Originally posted by RJM: Thanks for answering for the original poster. I only have twelve years of tournament ball experience. He has such a can't do, doomed approach to the situation I wanted his take on bad seeds.
Given the situation I have to think the original poster has been in some terrible confrontations with the tournament director. He said there's a history. TD's don't arbitrarily pick someone and penalize them. There's another side to this story.
Where do you see the cant do/doomed approach. Also DM is spot on with what happens. Also this is not just me who this happens to. This TD has what I refer to as the GOD complex.
Anyone who DARES to question him is struck by lighting lol. Yes there is a history but its a justified history and this TD has a history with a lot of people.
If you call questioning the TD because he advertised giveaways on his website to players from Worth, Mizuno and Easton to attract teams. Then once you get to the tournament which required a hotel stay and he says oh we didnt have the money. Yes thats a history.
Its a history when you question the TD because he doesnt follow through with his duties.
Its a history when a TD oversteps his boundaries and you call him on it. Usssa rule 3.03 states that only a state director can reclassify a team.
Yet this TD is always threatening coaches who disagree with him or question him with reclassification.
Its a history, when a TD doesnt apply the rules to fairly to all.
Its a history when rules are changed as you go.
Its a history when he cant find umpires that know what an infield fly rule is.
So yes RJM I do have a history with this TD and so do several others. I am willing to bet that I am not on this TDs Christmas card list either. SOOO WHAT!!!
Does my history with him still make what he has done any less improper and illegal. Does it make the ramifications to my son any less important.
Posts: 139 | Location: South Florida | Registered: April 06, 2009
Originally posted by txbaseballdad: I see this as two seperate issues. The first being the conduct of the director on asking you to leave the park. If you or your family were not creating a disturbance, and it does not sound like that was the case, he was definitely outside the scope of his authority. It sounds like you are already getting that addressed. The other issue being the USSSA rules on playing down to a lower level. It has been my understanding from my son playing in USSSA for several years that the rule has always been you could play down one level (Ex: Major to AAA) and you never could play down two levels and if you did do that you were now classified at that level (in this case AA)for the rest of the season and could only play up one level (AAA) for the rest of the season. That has been common practice (right or wrong) for some time in the area we were living in. So if that is in fact the actual rule, the director might have been dooing your son a favor in the long run because it could have hampered his participation in the Major level. I understand your son just wanted to play ball with his friends (we have been in the same position) but the levels are there for a reason and a part of the concern is injury to the players that are not as skilled. Again, this is my understanding of the rules and I could be incorrect as I am not a USSSA expert.
Yes the divisions are there for a reason and I personally agree with the rule 100%. However this TD was aware of several kids on several different teams in this AA tournament that had Major classification history.
There was one such kid who was also on a current 12u Major roster. There were 4 kids from my sons 10u major team last year. This team was one of the top 10u major teams in the country last year. Yet all 4 of those kids were on the same 11aa team in this tournament and the TD was well aware of this because other coaches I know said they emailed him on it.
Anyone who plays Usssa knows that the only reason AA teams have major classification players is they want to sandbag to when the metal.
I personally think all rosters here anyway should be frozen after a team plays their second tournament. This in my opinion would stop all the teams from bringing in ringers and keeping kids at their proper classification.
If this happen then AA teams like the one my son was asked to guest play for would have other AA players they could get because all these other teams would have to disband because of the number of major classification kids on their AA rosters.
Posts: 139 | Location: South Florida | Registered: April 06, 2009
Do you want to win the fight and screw things up for your son ? Your history whether you are right or wrong is screwing up your present.
My thoughts exactly. OCB, you are coming across as though the battle with the TD is the focus, rather than what is best for your player. When you talk about having to drive to Tampa, that seems to me like a "reason" for you to stay and fight with this TD.
I remember when stuff on the small field seemed like life and death. It's not. Let it go. Find another option, relax and have fun. When your son is in HS, hopefully you will look back and realize that this wasn't as important as you thought.
Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll: Do you want to win the fight and screw things up for your son ? Your history whether you are right or wrong is screwing up your present.
I have thought about this, discussed it with friends in the know and we all have come to the same conclusion.
My son is screwed no matter what with any Usssa tournaments from Jacksonville to Tampa since this TDs company extends to those areas.
One of two things must happen in order for my son to be able to play Usssa.
Either this TD is fired or two he is severely reprimanded by Usssa and told to back off. I honestly dont see any of those happening because if it does then Usssa is admitting guilt.
I have only 3 options for my son.
One he can play AAU and Nations in Tampa. This is an extra 1.5 hours each way and I figure that will cost me an extra 10k per year. The money is not the issue but our schedules would hinder this.
Two, our family can move to another state. This will cost me 15 to 20k just so my son can play Usssa. The money is not the issue. That I have plenty of but I only have one son.
