I think that this is a very thought provoking thread and visited a few times today to watch responses (slow friday).

I also was one of those who sent son to play local LL with local travel only and nothing major until he reached HS. I have in the past taken a stance against big time travel for those under HS age.

However, I think that there is such tremendous pressure for parents to "think" that there are certain things you have to do, so early, so many new opportunities to make sure your son has success in HS, after HS. Coaches recruiting earlier and earlier, kids verballing earlier and earlier, makes many anxious and feel the need to do more than wait until son is older.

I hope that some of these posts and those in other threads, will help folks to realize that we have made such a simple game so complicated.

While I agree with much said and think JBB post is one of his best, any parent reading this who has been "too involved" or spent "too much", should never feel quilty.

Perhaps this brings closure:

We had a player at one of our events a few years back and he said to me very openly " Wouldn't it be great if we had a bubble over the field and the parents sat outside and could only watch?"


AMEN!!!!

Great thread, and excellent contributions by all.

I myself didn’t get the instructional manual that listed the do’s and don’ts of being a baseball parent, and I don’t know anybody that did. But I worry sometimes that baseball has become an elitist sport. That is something I always hated about golf or tennis (not that I hate either sport), and telling people how to act or looking down one’s nose at those who act differently are symptoms that lead me to think that it’s more than a bit true.

Social skills are complex, culturally diverse, and subject to broad degrees of interpretation. People in general learn these skills from observing. If you want parents to become more tolerable, you model tolerance for them. Personally and professionally speaking, I have a much, MUCH bigger beef with under-involved parents, if you know what I mean.

Just my 2 cents.

Just...Great post!
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Yes...Parents are too involved.

I was one of them...and I'm a nice guy.

High school baseball coaches should "look over their shoulders" because so many of them are not qualified but get the job because they teach at the school. Then, too often, they pick the teams based on an indoor tryout (especially up North) based on a few ground balls taken and throws made in a gym.

To them I say....get out in the sunshine and see the potential makeup of next years varsity teams. Kids play at all levels in the summertime and there is usually no problem for anyone seeing a few games.

Parents cheering for their kids should be applauded. People interfering in the game should be sent away (parents or anyone). Can you imagine how boring sports would be without the cheering fans?

I have come across travel teams at the young high school ages and below demand that their players do not play Little League. I keep hearing all summer about Legion 'C' teams demanding that their players devote themselves solely to Legion ball.

It's getting crazy, but I think that is because the coaches are for the most part inept and arrogant.

All of the demands that kids play exclusively for one team and no other limits the child's recreation. The level of competition is usually higher at the levels that are asked to be forsaken.

I had a policy with my boys trying out for money teams. If they could start on the team, I would fork over the money. I would never pay full price for my child to be a bench player. I told my boys that if they didn't win the starting spot, they didn't make the team.

I have often wondered why pitchers pay full price on travel teams. They will not pitch every day or in some cases twice in a tournament. They should get a better rate.

Here's one solution to parents being "too involved". . .when my son was younger, he did gymnastics during the winter. The gymnastics center had a soundproof area above the gym floor for parents to watch, and parents were only allowed to watch 1 lesson a week. Boys' gymnastics when they are 10 looks more like kids trying to see what daredevil things they can do from the swingset but girls' gymnastics at that age is WAY different. I sat up there one time and decided that I would take baseball parents any day.

Did you ever sit next to, during a competition, a cheerleader's mom?

John and TPM - You do bring some other memories to my mind! My daughter cheered for a couple of years, did gymnastics for several years, and dance for a couple! Baseball doesn't own all of the "too involved" parents!! As a matter of fact, now that I think about it, maybe baseball parents are some of the more mellow folks!

