How do you teach your young players to lead off of first base and return on a pick off attempt?

As an umpire, here's some friendly advice.....No lead until the pitcher comes to the SET position. Otherwise, he's a fielder (until engaged on the pitchers plate), worse, the hidden ball trick can be played if he's not on the mound.

Always, always, know where the baseball is located.

I advise not taking a lead until the pitcher is on the rubber. That eliminates the hidden ball trick. I do not make the runner wait until the pitcher becomes set but to be aware that the pitcher is not obligated to be set before a move to first.

Two things must happen before runner gets lead off base-
1. batter is in batters box
and
2. Pitchers rear foot is touching his plate.

As soon as both of the above happen then it is safe for runner to get lead off. If you wait for pitcher to come set then it is too late as the pitcher can deliver the pitch at this point.

Best advice- get about a 5 foot lead when the pitchers foot is touching the rubber before he comes set. Then as he makes his motion to come set get another 4-5 feet. Once pitchers start their motion to come set they will almost always come set before trying a pickoff. After he comes set you may decide to get another 2-3 feet lead off the base. I believe that first base runner with righty on mound should get a big enough lead that he has to take one big step and then dive arm outstretched to get back to bag barely in time. If he can run back he is too close and if he has to take more than one step before diving then he is too far. Lefty pitchers are different as they have a much more deceptive motion in a pickoff attempt and so I like to only get far enough off that they can still just turn and dive arm outstretched.

One other thing-

I like to teach the runner to watch the front foot rather than the rear after they get their lead. Watch for the front leg to start to move, once it does either steal or get a secondary (righty pitcher with runner on first). Second is more difficult as you have to watch for the defense creeping in behind you- always know where 2nd and short and cf defensive men are. On second you have to wait for the pitchers front leg to start its forward movement towards home before they can get secondary or steal. Third base runner should always get his lead in foul territory just in case of balls hit directly at him and causing him to be put out if he was in fair territory. Third base is tricky because you have to wait the longest time before getting a good secondary and also have to get back quickly after the pitch is caught as it is the easiest bag to get picked off of for a catcher throwing down to third.

Always get your lead away and in "back" of a straight line between bases (about 2-3 feet). This allows them to have a better angle when diving back and makes it more difficult for the defense to tag them.

Wow what a bunch of miss-information here. Of course the umpire does not want to slow the game down. Forget what he posted.

GBM you continue to amaze me with your lack of knowledge about baseball. This is not intended to offend you, just to make sure others who read your stuff understand who they are dealing with. Forget about the front leg, watch the heal.

Since you are looking for fundamentals I will send you to the following website to help give you some more information. You will find more coaching fundamentals here than anywhere else I have found on the Internet. The main page is www.webball.com . The base running section is here:

http://www.webball.com/cms/page5396.cfm

I assume you are teaching kids who have come up from LL and are just learning. So Keep It Simple. KISS.

1. On the bag at all times until the pitcher takes the rubber.
2. NEVER take your eye off of the pitcher.
3. There are two leads. A) Primary B) Secondary
a.Primary are two big slide steps. Never cross over your legs going out.
b. Secondary is one more. Go out to primary when the pitcher is getting his signs. Go to secondary once he comes set.
4. Watch the heal.
5. 3-4 big slide steps after pitcher releases….ball not hit get back immediately.
6. ALWAYS get dirty going back to the bag on a pick attempt.

BTW teach your pitchers to pick when the kids are moving out. You will get more base runners this way, particularly with young kids.

Stealing with Lefty’s is actually very easy with young kids. Take a short primary lead and go on first move. Go out to secondary and get him to throw over at least once. Once he is comfortable with your short lead go on first move. Even if the pitcher throws to first keep your runner going hard to second and in most cases he will be safe.

Practice with your kids and pitchers and make a game of it! They will learn and have a blast.

Good luck!

BOF- We walk out left then right then two shuffle steps. Just one lead. The secondary is referred to after the pitcher starts his motion. Three hard shuffles usually gets a player into a position to where the ball is going into the hitting zone. At that point, he has some weight on his right foot (to continue to 2B or push and work back to 1B) and his body is still squared up to home so he won't be off balance if he gets back-picked.

Ump-Sorry, bad advice.

GBM- You have no idea what you are talking about. Honestly, you should just shut up and listen to people on here who actually know what they are talking about. You consistently spout misinformation.

What I teach:

Take the lead once the pitcher is on the rubber.

From that point it's, watch the pitcher and listen to 1B coach.

The appropriate lead depends on the player, but it's just enough slide steps out so that they need to dive back on a pick. Never cross feet moving out on the lead.

***Speaking of the dive back. I've always taught to dive back with the right hand and looking away from the throw. This serves two purposes. It protects the face from a low throw and the runner is now facing in a direction to be able to see a passed ball, get up and take second.

Secondary lead is good, but teach to not take eyes off the catcher when returning.

Hope this has been helpful.

