OK - I realize that this site is dedicated to HS baseball but ...I thought maybe some of your High Schoolers or parents may have some offering to a dad whose son (13 years old) wants to try out for his middle school team. I am talking about 7th and 8th grade level play. A step below the JV stuff.

He has mainly been a rec league player with volunteer coaches and such. Has played each year beginning around 5 or 6 years old.

Should he try or wait til HS?
Should he stay with the recs?
Should he stay in Fall baseball?

These are the kind of questions running thru dad's head! I neither want to encourage or discourage a certain course but hopefully nuture his choices and provide the dollars and time that he needs.

My ears are open!

I have just started getting him some formal training at a local sports training facility. Responding real good so far.

Dad

I see this is your first post so --- Welcome to the HS Baseball web. This site is NOT dedicated to HS baseball it is dedicated to baseball and everything associated with baseball which could include politics and religion --- at times.

Your son should play baseball at the level where he

#1. Can play
#2. Is challenged
#3. Has fun
#4. Can improve

There are a vast array of names and labels associated with baseball teams and these labels can be misleading. Let me make two suggestions. Evaluate your son's baseball talent and evauluate the talent level of the different teams and pair the two up as best you can.

Good Luck,
Fungo

School ball > rec. In school ball you have coaches who don't know the background of any of the players, and just see them how they are. In rec I always made the all-star teams, but the coaches kids/ friends always played over me, and I was given the short stick. In school, none of the coaches kids play, so the better player will play. I made the team in 6th gr (my mid school was 6-8), while all the kids who played over me because of their dads got cut. That was the sweetest moment when the list was up, and my name was up, but none of theirs was. Also, since I was grade skipped I was playing v.s. kids 3-4 years older than me, so it was also a good learning experience.

Jaysdad,
Welcome to the HSBBW. By the way there is a forum for pre high school players. If you browse through you may find some posts that may help you with your middle school player.
Of course your son should try out for his middle school team. Why not?
I am a firm beleiver that at 13 and 14, young players should be having fun, that is what it's all about, once you take the fun away, they lose interest. Make sure in whatever he dies he is having fun.

As far as sports training, not sure what that might include? Be careful, young growing bodies should only have specific training, make sure that you have done your homework on what training a 13-14 baseball player needs.

Your son should play anywhere and as often as he enjoys playing the game other than giving his arm an off season rest for two or three months. To progress he should play at the highest level he can handle (and you can afford). This is also a time to be patient with his game. He'll grow and physically change a lot in the next two or three years.

Thanks to all of you!!

I do see the pre-high area now. Maybe that would be a better place for me to hang out now? I will certainly go take a look at what is in the threads.

Our experience with rec ball is that you never had the same coach over the 5 or 6 years he played. And yes, they almost always had a son playing and fairness wasn't always at the top of the list. The teaching skills varied considerby too! I kept a very close eye on my sons happiness level and played down most of his complaining. I did not want my son coming to me with all his problems so I did not go to the coaches and complain. I made up for it by spending more one on one time with him at the practive fields. My son was not always the best on the teams but had the eagerness and skill levels to at least been given more opportunities. He has not lost any desire to play though and interest level in the game is as good as it always has been.

He is in the 12-15 age bracket now and that is one of the reasons I am looking for advice and such on how and where to go from here. I think we are finished with rec ball unless we are forced back there. I am looking at the formal training as a way to keep going with the skills he already has. I will be working primarily with the hitting and fielding. He likes to catch and wants to pitch but I have no plans of pursuing that area at this juncture.

How do you spot a pitcher-to-be? My son has a very strong arm. However, I see him more as an outfielder throwing the long ball into to home plate than I do as a pitcher who is great at control. Does this make any sense? Why spend money and precious time (his and mine) developing a skill that is probably not there.

He has all the catching equipment and has spent time behind the plate. He loves playing that position because of the involvement in the game. I think this is a special position too and one more likely suited for him. I have started seeing camps set up for just catching. Used to be only pitching was singled out but maybe not any longer?

I think you have the idea now as to what I am up against. If my son is to have a "career" as a ball player, sooner or later you must switch over to school ball and now (spring 09) might be the time to try. He would be 13 and his first tryout at school ball. He is in 7th grade and would be competing with both 7th and 8th graders for a spot on the middle school team.