There are some powerful words coming out of this thread thanks to many of the poster here including Justbaseball and Infielddad. While I have never met Infielddad or Justbaseball, I feel as if I know both of them quite well. Here are two people that are very involved in their son’s lives but at the same time I know that involvement is a blessing and not a burden to their sons. How do they do it? Maybe that’s what sets them apart and makes them who they are. Thanks for sharing!
Fungo

i'll throw my 2 cents in or nickel as tr says. parents need to be INVOLVED,getting the kids to games,washing uniforms,supporting our kids.i do think with all of the showcases parents feel the need to be or do everything the other kid did.
i just left a sr babe ruth game ages 16 to 19.two parents yelled out to their kids to see if they needed gator aid.i happened to know one of the dads so i asked if his dad would have done that?i do think kids are babied today.i tell my kids to bring what is needed and if they don't.oh well.
i see the better players parents coducting themselves differently.as rz said i sit in the outfield by myself to avoid the game by game replay.parents have changed, society has changed.i never liked change but i'm having a hard time finding 8 tracks, i am going to have to move forward and get a cassette player.

they say kids are hereditary,if your parents didn't have any you won't either.
great post with some great insight.

Very good topic. I just discovered it this morning. Anyway....

I am involved with both of my son's baseball. And I watch games and cheer them on. I groan if one of them miss a ball, pop it up, or strike out. I jump out of my seat when one gets a great hit, or makes a good play. My 17 yr old has been contacted by colleges, and yes, I'm involved. I want to know who may be interested and how much. I go to the college website and check out everything they have to offer. I get my son involved by having him research the college as well. i make sure thatthey have phone #'s, snail mail address, and e-mail address. That's what parents do. Help.

I haven't spent that much on camps and showcases. I like the theory that, "if you are good, they will find you". But, that has changed somewhat. I believe, and I amy be wrong, that scouts are now relying on showcases. My son has been invited to a national showcase, but I just don't have that extra $3000 to spend on the trip, hotels and the showcase itself. Don't get me wrong, I think that what these guys are doing for the kids is great. It's just not right for us. I will take him to a camp. I shop around. Kentucky's was inexpensive and he learned a great deal. He went to a showcase this past June and he recieved calls from two colleges. That showcase cost me $50. The organization doing the showcase just so happens to be headed by a parent who cares about the sport and kids. And he really cares about how they are seen. Some coaches couldn't make it. He sent evauluations to all of them, and then some.

I've seen parents that are too involved. There was a couple on our HS team that would make Kim Jong Ill(SP) look tame.

Being involved could be a good thing or a bad thing. You just have to know how to recongnize which is which and adjust.

would this have happened back when(yes I am an old timer so humor me)

this actually happened(about 2 years ago) and was told to me by a former coaching colleague.

Parent shows up for a high school game. His kid is not starting. goes to the bench tells the kid to get his stuff and they leave. Of course a few comments to the coach on the way to the car. When I heard it I said are you kidding or just another day at the office?

Will - I've seen that exact thing before except a bit expanded. There was a kid that in 8th grade didn't make the JV, but only the HS freshman team. They were to have team pics made and the dad was there. Dad had a fit and made son strip out of uniform and they went home. The next year - same kid in playing on a travel team. Sitting bench and dad makes him leave - stripping out of uniform as they head to car. He takes the uniform and throws it at one of the wife of one of the coaches. They ended up changing HS from the public school where the fresh/JV argument happened and going to a private school. Apparently, he didn't get playing time there neither right off the bat and the kid just quit. No more baseball.

The kid wasn't a horrible player, just not a terrific one. He would have ended up contributing somewhere if he'd been given the time by his parents to do so.

The 'walking parent' is a good example of the under-involved parent.

If parents want their child to play ball they have to seek out the niche where that child fits. It may not be 'elite' ball but there is always a team out there for that child to play and start at his position.

It never makes sense to me to put your child on a team where they will sit the bench. If I am paying for my child to play ball, I expect that they will play ball.

