PG,
Stotz commented on the usefulness of showcases and that they paid attention to the PG showcases as one element of their recruiting process. The comments about PG and other showcases were on the order of saying that showcases gave evaluations that were rosy because you were paying for the showcases while their evaluations were more critical and therefore more useful.

I've never seen a Stanford evaluation so I can't say anything about those. As far as the PG evaluations they have to be taken relative to the other players being evaluated and one has to realize that PG generally has to project further out than Stanford.

60'6",
Most or your "rant" seemed to be aimed at me and at my son so I'll take exception with the low 80s really being high 70s at the least. When I say low to mid 80s about my kid, I'm being conservative. Most would consider him to be mid 80s. He certainly didn't throw a fastball that got down to 80 mph at the Stanford camp. Heck, one of his problems is keeping his change under 80 at times. He's basically an 83-84 mph guy on a Stalker and he'll drop down as low as 82 at times and he'll go as high as 86. You tell me if that's high 70s. Those numbers are pretty well documented.

There's one thing you don't do on here and that's talk down about another webster's kid. What you did was a pretty thinly veiled example of that and I don't appreciate it.

Sorry but I've seen firsthand how very good players who stick to playing HS ball don't get seen by college coaches while good but less talented players who go the showcase, scout ball, etc. route get scholarships. Your putdown of showcases is way off the mark. A kid in our league, which along with your league is one of the best in the nation, got no exposure whatsoever from his HS team and was drafted in the 25th round. They knew to look for him because he attended a PG showcase. I've also personally seen one of your players attend a college camp, show well, outwork everyone else and get ignored so there's no one right way to do it. You have to weigh all your options and try to do what's best for your player given what you can afford and hope it turns out for the best.

baseball168,
When I say that the Stanford camp is great for position players I realize that pitchers in general have an advantage over position players in that they can be easier to evaluate than position players. That's an inherent problem for position players at all camps and showcases and as a result I just don't take it into account. Those guys are good at seeing potential but they aren't magicians and it is hard for all but the very best to stand out as position players. Even then I saw a very good young player attend a showcase and not perform well relative to his abilities. If I had not known how good of a player he was I would have said he didn't stand out at all. The showcase guys saw some ability and gave him a relatively high rating compared to how he performed. 0'fer with K's vs. good and weak pitchers and weak throwing. A couple months later he committed to a top D1 program while he was still in his sophmore season. That's why you go to showcases, go to college camps at schools you've targeted, go to the Stanford camp to get wide exposure if Stanford isn't a realistic target, play scout ball and tournaments, play on your HS winter and summer teams, and if you're like most of us you do your best to pick the right mix of those because nobody can do all of those.

60'6" is my younger son's varsity HS coach. That fact isn't hidden...his identity is in his profile. He was not my older son's HS coach (although I wish I would've sent him there). He has been my friend for several years before my younger son even thought about attending his school.

Funny, I didn't know he read this board until this morning.

He is tremendously well-regarded in Northern California as one of (if not the) best HS coach in the area. He has many ex-players in college and pro ball. He works his tail off to help them get there.

He played college baseball himself and he is also well-respected by college coaches in our area and beyond. He's had players move on to ACC schools for example. He is also involved in USA Baseball.

He is a very honest and ethical person. He regularly works area clinics and camps...for free. His HS program is the most cohesive and well-run program I have ever seen...by a large amount.

Of all of the "baseball people" I know...I probably respect him as much or more than any of them.

Having said all of that...I wouldn't have taken his post the way you did CADad. I do know one thing for sure...when he tells me something about baseball, about colleges, about pros, about coaching, about life and even about things I think I already know...I listen.

Can we all pitch in a few dollars to help with that nearly $6K plumbing bill?

jbb,
It was pretty clear in my post that I knew full well who he was. I also know full well that he doesn't know who I am and implied that if I said my kid was a low to mid 80s guy that he wasn't anywhere close to that. I know that parents commonly do that and understand where he's coming from but that was a little too personal.

He also said "The Gods of baseball do not like showcases." That's pretty inane.

He also came up with a dig at Bum who recommended PG showcases. Personally, I think that both the PG showcases and the Stanford camp have their advantages and you don't have to do one or the other. In fact, I think the PG showcases and the Stanford camp work together in that exposure at a PG showcase can lead to a coach making an extra effort to look at a player during the Stanford camp.

