Wanted to stir up a discussion on this one.

How many times have we heard outfielders berated to "hit their cut man". My feeling is that only should an outfielder hit a "relay man". Else he's throwing to the bag or plate that has the best chance to get the lead runner.

Of course his throw should be on a line, defined as a reasonably low arc that results in a long hop to the base/bag. Of course there's uite a bit of arc, perhaps 15 - 20 feet high at places on throws of 150-200 feet......heck a 6 ft high release requires a 110 mph velocity to travel 120 feet before it hits the ground...give or take.

When have you ever heard the coach say "cut man" get to the right place to be able to cut the throw should height?

In order "hit the cut man" the outfielder would have to (1) check the runner to determine where to throw (its his ultimate call), (2) check the base he wants to throw it too to line up his approach, then (3) check the cut man?.....all the time trying to follow the ball he's supposed to catch?

Throw to the base to get the lead runner you have a play on with max velocity and minimal arc. Let the cut uy get to his position to set up an extra play option.

Wow.....

You simply keep the throw down to give the cut-off man / relay man (call him what you like) a chance to catch the ball.

It simply keeps other baserunners from advancing on a throw that cannot be cut. If it can't be cut (in most cases too high) then baserunners advance.


People tend to make it much more difficult than it is.......Just keep the throw down.

And something that helps with this problem is this.

Very simple.

Incorporate taking infield to daily practice.

When taking infield AT ALL TIMES......make your team cut the ball and throw to a base that was not the intended base.

Example:

Throws Home......cut to second or third.....
Throws to 3rd....cut to first or second.....

Be creative.....but please quit yelling "hit the cut-off man".....they know that already.....most just don't make it a priority or take the time to teach WHY IT IS IMPORTANT......TO KEEP RUNNERS FROM ADVANCING......PERIOD.....

It is not the outfielder's decision where to throw. Where on earth did you get that idea?

The catcher makes that call and yells it to the field. The infielders line up in cut/relay position accordingly. The outfielder is supposed to know the situation and anticipate where he's going to go, but in the end he is supposed to listen and respond as a part of a defensive unit. Under no circumstances is he to simply take it upon himself to air mail a throw where ever he darned well pleases.

An outfielder who misses the cut man is indulging himself to the detriment of the team.

Bear in mind that right up until he loads to throw, the OF is watching the BALL, not the runners. The catcher is the guy with everything in front of him and he is ALWAYS in charge of this situation. A good catcher will chew your hind parts off if you ignore him.

We always say that a good outfielder is like a labrador retriever. Let them run it down and get rid of it quick. No thinking allowed.

.

Let me get this straight Doughnutman...I'm not allowed to think.



Who thought of that?

Midlo Dad....The guy who has the ball ultimately decides where to throw it..... a fact of nature. Hopefully his decision is a good one.

I've seen on the D2 level, 1 out, line drive shallow rt field...possible but unlikely catch..bases loaded...the catcher hollering 4, the 3rd baseman hollering 3 and the SS hollering 2 as various runners read the possible catch differently.

Outfielder played a very short hop...came up gunning home, 1st base cut (about 40 ft in front of plate)and went 3 to get forced runner at 3rd (and almost runner going to 2 as he froze on the liner).....run scored as guy on 3rd read it as it would not be a catch and broke on the hit. Had he froze at 3rd he likely would have been out on the force.

The outfielder had to decide where he was going well before the catch/throw so he could be on line with his throw to come up gunning in an quick fashion.

This is the way it should work.

OF should know the situations before the pitch is thrown. Because he and the catcher are trained with the same basic concepts in mind, they should be on the same page. So, the OF can definitely set his footwork in anticipation of throwing where he believes he should go.

But if the catcher is yelling something in particular, he is the captain of the defense, and the OF needs to adjust to throw where he's told. In the example you give, throwing home was not smart because the runner, you say, read the hit correctly and broke on contact. There was never going to be a play on him. Maybe OF thinks there will be a play at the plate on the runner trying to score from 2nd, but as you say, he got a bad read and even with the cut they got him at 3rd and almost relayed to turn a DP at 2nd.