Winning and losing are part of the game, but winning is more fun. I'd be content to have my child play regularly on a losing team than sit the bench on an undefeated team.

lafmom and will, the parents that I spoke of in my previous post did this very thing. Their son was benched after missing a couple of critical catches in the OF and slinging equipment after a stikeout and then cursing. Parents come down and ask coach why, during the game, and they went off. They stormed off with son in tow. The better way would have been to wait until game was over and discuss with coach, why their son was benched.

If you think baseball parents are "involved" go to a girls softball game

Then come back and say baseball parents are over the edge

I have been following this discussion during the past week.......in the past ten years I have done a significant amount of research on the parenting of athletes. Baseball is not unique as far as the behaviors of parents are concerned. Hockey and s****r tend to top the list when it comes to extreme behaviors......softball parents, in my experiences, are not worse than baseball parents.

Early in this thread somebody mentioned that parents sometimes feel a sense of entitlement because of the amount of time and money they have spent on their children's athletic development, etc. This is very true, and in baseball, where there are opportunities/competition for (mostly partial) scholarships and the potential to play professional baseball (even though about 4-5% of professional baseball players earn an outstanding income), the sense of entitlement is often evident. Many parents believe that hard work, attendance at showcases and camps, private instruction, etc., entitles their sons to starting positions, scholarships and more.

A major issue comes with parents who can be referred to as 'helicopter parents'. These are the parents who hover over their children, especially in the athletic arena. They force the kids to practice, even at young ages, sometimes dictate to coaches the requirements for team participation, and lead their children step by step, etc.

Note: above is not a complete description of what is considered a helicopter parent, nor do all of these parents exhibit all of the characteristics.

Sport Psychologists who specialize with youth/HS/college athletes do believe that children of the helicopter parents tend to struggle significantly when they go away to college, or anyplace where their parent(s) are not there to speak/do things for them. This tends to happen to athletes who are elite athletes as well as the rest of the athlete population.

On the flip side, a large majority of parents understand that playing a sport is about the kids, not the parents. They understand that participation in sports is one way that their kids develop communication skills, learn how to interact with adults, develop leadership skills, and become the person they are destined to become.

Appropriate parents understand that what their children are to become on the field is not nearly as significant as what they become off the field.

.
Grateful,

Excellent post....as usual..

At the risk of being attcked once again for "Self Flagellation", I DO feel that it is CRITICAL be keenly self aware and self vigilant...

There is a new book out that deals with EXACTLY this on a Life Scale.... "The Price of Privilege: How Parental Pressure and Material Advantage Are Creating a Generation of Disconnected and Deeply Unhappy Kids"

Have read a few excerpts...

"...We need to examine our parenting paradigm. Raising children has come to look more and more like a business endeavor and less and less like an endeavor of the heart. We are overly concerned with "the bottom line," with how our children "do" rather than with who our children "are." We pour time, attention and money into insuring their performance..."

"...Between accelerated academic courses, multiple extracurricular activities, premature preparation for high school or college, special coaches and tutors engaged to wring the last bit of performance out of them, many kids find themselves scheduled to within an inch of their lives. Criticism and even rejection become commonplace as competitive parents continue to push their children toward higher levels of accomplishment"..."

"...But whenever we prematurely solve problems for our children, we deprive them of the opportunity to come up with novel solutions that allow them to add another tool to their arsenal. We also deprive them of the sense of competence that comes with figuring things out on ones own..."

"...I want to be clear that children do need a great deal of involvement from their parents. High levels of parental involvement are shown to be an important predictor of success for children in many areas. But appropriately involved parents know the importance of stepping back as soon as is practical, and of respecting their child's strivings toward independence. Overinvolvement is not simply "more" healthy involvement; rather it is involvement that can get in the way of development..."


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May i ask who is the author of the book?

And are they/he/she a parent?

Many of these type books are written by people who have not been parents

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TR...

Madeline Levine, Ph.D. is a psychologist in the Bay Area. The author of two books on children and the media, she lives with her husband and three sons.

(Don't know her or if her sons play baseball!)

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