Yea I can get the ball down in a close 2.3 but my pitchers rarely hold the runner on kids are 3/4 the way down the line before I get the pitch. I have 1 throwout on a leadoff batter that came just last week. Can you cant tell a true catcher without a good pitcher imo. Kids get to big of jumps on HS pitching.

But 2 third I have about 10 or so throwouts.

In high school I had trouble throwing people out even my junior and senior years due to pitchers having slow release times. As a junior I was between 1.81 and 1.98 in showcase/practice settings and around 1.9 to 2.0 in game settings. In significantly less innings as a freshman in college, I have thrown out almost as many this year than the last two years combined due to my pitchers having better release times.
Also, no matter what your pop time is, if you can't hit a target, you won't throw anybody out. Quick feet, quick transfer, anticipation, and arm strength all play a huge role in pop time. Our starting catcher has been clocked as high as 93 mph and is throwing out less than 20% of runners because he relies too much on his arm and not enough on his transfer and footwork.
To 3B, I've heard that 1.6 is the standard there. I'm not sure where I heard that or if it's accurate, but that's just what I've heard.

You better learn how to hit the ball well and worry about your pop times second. Anyone who tells you these days that a catcher must have defense first to get drafted or go to college is mislead. Those days are gone. Maybe after you get drafted, defense becomes a little more important

Catchers that get drafted get drafted because they are good catchers but great hitters. Great catchers that are avg hitters go to college. The last two guys made great points. You steal on the pitcher not the catcher. Pitchers that do not hold runners and are slow to the plate just about eliminate a catchers chances of throwing out runners. Ive seen guys thrown out on 2.4's and I have seen 2.0 throws that were not even close. What kind of jump a kid gets depends on how the pitchers are holding the runners and the jump determines the stolen base.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
The key is not the pop time or the radar gun readings--- the key is does the catcher throw out the runners-- it takes more than just the catcher--it takes the pitcher holding the runner on properly; it takes the pitcher throwing a good pitch for the catcher to handle when the runner goes; it takes the catcher having the right merchanics and anticipation when the runner goes.

Pop times and radar gun readings make great fodder for discussion on a website but they do not necessarily throw runners out

TRhit

Genius at work.

I'm an '06 graduate and I recently had a State Games tryout. I was timed at 1.89-1.94. If you are looking to lower your times, work on your footwork.

One thing to differentiate is game pop time to showoff pop time.

If you can throw 2.1 or better in a game, staying down long enough to give the umpire a chance to call a strike, you can play in college. I saw quite a few D-I catchers this season who couldn't do that.

No batter, no umpire, just you against the watch, if you progress 2.3, 2.2, 2.1, 2.0 through the high school years, you'll be just fine.

I have a son in his jun. year of high school. He played third last year and has caught for his summer teams. last Jan. in fort myers he was clocked at 1.89. His coach sent his catching stats to me this week and they are 130 po. 4 errors. 10 thrown out and a 96.somthing feilding persentage. What does his talent level sound like to you guys? thanks for your time

chamos,
Welcome to the high school baseball web. Sounds as if your son has a lot of talent. A 1.89 sec is a VERY good pop time. With his obvious strong arm I'm surprised the high school coach hasn't put him on the mound. Keep us posted.
Fungo

As the father of a MI, don't forget about the guy putting down the tag. When the catcher doesn't have to worry about being perfect, the pop times go up in games and the catchers look good.

What about the centerfielder who backs up the middle infielder and also the pitcher and first baseman who has to hold the runner on? All are supporting cast of the catcher in picking off the runner. I don't believe the catcher "thinks" about his teammate's talent or lack of talent in this situation, his job is to catch and throw. While we all know picking off the runner takes more than a strong accurate throw from the catcher, we have to give credit where credit is due. The measured "pop time" is the result of the catcher's actions.
Fungo

Dave,

Poorly written. Allow me to rewrite and I will send to your web site.

I am a big believer in first improving a young catchers ability to:
- receiving the baseball
- splitting
- transitioning

I have seen a young catcher's arm strength take care of itself (and improve over time).

I was trying to discuss what can be done to improve a catcher pop times, and to do that discuss:
- arm strength vs the above.

- IMHO, after several years of discussions, observations, and digital cameras, a catcher's split times are the area where TT&P improves pop times, thus yielding the most improvement (i.e. 20%). Thus pop times can be reduced from 2.3 sec (nominal 16 y/o) to (in rare cases 20%) 1.84 sec with Tactics, Techniques & Procedures.