OK - I have rambled enough. I will shut up and let you all talk a while! Thanks again for all past and future poster to my comments! I will read them enthusiasticly and take all info I get from them.

My son and I LOVE baseball!! One promise I must deliver on next spring is a HDTV. LOL

Good Night.

quote:

Originally posted by jaysdad:

If my son is to have a "career" as a ball player, sooner or later you must switch over to school ball and now (spring 09) might be the time to try.

Best is to plan for the next step, which would be making the middle school team. Chances might be that your son will have a career in anything else but baseball, you can put that thought off until later. Then the next step is making the JV team in HS, then varsity, then perhaps college ball. Along the way, working hard to be good enough to play on a good travel team in HS.

At your sons age, in my opinion, a player should not be set to one position. He should be able to experience all positions, this is how they learn the game. At 13, mine was pitching, catching, IF and OF and hitting. He doesn't need lessons at this time.

My suggestion is to just relax, let your son have fun, let him find the position he is most comfortable with, or where his strengths lie. His position will someday depend on his arm strength, his speed, or his hitting and leadership skills. This will become evident as his body grows and matures. Definetly work on the hitting and fielding skills.

I am not sure that I would give up the rec ball as yet, he may not make his middle school team, then he would not be playing, which is what they need to do at 13.

You have three great schools in South Carolina that have great camps, USC, Coastal Carolina and Clemson, make sure that he gets to one of them (or all 3) at some time in the future. There are some folks here who have taken their kids to those camps year after year and were taught some great skills. Take advantage of what you have close by.

Jaysdad,

Welcome to the HS Baseball Web!

No problem about posting your question in the General forum. I have linked it to the Pre-High School forum so that members who visit there most often will also notice it and help you with your questions.

When you asked, "Should he try or wait til HS?", were you thinking that because he hasn't had top-level coaching, maybe he should get the private lessons you mentioned and wait a year to try out?

I'm not sure if that's what you were asking, but if so, I agree that he should try out for the more competitive level now, if he is interested. Even if he "fails" by not making the team, he will have "won" by learning something from the tryout. Next year he will be more comfortable with the tryout format, having gone through it once, and he can also get a better idea of what he should work on.

Best wishes, and let us know how things go!

Julie

quote:

At your sons age, in my opinion, a player should not be set to one position. He should be able to experience all positions, this is how they learn the game. At 13, mine was pitching, catching, IF and OF and hitting. He doesn't need lessons at this time.

While I do agree that he shouldn't be "locked in" at one position at this age, I think most kids start lessons prior to 13. I started getting lessons for my son at age 9. The two most common lessons are pitching and hitting.

My son tried out in 7th grade, but only a few 7th graders make the MS team, he did not. But the coaches did remember him, and he tried out in 8th grade and made the team! Started out not getting alot of playing time-made it as SS but not a "starter". His main position is actually CF. They put him in CF one day and he made some awesome catches out there and finally got there attention. He had a couple game winning hits in 8th grade and ended up having a good season even though he didn't play much the first 5-6 games, so it was tough to show the coaches he deserved to be there. He hung in there though, didn't complain and was very happy to get the playing time he did!
He's now 14 and a freshman and tried out for the HS "fall ball" team and was one of the only few freshman to make the team. A couple of those kids that made the team in 7th when he didn't, did not make this fall ball team! He just finished playing with JV and Varsity players and has a good chance to make the JV team this spring as a freshman!

So I guess my answer is yes, let him try out. Even if he doesn't make it, don't worry about it! The coaches will probably remember him when he tries out in 8th grade. Good luck!

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:
While I do agree that he shouldn't be "locked in" at one position at this age, I think most kids start lessons prior to 13. I started getting lessons for my son at age 9. The two most common lessons are pitching and hitting.

Fungo,
It was mentioned he is working on hitting and fielding, I thought that might be enough for right now, maybe some pitching lessons later if he shows an interest ability.

TPM, I THOUGHT you might be talking about "pitching only" lessons. Just to be safe I though I'd add my comment so your post wouldn't be construed as not getting ANY lessons at all at his age.

