Our 12U team is blessed with a strong defense – a great help to our pitchers. The coaches tend to put little-to-no pressure on the pitchers about speed – it’s all about location. For example:

Prior to Wednesday’s game (we were facing the same team we faced in tournament finals last weekend)… my son was told that they wanted him to work on slowing his change up down. They wanted no gas on his fastball. They also wanted him to use his cut fastball and two-seam. He wobbled along through three scoreless innings with these limitations. It wasn’t pretty and it was frustrating for him when he would get the signal for things like four change-up’s in a row (our coach calls all pitches). He got a pick-off and the infield kept “hoovering” up balls, made a double play etc. He lost a couple of runners in the fourth and came off feeling poorly about himself. The coaches were pleased with his performance though.

Our coaching staff believes that there is no sense in trying to just blow the ball by guys. In the area where we played last year, all you would hear about was how fast a kid could throw – not how crafty he could throw it. Inevitably, no matter how fast you throw, good fastball hitters will catch you. My son goes mid-60’s if needs be and low-in-the-zone. Our other big guy, a lefty, has to be going closer to 70. I am just curious to know…

How many other youth coaches are willing to give four innings of such practice to the kids and at what ages?

Sounds like the coach knows they can throw, now he is trying to teach kids how to pitch. Big difference.

Quite honestly though, I don't see many teams at that age doing much other than raring back and throwing it. A couple of the select teams in the area at 12 stress location and changing speed, but it sounds like you have a coach in the know that is concerned with development.

I don't know if your son plays on a high level team, but the coach from your example is coaching them at a high level in my humble opinion. Many high school teams don't recieve that kind of instruction.

My son's previous coach (11U fall league until 13U Spring league) believes that there are many kids who can throw hard, but fewer who learn to pitch. So, he would work with all his pitchers on the importance of location and changing speeds, rather than rely on his pitchers just blowing it by the batters. While the team still won games, and tournaments, the goal was to prepare them for each successive level, and not just winning any particular game. There were times when he would ask 27 to throw to a certain spot, or throw off-speed a certain number of times, without worrying about the outcome of that particular game or inning. Has it paid dividends? His current and previous pitchers are all still good at the 14U level, and several of them should be on their respective Freshman pitching staffs next spring. (At least according to the coaches I have talked with this year.)

High level teams blast the gas unless it is exceptional. Sounds like your coaches understand this and are trying to impart this knowledge on their pitching staff. How much faster does mid 60's look following a 50's change ? As long as they are not asking him to crank CB's I'd stick around and see what results they get. To answer the original question, common in good programs.

I agree that the players should learn that location, change of speed, and movement are all crucial to winning baseball games. At the same time, I hope this coach is not neglecting teaching these players how to strengthen their arm.

Location and off-speed are great, but a good fastball along with that is deadly.

INshocker- You are everywhere on this board! That said, I like what you have to say as well as standing up to the internet hitting gurus. I laugh at those guys. Regarding pitching, I agree. You get a good fastball by throwing it. If you want to throw hard, you have to have intent- let it fly.

One of the kids who played in my program told me something that made sense to me and it happens alot in the minors in professional baseball. They took away his two-seam and his split and told him to pick either a curve or slider. They wanted him to be great with three basic pitches and, if he needed those other pitches later to succeed, they would give it back to him at the AA level.

In closing, pick ONE fastball and throw it 70% at that age. If you are working on too many things, you'll never be good at one. Find a grip for a change-up that works for you and throw that 20% of the time with fastball arm-action. Finally, find a comfortable breaking ball grip and throw that 10% of the time with fastball arm-action.

INshocker amd ncball,

I agree with both of you that a good fastball is crucial. However, there are many 11U-14U pitchers who have great velocity, yet a piped FB is a long-ball to good hitters. They need to learn how to throw a mixture of pitches, and sometimes a coach may need to force the issue. (And Metropop may have hit upon it: the coach may already know that his kids can throw hard. What they may need to learn is to throw "smart".)

If you think there are a lot of 11u-14u kids who can hit a fastball, wait until you see what good college hitters and pro hitters can do to a straight 95 mph fastball. The point is if any hitter knows what is coming, they will hit it hard.

That said, at Wichita State, we would have a fastball-change up week where the pitchers could only throw those two pitches. Believe it or not, they were surprisingly effective because they had to "pitch." They could not just rely on their dirty stuff to get hitters out. If they don't "pitch" they get rocked.

I like your coach's philosophy, I just believe at 11 years old it is more important to develop a good arm than it is to win baseball games. Pitchers are developed as they develop. I doubt any 12 year old (except maybe Danny Almonte haha!) throws anywhere near their potential. They need to continue to "let it go," especially when just playing catch, until their arm is fully developed. You may win a LOT of games when you are in little league, but is winning little league games these players ultimate goals?

As for the "hitting gurus"...I don't want to say a whole lot, but if you over complicate things for most players, it is just going to go right over there head. The acronym KISS is my favorite for hitting. Whenever I tried to over think my swing my dad would just look at me and say "keep it simple stupid." All of these philosophies and things just make hitters, especially young hitters, confused. I believe they need to be able to understand WHY they have certain mechanics..and you can't explain that using most philosophies.

