Ok, we understand that if there are two guys that throw 1.8, the guy that is more accurate is going to be better at throwing out runners given all other variables the same. The point PG is getting at I believe is that to be considered a good throwing catcher or to have a CHANCE at throwing out runners, the pop time is very important.

I was a shortstop and when I was in high school I threw 90+ across the diamond, but I didn't have a whole lot of accuracy. However, because I threw so hard, scouts and colleges took notice and I was drafted and went to a major D-1 as a result of my arm. Who do you think would stand out at a showcase, given both shortstops have good hands and feet, a player who throws 80 accurately, or the person who is throwing 92 and is wild? I can tell you the kid who is throwing 92 will be noticed by EVERYONE.

PG is correct to say being able to get the ball where it is going in time is very important. Accuracy will most likely come; as wild as I was when I was younger, I was very accurate throwing hard in college. This is the same for catchers..if you throw a 1.8, you can work on your accuracy, but very few catchers can go from a 2.05 to a 1.8 in college.

The key is throwing the baserunner and the hitter out---for an infielder a quick release can overcome lack of RADAR VELOCITY---the key is outs

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
The key is throwing the baserunner and the hitter out---for an infielder a quick release can overcome lack of RADAR VELOCITY---the key is outs

I do not disagree, but the radar velocity will get you noticed and give you more opportunities. A strong arm for a shortstop is crucial...there are very few David Ecksteins in the world.

DoD,

Believe it or not all scouts understand that 1.8 on the 1B side of the bag is better than 1.8 three feet wide of the bag. Believe it or not, we even understand the importance of accuracy.

Maybe this will clear it up...

1.8 that is anywhere that can be caught and a tag put down will always be better than a 2.3 right on the money. The quicker the pop time the "less" accurate a catcher needs to be.

Regarding the key being whether you throw the runner out or not. That is true, but a poor catcher with a poor pop time can throw out a poor runner! That is good, he threw out the runner, but he will not get any interest from scouts or college coaches. They have the stop watch on him! The quick guys will run him to death.

I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here. This is just the way things are. The idea is to have the ability to throw out the quick guys at the highest possible level. If the runner is 3.3 to 2B and the pitcher is an amazing 1.2 to the plate. It takes 2.00 and "accurate" to even have a chance. If a catcher can't do that, nothing else matters in that case. The slow guys seldom steal bases at the highest levels.

I'm not discounting tag time, but if we are talking tag times, some middle infielders are better at that than others. Everyone notices accuracy on throws. Hard to miss that if you're watching.

Yes, it is teamwork, it takes the pitcher and the tag along with the catcher. However, it has to be a catcher who is capable of getting it there (that means accurately) in time.

I've been following this thread for a while now and wish to add some commentary in support of what PG is saying. Yeah, all these things matter, but when you're evaluating positions, you look at different things. For a pitcher, you measure his velocity of his fastball, as well as secondary pitches. You also look at command, ability to change speeds, pitchability. You might note his time to home from the stretch, but that is only a supplemental note, if mentioned at all. For an infielder, you're going to note how he fields, moves to his left and right. How he throws, can he make the throw from the hole or behind 2nd, that kind of stuff. NOBODY is going to measure or care how he tags runners. It is way down on the list of things to worry about, compared to the other aspects of playing either position.

For a catcher, its a bit different. Throwing out runners is one of his primary responsibilities. Therefore, pop time is an essential measurement of a catcher's ability.

If you're selecting a pitcher based on his time to home, you don't know what you're supposed to be evaluating. In the big picture, that doesn't amount to a pimple on Boog Powell's butt!

quote:

Originally posted by 06catcherdad:
In the big picture, that doesn't amount to a pimple on Boog Powell's butt!

I do know that I won't be pondering on that big picture today or tommorrow!

wHO remembers the Boog vs Hondo days!
(like it was yesterday!)

Boog, 1965-71 180 homers 649 rbi, All Star,'68-'71
Hondo, 1965-71 237 homers 650 rbi, All Star,'68-'71

Boog pw = 6-4, 240.
Hondo pw = 6-7, 255.

Hondo arrived from LAD in '65, (being a NL ROY in LA) and led the AL in taters in '68 & '70 (with 44)and a career high 48 bombs in '69 (and at long ball unfriendly DC Stadium).

Boog played with the O's from '61-'74, with a stint at CLE (F Robinson saved him), & finished
in '77 with LAD.

Today, hanging out Camden Yards (small crowds this year), at Boog's Barb-B-Que is a treat for me when going to the new "old" park. Of course the lines with attendance down are not as long this year.
When in town, Boog's popularity with the loyal 60's fans remains undiminished. Yet ardent fans who watched the most successful team of 1958-85 continue a downward spiral that will probably last for 25+ years.

Of course Hondo looks great, continues to maintain his stroke, and at 71+, can handle a fungo while roving the minor leagues with NYY.

cheers