registered: February 18, 2006
Originally posted by scissorbill: It is after he throws not on the acceleration phase of the throw.It is right in the tendon on the bottom of the bicep right where your elbow bends.I don't know what to tell him other than stretching really well,ice rest etc.He has had this ongoing for several years. He has the best arm on the team and this is problematic and frustrating to him as well.AS I stated he has had the mri's with contrast and the ortho docs don't see any tears,just said tendonitsis,but what can be done to help him? Thanks for the input.
"Racab" is partially correct. If they diagnosed that as tendonitis, full rest is required for full healing. However, I want you to give me the LONGEST period of time he has NOT thrown a baseball in the last year. For example, has he had a stretch where he was away from basbeall completely for 1 week, 2 weeks, 3 weeks, 1 month, 2 months, etc.?? (that means NOT throwing at all & please be honest)
Once you answer that, we will go on to the next question.
Posts: 358 | Location: Michigan | Registered: September 02, 2007
He actually took several months off,just basketball since October. He was in a throwing conditionig program starting in early Feb. Just started to bother again after working up to 80% or so effort. Not really sure how to attack this. Do you think massaging of this tendon or something similar might work, I just don't know. It does get better with rest but always returns. Any help is appreciated.
Posts: 46 | Location: chico ca | Registered: February 18, 2006
Sir, I know how frustrating this is both for you son and for you. My son torn is UCL and we went to Birmingham for the surgery. If I lived in California, I'd make sure that one of the top ortho's like Yocum or those that work with the top collegiate baseball programs in you state at least view these MRI's. If you have insurance then know that it's the same nickel to see the very best as it is to see someone less experienced. JMO.
Originally posted by scissorbill: He actually took several months off,just basketball since October. He was in a throwing conditionig program starting in early Feb. Just started to bother again after working up to 80% or so effort. Not really sure how to attack this. Do you think massaging of this tendon or something similar might work, I just don't know. It does get better with rest but always returns. Any help is appreciated.
Since the pain is not in the traditional "bad" spot for elbows, I don't think you need to take your MRI's to the next level. whom ever looked at the MRI's the first time surely knew where the pain location came from. tendonitis takes a good while to completely go away and sometimes it lingers (reference Michael Jordan's knee -- one entire year). It's a tricky thing but the location of the pain could be the transverse or biceps tendon. If you eventually become 100% confident what this is and it is NOT the UCL or other important elbow ligaments, perhaps some localized treatment for that area becomes appropriate.
Originally posted by coach2709: Good news - he got back from the doctor
This is good news!
quote:
I got to admit this is my first major injury with an elbow.
And you handled it very well. I wish my son's coach and the trainer were as conscientious as you. Hopefully, you won't have any other injuries. Good luck to your team this season.
I second this opinion
Posts: 226 | Location: SoSoCAL | Registered: October 22, 2007
Originally posted by scissorbill: I would say looking at switchhitter's anatomy chart it is in the biceps tendon. What can be done?
It is unlikely that the below is at issue. But I believe there could be a slight tear or microtears that are not healing because of a currretly active arm. Have you tried no-use, ice, and NSAIDS for a period of one week with no throwing?
What are the symptoms of distal biceps tendon rupture? Distal biceps tendon rupture is characterized by sudden pain over the front of the elbow after a forceful effort against a flexed elbow.
Usually the patient will hear a snap and have pain where the tendon rupture occurs. Swelling and bruising around the elbow are also common symptoms of distal biceps tendon rupture. What is the treatment of distal biceps tendon rupture? Most patients will experience benefit if the biceps tendon is repaired surgically. If the tear is incomplete, or if the patient is very low-demand (not active), then surgery may not be needed. However, most patients who want more normal use of their arm will benefit from surgery to repair the ruptured tendon to the bone.
Posts: 358 | Location: Michigan | Registered: September 02, 2007
If the player is still having pain he had better see another doctor and he should not be throwing if the pain is persisting, he could be doing more damage
Folks nothing against the switchitter but he says nothing about being a doctor much less a sports doc---I would be careful with any medical advice given on this site--too many people think they know more than they actually do
TRhit
Posts: 19140 | Location: Manchester, CT USA | Registered: December 26, 2002
Originally posted by TRhit: If the player is still having pain he had better see another doctor and he should not be throwing if the pain is persisting, he could be doing more damage
Folks nothing against the switchitter but he says nothing about being a doctor much less a sports doc---I would be careful with any medical advice given on this site--too many people think they know more than they actually do
i was very careful to say i was not in earlier posts. That goes without saying. Doing a little research just gives them more info to chew on. Besides, they already had an MRI.
Posts: 358 | Location: Michigan | Registered: September 02, 2007
Originally posted by scissorbill: It is after he throws not on the acceleration phase of the throw.It is right in the tendon on the bottom of the bicep right where your elbow bends.I don't know what to tell him other than stretching really well,ice rest etc.He has had this ongoing for several years. He has the best arm on the team and this is problematic and frustrating to him as well.AS I stated he has had the mri's with contrast and the ortho docs don't see any tears,just said tendonitsis,but what can be done to help him? Thanks for the input.
Chronic tendinitous can cause more issues later on than we realize and should never be overlooked. If not treated properly more problems may develop later on OR there may be a problem causing the tendinitous which could be mechanical in nature. My son has had two bouts with tendinitous, both times shut down completely, rehab with a trainer and then rehab innings, after determining there was nothing else seriously wrong. Both times he missed two seasons, one this fall in HS year and another this past summer his first pro season. One cause was throwing a knuckleball (we didn;t know), the other not really sure other than a long season and some bad habits hopefully addressed and corrected with adjustments on mechanics. Taking anti inflamatories and ice and back on the mound is a quick fix. Any discomfort anytime you throw a ball other than being sore after a very long season should be carefully diagnosed by a doctor. Tendinitous should be considered serious and treated accordingly with PT, rest and rehab innings.
JMO.
Posts: 10723 | Location: South Florida | Registered: July 28, 2003
OK, enough already. You don't need opinions from amateur docs, you need one from a real doc.
Scissorbill, I didn't look to see where you live until now, but now notice that you're in Chico. Give me a call and I'll put you in touch with THE DOC who you should probably go see. He's in San Francisco, and is pretty widely regarded as one of the top orthopaedic surgeons, from a baseball perspective, in northern CA. He did Tommy John surgery on my son (it went great), and I've referred probably ten other players down to him, and all have had good experiences with him. More to the point, not only is he the orthopaedic surgeon for USF, Santa Clara and several other colleges, he's the San Francisco Giants team surgeon for all of their clubs. His name is Kenneth Akizuki, and you won't find a better doc to look at your kid's elbow. He's also a hell of a nice guy, very easy to talk to. 415-563-2600, talk to Anne in his office to schedule an appointment.
If you'd like to talk about it more, just PM me and I'll gladly talk with you all you'd like about this. None of us on here are doctors, and this kid should be seen by a qualified doc to figure out what's going on and how best to treat it. You now know how to get in touch with the best out this way.
By the way, from your screenname, I take it you shoot spoonies??? Really???