I wish I had a catcher (at 16 y/o) throwing 87
(and since dreaming this morning, how about a left handed hitting catcher.....(better yet, equally well on both sides of plate!).

emme for details

cheers
Bear

Thanks for double check.

quote:

Originally posted by Bear:
After several years of discussion, observation, and digital cameras, a catcher's split times are the area where pop times can improve the most.

Yes, a catcher's increasing arm strength helps,
yet may only account for about 20%. (ie. 0.4 seconds for ball in flight).
The other 80% primarily includes:
- receiving the baseball
- splitting
- transitioning
- releasing

emme for details

Bear, I have always liked your numbers but this one I need you to double check.

Are you saying that on a throw to 2nd only 4/10's of a second is taken up by the in-flight time?

Can't make that number work since it takes a throw of 87MPH to cover the 127ft in one full second. An in-flight time of 4/10's is not possible....I think?

Am I missing something here??

quote:

Originally posted by NY-CATCHER:
............. Can you cant tell a true catcher without a good pitcher imo. Kids get to big of jumps on HS pitching.

A truely terrible pitcher will show how good a catcher you really are, IMO, as you'll get to block a lot of pitches, make throws to bases and show the coach you know how to deal with a pitcher in trouble

Coaches and people who know the game can tell if a guy can catch or not no matter how poorly the pitcher holds a runner on. You shouldn't be concerned about the people who can't separate the catchers actions from those of the pitcher as they probebely aren't making the lineup.

Actually, Catching Coach, it takes well over 87 MPH to travel the 127 feet in one second. I think you are forgetting the decelleration of the ball in flight, which is about 1 MPH or every 10 feet.

An 87 MPH throw gets there in 1.07 seconds. It takes a 94 mph muzzle velocity to get to second base in 1.0 seconds.

Well my son is a catcher, and he is interested in improving his throw down to second / pop times.


So just for the heck of it I started recording pop times on some of the college and MLB games I have been watching.

The best pop time so far in a game situation was 1.9 seconds, I have a DVR and run it back just to get a few times just to see if I am correct. Surprisingly most of the pop time in the MLB and college are around 2sec to 2.2seconds.

The best pop time of 1.9 seconds was a perfect pitch and a perfect thrown that got the guy out with a glove tag while the guy was sliding head first. I mean he was out by a mile/few feet.

Ok, my dilemma is you can work all you want to on arm strength, foot work but what I see as the most important thing in just the catchers responsibility when in comes to pop time is accuracy. You can have the best pop time but if you cannot throw down to second with accuracy you are doing nothing but fooling yourself when in comes to good pop time.

Am I missing something here when it comes to just Pop time to second? Is it really that important when I am timing the pros and college at around 2 seconds? With differant pitchs involed here?

Since there is such a range of grow/maturity in HS ball i have seen everything from 2.3 - 3.1 for a young freshemen who now should be throwing in the 2.7 range. at this age it depends on a lot of differnt things. Skills, size/maturity and disire to work on foot work and proper throw down posture to help save time to be more acuurate

Love always that #2 position,

drill
__________________

I was reading this thread and thought: "Coach May has three sons!"

I sure wish I had another son mom. I sure would love to do it all over again with another one. I read this thread again and couldnt help but notice the steady improvement in my sons times over the last four years. Mainly due to him getting quicker and better mechanics behind the plate. And of course every year his arm strength has improved. The biggest thing is probaly his ability to put himself in a good throwing posistion by the way he receives the baseball. Alot of it is just experience and not rushing. He used to go get the baseball a bit when he heard runner or saw the runner going. He learned to let the ball get to him and catch it deep and not rush. But the bottom line is its an ongoing process where you never get satisfied and always work to improve.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
Catchers that get drafted get drafted because they are good catchers but great hitters. Great catchers that are avg hitters go to college. The last two guys made great points. You steal on the pitcher not the catcher. Pitchers that do not hold runners and are slow to the plate just about eliminate a catchers chances of throwing out runners. Ive seen guys thrown out on 2.4's and I have seen 2.0 throws that were not even close. What kind of jump a kid gets depends on how the pitchers are holding the runners and the jump determines the stolen base.

I agree that average hitters go to college. However, the catchers that are truly great as far as calling a game/throwing runners, etc. are the ones that do well after college, even if they aren't necessarily a great hitter. Being able to have the pitchers trust is very important as you get up in levels....unless of course you can just mash.