I saw one of his players at a college camp a few years back and he stood out to me not just because of how well he played but because of how hard he played and how hard he worked and because when the other kids were busy trying to get noticed he was busy picking up more than his share of the balls. That usually comes in part from good coaching.

Even so, well respected or not parts of that post didn't impress me one bit.

I didn't see his post as negative either. I doubt that a respected HS coach would put down a player on a HSBBW. I did see it as a rather tongue and cheek way of suggesting that this is a long process, that sometimes will or will not yield the results we like and everyone needs to chill a little. If there was something said negative about showcases, it was an opinion and many people will agree, they serve a purpose to provide a place where your son can be evaluated or watched but they are a business. You do not have to attend a showcase or camp to get a scholarship. Well run tourneys and a good summer league worked best for us. Everyone finds a way that works best for them.

There are some people who work too hard at this process and some who don't work hard enough. Finding the balance is key. You can spend a small fortune and not get what you think your son deserves and you can spend little and get a huge return, whatever level one ends up at. If the final evaluation and working with suggestions is an important process in attending the camp, it doesn't matter who sees your son, does it?

I liked Rob Kremer's reasons for attending the camp. He did his homework. Knowing that schools recruiting his son would be there, he took advantage of the camp. That's having a good recruitng plan.

Intereting thing though, you never know who is reading........

TPM,
If it wasn't very clearly targeted at me in part, I wouldn't have seen it as being overly negative either. But it was.

I've tried to be pretty straightforward here about what the camp is and isn't. I've said we got our money's worth. I don't even agree with jbb's "don't attend" post because I think it still might be well worth it for those people to attend. I'm sure there are a lot of people who are targeting Stanford or a top 25 D1 who end up with a good fit elsewhere as a result of attending the camp. Personally, my goal for my son is finding a solid academic school where he'll play. A mid-tier D1 would be wonderful but he'd have to improve a lot to get signed by one and even more to play.

I'm not saying don't attend the camp. I'm simply saying if you're a pitcher go there with your eyes open and don't assume you're going to pitch at Sunken Diamond. If you do get to pitch there it's a bonus and appreciate what your good luck or your ability has gotten you.

Well someone sent this or some part of this thread to Coach Stotz and identified me by name. Thank you very much for your class act. Goodbye HSbaseballweb. I won't be posting here anymore. I don't want to associate in any way with anyone who would do something like that to a kid. By the way Coach Stotz sent an e-mail to my son (nothing negative) and not to me. So whoever did this you went after my son. I hope you are proud of yourself.

YOW!
Jeez mods whattya say to that?

CADad - Lets be 100% clear (just in case you were wondering)...I don't know your name nor your son's name and so, no, I didn't forward any of this to Coach Stotz. Don't even know his phone number nor email address anyways.

It would be foolish of any poster to think that college coaches don't read this site on their own. Even if Coach *** from YYY Univ. doesn't read it, you can bet he has friends who do and a thread like this will get their attention much like critical-of-PG threads in the past have gotten PGStaff's attention.

I didn't know my son's HS coach read it until this morning...but there is his post...and it didn't surprise me one bit. The HS coach talked in generalities...much the same way as most experienced HS coaches who have seen it all will. Since I talk to him from time-to-time, maybe he was talking about ME in his posts? But I didn't take it that way. You shouldn't either.

1 last post. I believe justbaseball and have no reason to believe he would have forwarded the message.

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
Bum,
Were there the same negative comments about PG from the Stanford coach when you went there?

No.

I also did not forward any messages. I also do not know who you or your son are. I was just blowing off some steam while I awaited the plumbers next extra charge. I am sorry to have stirred all this up. I leave the computer to deal with some mold and I return to a firestorm.

CADad...I would love to discuss some of my experience with the changes that have occurred in the game we both love. Send me an email and when I have time...usually 4 in the morning, we can share some ideas. I am sorry if you feel slighted. I was not targeting you personally...since I do not know you. But you represented, to me, another example of how the game has changed, and I tried to lighten the mood a bit. Again, I am sorry to have sent this thread in a unnecessary direction.

I hope you would remain as a poster on this site. It is fun to read about experiences from all over the country. I seldom post, and I surely regret posting this morning. Having been born and raised in Orange County, I bet we share some similar experiences.