Jaysdad, Good questions. As a parent you have a huge challenge ahead of you. Just like me and most other parents we need to understand when to guide our sons and when to follow them. Like TPM's son my son has played just about every position on the field. Not only will your son's skills factor in as TPM says, the coach and the team also factors in as to what position he will play. You may WANT him to be an outfielder and that may very well be his best position but the coach may have other plans. Happens frequently. My son signed with his college as a catcher and caught as a freshman but the coach "asked" him to pitch his sophomore year ---then--- he was converted back to a catcher his junior year. During this span he also played first and third and DH'ed. Even after his pro career ended this year I'm still not sure what position he was best suited at ----- His next position will be an assistant HS coach next spring. We'll see how that one plays out.
Fungo

No problem Fungo, you and I speak the same language, thanks for the back up.

Also I want to clear up any misconception about my comment on the "career" in baseball. I was not sure what jaysdad was referring to. At this age it's just important on concentrating on being a kid, that includes doing just as well in the classroom as on the field and kind of work on one gaol at a time and work hard at trying to make teh junior high baseball team.

quote:

Originally posted by jaysdad:
He likes to catch and wants to pitch but I have no plans of pursuing that area at this juncture.

How do you spot a pitcher-to-be? My son has a very strong arm. However, I see him more as an outfielder throwing the long ball into to home plate than I do as a pitcher who is great at control. Does this make any sense? Why spend money and precious time (his and mine) developing a skill that is probably not there.

The physical requirements for a pitcher are pretty simple. He needs to have a strong arm. It's also helpful to have big hands, because that makes it easier to put spin on the ball, and get good movement.

Much more important is mental outlook and attitude. Kids that succeed at pitching like being at the center of action and want to be part of nearly every play. (Sounds similar to the description of a catcher, doesn't it?)

Pitchers also should be willing to develop a repeatable delivery. That's where control comes from. It's different than practicing hitting, in which there's instantaneous feedback, and a really well-struck ball is exhilarating. It takes a longer term point of view to practice pitching mechanics.

So actually, based on what you've written, I suspect that your son may have the capability to be a pitcher. I don't know any way to find out for sure except to try pitching. He's got part of the package now. He has yet to demonstrate that he wants the responsibility of being the most important player on the field, and that he enjoys that enough to put in the time practicing to get good control. But he needs to have the opportunity to pitch in order to find out.

I think you owe him that opportunity. Why? Because it may turn out to be his best chance to play baseball. It's been that way for my son.

You should start working on it now; 13 is not too young, and if he does have talent, it takes time to learn how to pitch effectively in actual games.

Let him do what he wants to do. If he wants to try out for the middle school team and play with the kids he goes to school with then let him do that. If he doesnt want to do that let him continue to play rec ball. I sure would not worry about what posistion he is going to play. Sooner or later that will all shake out. When he gets to hs the team will have certain needs. He will play where the team needs him the most. He will have plenty of time to develop. When he gets to hs he will have the make the decision how hard he wants to work at it. He will have to make the decision that all kids have to make. Just how important is this baseball stuff to me? Important enough to sacrifice some things others get to do? Important enough to give up some weekends in order to get that extra instruction or put in that extra work? The only person that can or should make those decisions is the player imo. Let him play and have some fun. He will come to you and let you know.

quote:

Originally posted by jaysdad:
Our experience with rec ball is that you never had the same coach over the 5 or 6 years he played. And yes, they almost always had a son playing and fairness wasn't always at the top of the list. The teaching skills varied considerbly too!

To this point it doesn't matter. Talent can't be held back.

quote:

Originally posted by jaysdad:
He is in the 12-15 age bracket now.

No. he's a thirteen year old. If you start comparing him to fifteen year olds both of you could end up disappointed. From 13U to 14U and 14U to 16U (son skipped 15U) summer ball and 18U fall ball, I watched the speed of the game and the challenges change rapidly. Take it one year at a time.

quote:

Originally posted by jaysdad:
I am looking at the formal training as a way to keep going with the skills he already has. I will be working primarily with the hitting and fielding.

He's not going to lose the skills he has. What is important is building on them. As the game gets faster he must improve.

quote:

Originally posted by jaysdad:
He likes to catch and wants to pitch but I have no plans of pursuing that area at this juncture.