Three, I could file a lawsuit against Usssa and the TD but this would cause my son to be suspended from Usssa events according to their rules.
Posts: 139 | Location: South Florida | Registered: April 06, 2009
One he can play AAU and Nations in Tampa. This is an extra 1.5 hours each way and I figure that will cost me an extra 10k per year. The money is not the issue but our schedules would hinder this.
Two, our family can move to another state. This will cost me 15 to 20k just so my son can play Usssa. The money is not the issue. That I have plenty of but I only have one son.
Wow. That's what I miss about youth baseball. The drama.
You are in Orlando, Florida. If you can't find a local option for your son, then you are not looking hard enough.
Has your son been banned from playing on his major level team ? I can tell you from all my years of BB, no one wins in these fights. Your son will be the biggest loser. One thing I have noticed over the years is that the same issues are recurring in every part of North America. I learned to stay in the background and stay out of the fights. Believe me I love a good fight but it was my son who would lose.
Posts: 5978 | Location: Canada | Registered: October 13, 2005
One he can play AAU and Nations in Tampa. This is an extra 1.5 hours each way and I figure that will cost me an extra 10k per year. The money is not the issue but our schedules would hinder this.
Two, our family can move to another state. This will cost me 15 to 20k just so my son can play Usssa. The money is not the issue. That I have plenty of but I only have one son.
Wow. That's what I miss about youth baseball. The drama.
You are in Orlando, Florida. If you can't find a local option for your son, then you are not looking hard enough.
The only local options here for Travel Baseball. AAU, USSSA, Nations and once in a blue moon Triple Crown.
In Orlando you have Usssa. Most teams in Orlando that play some AAU in Tampa also play Usssa. If my son wont get a fair shake in Usssa it limits the number of teams he could play for that play both Usssa and AAU.
In Tampa for Travel Ball there is AAU, Usssa and Nations. There are teams that play only AAU but all those are in Tampa.
We play more than just travel ball. My son also plays Babe Ruth and Pony but the caliber of ball is not the same as travel ball nor do you have the opportunity to play as many games as in travel.
BHD, you are right however that no one wins. Yet in order for there to be change someone has to fight. Turning a blind eye only allows these type circumstances to continually be abused by those in power.
Point in fact. Can anyone give good reason why Usssa has a rule that if someone threatens or files a lawsuit their child is suspended?
My personal take on that rule is simple. Its meant to handcuff participates in Usssa. If Usssa wants to ignore or sweep an issue under the rug they know most parents are not going to jeopardize their childs ability to play in their organization in areas that Usssa is the dominate sports body.
Youth baseball is not life or death. However when your child loves the game as much as mine does and it brings family and friends together to celebrate the relationships and bonds that are formed because of the baseball. Then yes even though it is not life or death it becomes a huge and important social part of ones life.
Posts: 139 | Location: South Florida | Registered: April 06, 2009
The TD is def out of line in his singling out your son, but getting your USSSA state director or Nationals to boot the TD isn't going to happen. USSSA will support their TDs, esp ones that are long entrenched in big markets.
Realize its Fall Ball, & not as many opportunities to play, but playing down two classifications, rightfully sent up a red flag. Am sure we all agree this should have been addressed differently. IMO, each & every one of these 11Majors should not have been allowed to play on same year (or one year older) AA rosters. Thats the only way to be fair, and this could have been addressed well before the tourn began, if rosters were required to be submitted 48 hours before play began & your state director was on the ball.
In my home market (Oklahoma), its basically been the rule in USSSA that Majors could play down only one classification, and only IF they played up a year. North Texas USSSA has had a similiar rule for several years. In OK, during the Spring, players leaving a Majors team & joining an established same year AAA team risk having that AAA team bumped to Majors. To many of us, this has made absolutely no sense, as OK USSSA just does not have the numbers of regionally competitive Majors teams. Not to be demeaning, but most of these players were nothing more than solid AAA players & in our little pond one player was(is) not going make a decent AAA team into a competitive Majors team. When put in such a position, our newly bumped Majors teams usually give up driving out of state to find USSSA Majors tourns to make, and instead play Super Series Americans. This only takes money out of our local USSSA TD's pockets, yet uninformed & discrimate team classifications continue.
Posts: 12 | Location: Somewhere between the garage & a ballfield | Registered: March 11, 2009
Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll: Do you want to win the fight and screw things up for your son ? Your history whether you are right or wrong is screwing up your present.
Wow! This is twice today I've agreed with Bobblehead. And this is over 10U baseball? I can't imagine how torqued up you'll be by 14U. 18U? If I had a laundry list of complaints like yours that other coaches agree with I'd go to USSSA as a group. I'd never take the guy on as an individual. He has too much power.