Sorry

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
Well someone sent this or some part of this thread to Coach Stotz and identified me by name. Thank you very much for your class act. Goodbye HSbaseballweb. I won't be posting here anymore. I don't want to associate in any way with anyone who would do something like that to a kid. By the way Coach Stotz sent an e-mail to my son and not to me. So whoever did this you went after my son. I hope you are proud of yourself.

CADad - there is no reason to leave the hsbbweb.

Look, your initial criticism was legitimate imho. It does not mean they are cast as villains in any way and from reading justbb's posts over the years, they would never hold anything against your son based on what you have written.

I have told this story before but I'll tell it again. My whole recruiting knowledge comes from Stanford and it was all before I ever heard of the hsbbweb. My friend encouraged me to call Stanford on the phone since he knew my son was a decent student and also a decent ball player. Trembling, I looked up the athletic department phone number on the web and called the office. I asked to speak to someone from the team and they immediately put me on the line with Coach Stotz. He was one of the most gracious individuals I have ever met. In 10 minutes, he explained how the whole process worked. He said that they only recruit players they have personally seen play. When he said that, the light bulb went off for me. After that discussion, my focus changed from hoping someone would show up at my son's high school games to putting him in front of programs that he had a legitimate shot of playing. The rest is up to them. Use the Stanford experience to your advantage. Many times, coaches cannot see the thing that makes your son special at first. It only takes time and effort sometimes. I am positive that the Stanford experience and this experience known as the hsbbweb will open doors that ought to be opened for your son.

60'6 and Just baseball;

The word "entitlement" was one of the reasons, I sold the Area Code games to Student Sports in 2004. ESPN is now the owner of the AC games and Student Sports.

A few parents, not players, felt entitled to be invited to an Area Code tryout, because I invited 60 college coaches and 40 pro scouts attending each tryout in the USA.

We did not charge a fee to attend the tryouts and the pro scouts selected the players for the tryouts and the final games.

In 2001, 18 AC alumni are now playing in the ML.
It was "fun" and great enjoyment to recognize this talent [Delmon, Upton, LaRoche, Ellsbury, McCann, Braun, Sweeney, James Loney, Tulowitzki] all recognize my son when he enters the clubhouse with his SSK bats.

Times are changing; the cell phone, computer games have replaced the daily 500 ground balls, 200 swings with heavy bat off a "high tee", the running splints to strengthen the legs and shoulders.

When we travel to Australia with pro scouts and our teams play 12 games in 14 days, many American high school players cannot adjust to this competition. "Exposure" works both ways.

However the player who is prepared and make adjustments will be awarded with a college scholarship or pro contract.

Can you imagine the number of years of college coaching experience at the Goodwill Series events, the AC games and the Stanford camp!!!!

Multiply the number of Stanford camp coaches X 20 years. WOW! What a great opportunity to ask questions.

Bob

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
Well someone sent this or some part of this thread to Coach Stotz and identified me by name. Thank you very much for your class act. Goodbye HSbaseballweb. I won't be posting here anymore. I don't want to associate in any way with anyone who would do something like that to a kid. By the way Coach Stotz sent an e-mail to my son and not to me. So whoever did this you went after my son. I hope you are proud of yourself.

I think that this is very sad for the HSBBW regardless of what has transpired over the last few pages. If someone had a complaint with CADad, then it should have been directed at him, not his son and if someone felt that the need to forward anything, why mention someone by name?

I think that we all have to be very careful of what we post, how it comes across, what we say in public as well, and have to understand that many many different people read this website.

I'm really sorry this has taken such a negative spin and that feelings have been hurt.

The message to take from this is as parents we need to do our homework about recruiting, attending camps and showcases, and try to find what venue will best suit our player.

Personally I have enjoyed reading all the different perceptions about the Stanford camp. Obviously everyone's experience may not be the same but in asking my son what he thought about it last year, he said he had a blast with his friends. I think the kids bring it down to the basics.

If we can't discuss things here and ask questions where can we do our research? Thanks for everyone's input,and is it ok to say "settle down"?

I don't want to leave this with any misconceptions. The e-mail Coach Stotz sent to my son had nothing negative in it whatsoever. It was meant mostly for me and he just didn't have my e-mail address. OK, this really was my last post.

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
I don't want to leave this with any misconceptions. The e-mail Coach Stotz sent to my son had nothing negative in it whatsoever. It was meant mostly for me and he just didn't have my e-mail address. OK, this really was my last post.

Thanks for clearing that up, it really doesn't have to be your last post.