Let's not forget whose game this is. It's your son's game. It's not your game. You don't make these kinds of decisions. It's your son's decision. Your job it to support the decisions.

quote:

Originally posted by jaysdad:
How do you spot a pitcher-to-be?

You'll see a kid who enjoys being on the mound. At thirteen you don't know what kind of arm he will have. You can only judge his arm relative to his age. At fifteen my son hit 14mph faster (82) than when he was in 13U (68). He was also nine inches taller.

quote:

Originally posted by jaysdad:
I see him more as an outfielder throwing the long ball into to home plate than I do as a pitcher who is great at control.

What does your son see. It's his game.

quote:

Originally posted by jaysdad:
I think you have the idea now as to what I am up against.

With all the "I's" rather than "my son wants" in your post I'm getting a better feel for what your son is up against.

quote:

Originally posted by jaysdad:
If my son is to have a "career" as a ball player, sooner or later you must switch over to school ball and now (spring 09) might be the time to try. He would be 13 and his first tryout at school ball. He is in 7th grade and would be competing with both 7th and 8th graders for a spot on the middle school team.

Your son won't have a career in baseball until he's being paid to play. Right now he's a kid who enjoys playing ball. That's all my oldest playing college ball is doing. That's all my youngest in high school is doing.

Your son should play the game because he enjoys it. He should attempt to improve every year because he wants to keep playing. He should keep playing until the game tells him (cut) he can't play anymore.

And you need to see it more as his game, not our game. You're a support mechanism. You've had your chance to play. Now it's his turn. Good luck.

My son threw near 90 as a junior in hs but detested pitching---he was a fine centerfielder and hitter and that was what he enjoyed


Let him be what he wants to be---take the "I's" out of the equation and let him be him

OK - I (oops) I mean point taken!

Thanks for all the good advice.

Here is the plan:

1- kick back and just relax. go watch a football game or something!
2- Take my son to some formal training this winter to only work on his hitting. (I already paid for 4 lessons so instead of asking for my money back I will let him work on the hitting)
3- Wait for tryouts in Feb 09 and let him tryout for his school team if he is still interested.
4- If he makes it, the coach is running the show.
4- If he doesn't make it he will play rec ball again if he so desires.
5- Check back with you all and let you know how things go in February.

I did not mean anything by "career" that is why I put it in brackets. Nor all the I's.

Later

Thanks again!

jaysdad its great to have you on this site. I am jealous of you because mine are all grown up and I wish I could go back through it all over again. I have to settle for coaching other peoples kids. There is nothing wrong with saying career. Not imo. I always believed in having a plan. My youngest from an early age showed he was a pretty talented player. But he also showed a tremendous drive and love for the game. I told him he needed a plan to succeed. It was all about getting better and doing what it took to get better. I never got caught up in where he was at and always told him its not where you are but where you are working to be.

No one will remember who was the best middle school player. In fact no one that matters will care. Its not how strong his arm is now but how strong his arm will be. IMO its important at putting the focus on having fun playing the game. And working hard to get better all the time. I judged each year on not what my sons batting average was or how many hr's he hit. But was his arm stronger than last year? Was he a better hitter than last year? Was he a better defender than last year? Was he more athletic? Was he a better player? I always believed that if you were constantly getting better you would be ok when it really mattered the most.

Good luck this coming season. Keep us informed how it goes.

jaysdad,

"I did not mean anything by "career" that is why I put it in brackets. Nor all the I's."

In this one mom's opinion, you didn't say anything wrong. You asked good questions and sound like a normal parent of a 7th grader. I'm glad you're here, asking questions!

The responses that commented on those things ("career" and "I's") hopefully were just thinking of how some parents do get a little ahead of themselves in projecting their 12- or 13-yr-old's success, and they were (I hope) just trying to offer a realistic perspective. I think perhaps kids need all of that - their own dreams, their parents' encouragement, and an occasional dose of reality.

There is one statement that caught my eye as seeming way off base though, and I want to apologize for it:

RJM said: "With all the "I's" rather than "my son wants" in your post I'm getting a better feel for what your son is up against."

What an unkind statement, and it doesn't seem to fit your situation at all. So jaysdad, I'm sorry that one of our members chose to make a judgment like that toward a new member! That's not an approach we encourage here, and I don't think you deserve that.

Julie