Now, suppose the throw had gone to 3d in the first place. One less throw, so your relay to 2nd is in time to turn the DP. And those being force plays, if those happened to end the inning (if there had been one out when this all started), no run would have scored even though the runner had already crossed home.

In that situation, if C is yelling "THREE" and my OF throws it home, OF had better get ready for a lesson when he comes back into the dugout. The fact is, the C is in a position to see all the runners and to see the play develop, while the OF is rightly concentrating on looking the ball into his glove. That's why the C is in charge, period.

OF will have to make a decision only if the C fails to meet his responsibility to call out commands.

A situation like that happened in last night's Nats-Cubs game. Runners on 1st and 3rd, no outs, swinging bunt bounced to the pitcher. Catcher stands at home with his hands at his sides and says nothing. P has to look to see if the runner from 3d is coming; he is, so P tries to get the ball home. Except that in the moment he looked to check the runner, he muffed the ball. Scored E-1, but really C's fault. If C makes the call as he is supposed to, P is not supposed to second guess C's decision by looking at the runners, he's just supposed to catch it and get it to the C at the plate for the play.

This is how mental miscues can lead to errors. And it's lack of fundamentals in situations like these that got Manny Acta fired.

Sounds like you're an OF yourself who thinks you know what you're doing and you want to make the call. If you played for me and persistently did as you suggest, you'd sit until you learned a lesson in team play and humility.

P.S.

The proper term is cutoff man, not relay man, because relay throws are not always made. Some times there is no play to be made, so the best decision is to simply control the ball and thus prevent further advances.

quote:

The proper term is cutoff man

thank you.

Reminds me of a story back in the 80's when Daryl Strawberry and Keith Hernandez got into a little fracas in the clubhouse ... no one got upset; in fact several were happy to see Strawberry finally hit a cut-off man.

Can't stress enough the importance of getting the ball through the cutoff man's head, or at least make it cutable. I've seen my teammates do this nonsense where they decide what to do instead of getting the ball to the cut man and it costs bases which turn into runs. You can't win the game if you can't do the basic things to prevent runs from scoring.

But coach it’s your fault I can’t hit the cut! All fall and winter you have us play high parabolic arc non-specific Long toss and this is the mechanic I produce when asked to throw ballisticly, I just can’t stop flying it now?

quote:

But coach it’s your fault I can’t hit the cut! All fall and winter you have us play high parabolic arc non-specific Long toss and this is the mechanic I produce when asked to throw ballisticly, I just can’t stop flying it now?

Get a life Yardbird. No one teaches long toss the way you describe it.

I'll attempt to interpret Yardbird's post into what a coach would actually hear if a player brought that excuse.

"But coach, it's not my fault that I can't throw a baseball 150 ft to target like the other kids on the team that all do the same throwing workouts. I know this because my Daddy told me he read an article and joined a baseball sect cult that said it was all your fault and I'm the most perfect thing ever. How could you ever expect me to get on top of a ball and keep it low???"

Fin

Watch a MLB game and see how many cut offs are missed in a game!!!!

It will shock you

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Watch a MLB game and see how many cut offs are missed in a game!!!!

It will shock you

ain't it the truth

and how many throws to the plate that are waaaaaay off line

I get the strong sense that MLB cares far more about offense than defense when it comes to OFs. Sure they have to perform at some minimally acceptable level, but the number of weak-armed, fundamentally unsound OFs is shocking.

Most people think those guys are just spoiled, but a serious issue is that once they end spring training, they really don't practice it that much. The grind of daily games and taking advantage of the few days off they get have left a lot of teams not really taking good, old-fashioned infield practice any more.

quote:

Originally posted by cball:

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Watch a MLB game and see how many cut offs are missed in a game!!!!

It will shock you

ain't it the truth

and how many throws to the plate that are waaaaaay off line

It's unbelievable the high percentage of poor throws from mlb outfielders. I agree with Midlo that much of that comes from practice neglect. I imagine if you couple that with weight training designed to increase hitting power, your throwing skill probably will become less reliable. And as Holden C said, that's the focus for most OF's.