Liberty Univ beat Richmond, Sunday, 28-7. The SP for LU was given credit for the W, but only went 4 IP...
...I thought the rule was the SP had to throw 5 to get credit for a W. Can anyone clarify this for me? Here is the link to the box...
http://www.libertyflames.com/wwwadmin/globals/templates...s/stats/chs02185.htm

I agree with your interpretation of the rule.. 5 complete innings for the starter to win a 9 inning game.

The writer of the article has some problems with "CASE"

Liberty up 18-6 after 4. SP had lead & coach looks to have wanted to see other pitchers this early in the season. SP MAY also had high pitch count (7 Ks, but 9 hits) for this early in season. Liberty never relinquished the lead, so no other pitcher to be considered in the decision. Too big of a lead for a save situation. Some one has to be awarded the W.

Who would you have given it to?

4505 in attendance. Must be nice.

I would have given the W to John, the RP who pitched 3 scoreless...
...I emailed our SID (I work at LU) to find out the official rule. Logic dictates that the SP get the win...
...but MLB rules state it differently

quote:

WINNING AND LOSING PITCHER
10.19
(a) Credit the starting pitcher with a game won only if he has pitched at least five complete innings and his team not only is in the lead when he is replaced but remains in the lead the remainder of the game.
(b)The “must pitch five complete innings” rule in respect to the starting pitcher shall be in effect for all games of six or more innings. In a five-inning game, credit the starting pitcher with a game won if he has pitched at least four complete innings and his team not only is in the lead when he is replaced but remains in the lead the remainder of the game.
(c)When the starting pitcher cannot be credited with the victory because of the provisions of 10.19(a) or (b) and more than one relief pitcher is used, the victory shall be awarded on the following basis:
(1) When, during the tenure of the starting pitcher, the winning team assumes the lead and maintains it to the finish of the game, credit the victory to the relief pitcher judged by the scorer to have been the most effective;

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/official_scorer_10.jsp

Assuming this a game played under NCAA rules, at 1st glance it looks like the OSK made a mistake. However, if you look at b2 below, it can throw a monkey wrench into the gears.

Some folks mistake that to mean its OK to give the pitcher of record the win, even if he’s the starting P and doesn’t have enough innings. I’m no rules guru, but in similar instances, I’ve seen the rules interpreted this way.

Section b is talking about relief pitchers, and only when the starter hasn’t pitched enough innings to qualify under section a. Therefore, nothing in b can be used to give a starter the win.

I can see where someone would make the mistake of assuming the starting P was the P of record by the note in section d, but to me, it doesn’t make any difference because the starter didn’t meet the requirements of section a.

In order to get an absolute answer, someone would have to contact the league or NCAA’s rules arbiter. I suspect though, that the coach had something to do with who was given the win. I’m not knocking coaches, but sometimes they don’t worry about such minute things as the rules, and in this case I’m guessin’ he’d rather see his starter who was 0-1 at the time, get the win, than some reliever getting’ mop up innings.

NCAA - Winning and Losing Pitchers
SECTION 25.
a. For all games of eight or more innings, a starting pitcher must pitch at least five complete innings to receive credit as the winning pitcher. For all games of fewer than eight innings, the starting pitcher must pitch at least four innings to get credit for the win. Additionally, the winning pitcher’s team must be in the lead when he is replaced and must remain in the lead for the rest of the game.
b. If the starting pitcher does not pitch enough innings, the win is credited to a relief pitcher in the following manner:
(1) The winning relief pitcher shall be the one who is the pitcher of record when his team goes ahead and remains ahead throughout the remainder of the game. No pitcher may receive credit for a victory if the opposing team ties the score or goes ahead after he has left the game.
Note: Whenever the score is tied, the game becomes a new contest insofar as the
winning and losing pitchers are concerned.
Exception—If a relief pitcher conforms to the above regulations but pitches briefly and ineffectively, the scorer should not credit him with a win. If a succeeding relief pitcher pitches effectively and helps maintain the lead, the scorer should award the win to that succeeding pitcher.
(2) By prearrangement, if three or more pitchers are to be used, the pitcher of record shall be considered the winning pitcher.
c. When a batter or runner is substituted for a pitcher, all runs scored by his team during that inning are to his credit in determining the pitcher of record.
d. The starting pitcher shall be charged with the loss if he is replaced at any time while his team is behind and remains behind for the remainder of the game. Similarly, any relief pitcher who is the pitcher of record when the opposing team assumes the lead and never relinquishes it is charged with the loss.
Note: The pitcher of record shall be the one who is in the game at the time the winning team gains the lead, provided that the lead never is relinquished, or the one who is charged with the runs by which the opposing team takes the lead, provided that the lead never is relinquished.
e. To receive credit for a shutout, the pitcher must pitch the entire game or enter the game with no outs in the first inning and pitch the rest of the game without any runs scoring.

quote:

Originally posted by Southpaw Pop:
Liberty up 18-6 after 4. SP had lead & coach looks to have wanted to see other pitchers this early in the season. SP MAY also had high pitch count (7 Ks, but 9 hits) for this early in season. Liberty never relinquished the lead, so no other pitcher to be considered in the decision. Too big of a lead for a save situation. Some one has to be awarded the W.

Who would you have given it to?

It doesn’t matter what time of the year it is, what the coaches may or may not have wanted to see happen, the pitch count or anything else. As far as I’m concerned, the rule is what it is.

From what I see, there’s no doubt that the kid who threw the 3 innings and gave up no runs was by far the most effective relief P in the game, and since the starter couldn’t be given the win. He gets it.

Thanks, Scorekeeper, for the NCAA reference...
...I'll be interested in the response I get from our SID.

I've seen the rule applied several times in college games to give the win to a starter, normally early season, where the starter by design was only throwing 3 or 4 innings.

quote:

Originally posted by JT:
...but MLB rules state it differently

One of the most difficult things for people to come to grips with is that there are not only different rule sets, they state things differently too. The only games I know of that are played under full OBR, which is what you quoted, are professional games.

Everyone else is using some kind of different rule set that's derived from OBR, but definitely isn’t, and there is no “pecking order”. You can’t say that in OBR the rule says so-and-so, so it overrules the other rule set.

For more than a decade and a half I’ve tried in vain to get the different organizations to move to a common rule book, but there’s just no way its ever gonna happen in my lifetime.

We beat this topic to death last spring, too. Turns out the NCAA is the only one to have this rule. NFHS requires 4 innings and MLB 5, no ifs ands or buts. But as noted above, you can have a sub-5 winning starter in NCAA play.

quote:

Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
We beat this topic to death last spring, too. Turns out the NCAA is the only one to have this rule. NFHS requires 4 innings and MLB 5, no ifs ands or buts. But as noted above, you can have a sub-5 winning starter in NCAA play.

You’re wrong about MLB requiring 5 innings for the starter in every circumstance. Look at 10.19b as JT quoted it above.

NFHS is 4 innings because 7 innings are a normal full game. If you look t 9-6-6-b, you’ll see that it too makes allowances for games going less than the full 7 innings.

But don’t feel bad! That’s why us SK’s get the big bucks!

quote:

Originally posted by JT:
Thanks, Scorekeeper, for the NCAA reference...
...I'll be interested in the response I get from our SID.

You’re welcome.

I’ll be interested in what they say too, but won’t be too surprised if they let it slide that the SP gets the win. The local guys are pretty good in general, but they usually know the local coaches, and don’t like to step on their toes for no good reason.

The only way to really get the final answer is to get it from the rules committee guys at the NCAA level.