Tim

Here's another tip:
Tell your first base coach to shut up and stop talking. Let the runner focus on the pitcher. At the youth level, I've seen numerous pick-offs while a base coach is yacking to his runner.

As a coach, if I see a talkative opponent base coach, I'm having my pitcher throw over alot...

We teach exactly what ncball does. I also happen to agree with him about therefump and GBM.

I differ from deaconspoint on the coach. If my runner has to get back because I yell it, he is probably already picked. We teach during practice and let them execute in games.

quote:

If my runner has to get back because I yell it, he is probably already picked.

Except for back picks where F3 plays off the base behind the runner (perhaps with the bases loaded) and tries to sneak over to the base. The baserunner can benefit by a warning from the base coach in that situation.

quote:

GBM- You have no idea what you are talking about. Honestly, you should just shut up and listen to people on here who actually know what they are talking about. You consistently spout misinformation.

Shut up? I gave some really good information. I find it amusing that you just spout off at others.

You crack me up!

quote:

Wow what a bunch of miss-information here. Of course the umpire does not want to slow the game down. Forget what he posted.

GBM you continue to amaze me with your lack of knowledge about baseball. This is not intended to offend you, just to make sure others who read your stuff understand who they are dealing with. Forget about the front leg, watch the heal.

BOF,

We may be saying the same thing (heel/ foot) not sure but it sounded like you are meaning the rear leg, maybe not, anyways I will clarify myself-

I have been there a hundred times. We time runners who both watch the front leg (foot technically) and then watch the back leg (foot technically)(same kids). Runners who watch the back leg get a worse jump on stealing. Leads are all about putting pressure on the pitcher and hopefully moving over on passed balls, wild pitches or just straight stealing.

when I coach first base I watch the pitchers front foot because of this important fact-

You will never steal second watching the rear foot! On most pitchers (rightys) they must either step off and throw or step first towards the base with the front foot (MLB rules which most LL play by). Watching the front foot will never get you in trouble. Runners at second "MUST" watch the front foot to see when it starts to break either towards them or towards home. Third base runners must watch the front foot to see when it is too late for them to step towards third in a pickoff attempt. At first with a lefty it is the same as being on third for a righty.

So I don't know what you are talking about but the runner really should be watching what the front foot is doing, especially if he wants the edge on stealing.

I agree (whatever that means) with Deacon. I like the player to shuffle rather than walk because his feet are always in position for a dive return. Taking that left step, rather than shuffle, puts his body in a poor position for a return as soon as that foot elevates.

I note that the concensus is a dive return. Yes with a line behind the bag. Yes with the reach with the right hand to the bag. Yes with turning the head away from the pitcher for the reasons given. But one facet is missing.

What do you tell your runners about the left hand on the return?

quote:

Originally posted by 3FingeredGlove:
Except for back picks where F3 plays off the base behind the runner (perhaps with the bases loaded) and tries to sneak over to the base. The baserunner can benefit by a warning from the base coach in that situation.

I will have my 1B coach talking about the 1B's position with the runner but yelling back is pretty fruitless. It is the coaches job to watch the 1B's when playing behind.

I always taught: heels on the bag until pitcher toes the rubber, then immediatley take a left, right step, then get low and shuffle-shuffle.
Line up even with or slightly in front of 1B and open up the right foot slighlty.
Going back: one step and dive to the back corner of the back with the right hand and looking into RF.
Never take eyes off the pitcher.

quote:

I advise not taking a lead until the pitcher is on the rubber. That eliminates the hidden ball trick.

I don't think you have to wait until he toes the rubber. I don't think he can legally take the mound without the ball or it is a balk.
Umpires correct me if wrong.

quote:

BOF- We walk out left then right then two shuffle steps. Just one lead. The secondary is referred to after the pitcher starts his motion. Three hard shuffles usually gets a player into a position to where the ball is going into the hitting zone. At that point, he has some weight on his right foot (to continue to 2B or push and work back to 1B) and his body is still squared up to home so he won't be off balance if he gets back-picked.

I agree, just differences in terminology. I assume you do not cross legs "walking" out, because if we see it our pitchers will be picking on the "walk out"

quote:

I don't think you have to wait until he toes the rubber. I don't think he can legally take the mound without the ball or it is a balk.

Your observation is correct. Of course the pitcher may be off of the mound with the ball elsewhere. There is no advantage for the runner being off of the bag before the pitcher is on the rubber.

As an aside of nit quality, if the pitcher is toeing the rubber he is most likely in the windup position.

quote:

I agree, just differences in terminology. I assume you do not cross legs "walking" out, because if we see it our pitchers will be picking on the "walk out"

WE do cross but I agree it's not a bad time to pick and can be succuessful if the runner is non chalant in his lead. Otherwise he is still close to the bag and can get back standing up if he's paying attention. I just don't like the side shuffles because too many youth ballers will look back at the bag after each shuffle step. And some will sort of hop hop.
One of the biggest faults I see is taking the lead way off the line out toward RF. Kinda like a two out lead at 2B.