If a lot of coaches have issues with the TD you have other options to play baseball. In 13U we got the attention of our TD when we started running our own tournaments with eight of the best teams in the age group. It cost him $4,000 plus concessions each time we ran our own tournament. We got our own fields and umpires. It was half the cost to play baseball. We didn't invite weak teams. It was good baseball. Who cares about USSSA points. It's about playing good ball. The USSSA ranking system is a joke anyway. It worked so well four of us ran our own tournaments the following year as a fundraiser.
* Impossible is just a degree of difficulty *
Posts: 4491 | Location: Mid-Atlantic | Registered: October 29, 2007
Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll: Has your son been banned from playing on his major level team ? I can tell you from all my years of BB, no one wins in these fights. Your son will be the biggest loser. One thing I have noticed over the years is that the same issues are recurring in every part of North America. I learned to stay in the background and stay out of the fights. Believe me I love a good fight but it was my son who would lose.
Great advice. Wish I had of learned it sooner in my son's baseball journey. Now when I get frustrated with baseball politics, I just go out and throw the ball with him. We both feel better afterwards.
Posts: 20 | Location: Ohio | Registered: May 17, 2006
Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll: Do you want to win the fight and screw things up for your son ? Your history whether you are right or wrong is screwing up your present.
Wow! This is twice today I've agreed with Bobblehead. And this is over 10U baseball? I can't imagine how torqued up you'll be by 14U. 18U? If I had a laundry list of complaints like yours that other coaches agree with I'd go to USSSA as a group. I'd never take the guy on as an individual. He has too much power.
If a lot of coaches have issues with the TD you have other options to play baseball. In 13U we got the attention of our TD when we started running our own tournaments with eight of the best teams in the age group. It cost him $4,000 plus concessions each time we ran our own tournament. We got our own fields and umpires. It was half the cost to play baseball. We didn't invite weak teams. It was good baseball. Who cares about USSSA points. It's about playing good ball. The USSSA ranking system is a joke anyway. It worked so well four of us ran our own tournaments the following year as a fundraiser.
I agree with you and your ideas. However in this age group for most of the coaches and some of the parents its all about the prestige of the trophies, medals, usssa ranking system and the Elite 32.
To prove that point. I can point to a 11u major team here that just traveled up to South Carolina a few weeks ago to play in a Super NIT with a bunch of weak teams.
We have a Super NIT here at the end of Nov at Disney but the teams here will be much stronger than those that were in SC. This 11u Major team I would say is one of the top 7 strongest 11u teams in the country. Yet they went to SC to win the Super NIt and get the berth to the Elite 32 in SC instead of waiting 6 weeks to get it here.
I am somewhat new to travel baseball politics and I have made some mistakes along the way. Knowing what I do now if I had some of those things to do over again I would but that is just water under the bridge.
The one thing that I cant stand is corruption and those abusing their power to take advantage of a situation but I am finding out at least here in Orlando that seems to be the flavor of the day.
Can some of you share with me where you think the best year round youth baseball is located.
Posts: 139 | Location: South Florida | Registered: April 06, 2009
LOL just thought I would post something I just saw interesting. It seems now the tournament director has blocked anyone from seeing the teams in this upcoming 12u aa Fall State Warm Up tournament.
I guess he doesnt want others to see who has major history classification players on their rosters. Just another attempt to abuse power.
Posts: 139 | Location: South Florida | Registered: April 06, 2009
OCB, I don't blame that team for travelling up to SC and trying to go ahead and get that berth out of the way. I recommended anyone around here that thought they wanted to qualify for it to do the same thing. Winning Super NIT's are such a cr@p shoot sometimes because there are outside forces (weather for one) that can affect the game. It is nice to know you have qualified and can make plans around that from a travel perspective. We have an automatic berth this year because we won it last year, so it is nice knowing we don't have to chase a berth around the SE, hoping it does not rain or that all the strong teams don't end up in the same side of the bracket. (Because seeding is based on USSSA points, this happens a lot.)
Whether people want to admit it or not, the USSSA Elite WS is usually the strongest tournament in the country for at least 13U and below.
Posts: 170 | Location: East Cobb GA | Registered: October 23, 2008
I agree with you and your ideas. However in this age group for most of the coaches and some of the parents its all about the prestige of the trophies, medals, usssa ranking system and the Elite 32.
To prove that point. I can point to a 11u major team here that just traveled up to South Carolina a few weeks ago to play in a Super NIT with a bunch of weak teams.
We have a Super NIT here at the end of Nov at Disney but the teams here will be much stronger than those that were in SC. This 11u Major team I would say is one of the top 7 strongest 11u teams in the country. Yet they went to SC to win the Super NIt and get the berth to the Elite 32 in SC instead of waiting 6 weeks to get it here.
These are warped priorities for pre teen or pre high school baseball players.
* Impossible is just a degree of difficulty *
Posts: 4491 | Location: Mid-Atlantic | Registered: October 29, 2007