27's dad- Here's my thought. I would rather have a guy throw one fastball great instead of 2-3 different ones. The key is to spot on both sides and change speeds. More is not better and the problem I see at that age is trying to trick guys instead of developing a quality pitch. This is the same simple philosophy used at much higher levels for the sake of development. Even more important for the younger pitchers.

INshocker- Our pitchers throw their A+ fastball located on the hands followed by a change away as our first two pitches for every batter in our fall scrimmages. It teaches them that they can get anybody out if they change speeds and locate. They get one breaking ball an inning just to keep it interesting.

We have a 40 pitch limit in the fall and the guys compete within themselves on who can face the most batters in 40 pitches. It's all about not being afraid to attack the strike zone and pitch to contact.

ncball: I like that style. So many pitchers try to nitpick and end up making mistakes. If they just have confidence in what they throw and believe in it, you can have average "stuff" and get people out..

BTW, if you don't mind me asking where do you coach? At what level?

I run a program called NorCal Baseball. Started it in 1992. It's Middle school to rising seniors (we do it by grade). Our site is norcalbaseball.org. Check out the alumni section. You might recognize some names. Some of those guys made me look like a very smart coach.

I know I have played against NorCal before. Did you ever send teams out to the Junior Olympic tournament in Arizona...I can't think of the exact name of the tournament. If I remember right you guys are one of the more respected programs in Cali?

Are you involved at all in Connie Mack at the 18 year old level. The reason I ask is because I played on the Midland Redskins and it seems like a lot of the "top" 18 year old teams are out east (Midland, East Cobb Yankees, Bayside Yankees, etc.). I am not trying to say those are the only good teams, but all of those teams compete to play in Farmington for the Connie Mack World Series, and they all recruit from all over the country. I was just wondering if Cali has their own world series or what you do for 18 year olds because I know Cali has some great baseball, they just never seem to send any great teams to Farmington (to my knowledge).

ncball,

I have seen 3 levels of pitchers as they have grown up here in Utah.

First, I have watched kids who are bigger and stronger than their peers just "rock and fire" for season after season. Terrific fastball that they can sometimes spot, and sometimes not. Their coaches are more concerned with dominating the opposing line-ups than developing the pitcher.

Fast-forward to this season (14U). Those flamethrowing kids are serving up gappers, homers, and line-shots and getting shelled. They have nothing else to throw. The curves are all in the dirt...the change-up might as well be BP, and there is no break on a breaking ball. Now each of these kids have worked hard at being able to throw...hard. How many of them may become HS pitchers? I'm not sure.

The 2nd group consists of kids who were smaller to begin with, and so they never had superior velocity. However, the coaches started working with them on the curve and the breaking stuff, and their fastball is just good enough to keep hitters off-balance. They are still having success this year. Maybe not as much as their younger years, but they can still go out and win games. Now, how many of them will be HS pitchers...I don't know...we're not there yet.

The last group consists of the kids who could flat fire the fastball, and whose coaches started working with them early on "location, location, location." They then added off-speed pitches to their arsenals, all the while continuing to place a priority on the pitchers keeping their quality fastballs. These kids are still as dominant this year as in year's past. They still have great fastballs...and better still they can locate them...yet hitters can't sit on #1 because they have a good change-up, or curve, or breaking ball. These are the kids that the HS coaches are drooling over. These are also the 14U pitchers that have HS coaches visiting their games, and asking them to play summer leagues with their teams.

I'm not advocating a kid having 5-6 mediocre pitches at the expense of developing 2-3 great pitches. I am saying that even 12-yr-olds need an off-speed pitch. (Preferably a change-up. I'm not big on younger kids throwing curve-balls.) They need to be able to spot those pitches for strikes, just like the fastball. And, they need to have confidence that they can throw off-speed when they need off-speed. In my albeit limited experience, that seems to take more than one winter session, spring league, or fall league for that to occur. And, it may mean they throw more than 2-3 types of pitches while they learn what works for them and what doesn't.

Does it seem that we're saying similar things...just saying them differently? .

We have been to that tournament every year. We've won 2 of the last 3 and came in second the other time. We usually make it to the final four. Most importantly, we've averaged 20+ guys a year getting D1 scholarships (about 90%).

Regarding Connie Mack, the teams you mention do load up on guys all over the place. You played for the most storied program in the country regarding history.

The California players have great competition here so they don't go away to play as much. The challenge is that the talent is really diluted as there are so many teams. Our highest level is our junior (to be senior) team. We feel like we have done our job for our guys by their senior year. They have grinded it out for the previous 2-3 years and this is the last summer they will ever have that is their own. Our thought is that they should go and play in a college wood bat league or stay home and go on a senior trip while staying sharp for college in the fall.

27- I think we are on the same page. Do you know Bob Keyes?

27: I believe we are on the same page. Believe me, I know the importance of location and changing speeds. I just wanted to make sure your players still realize they NEED a good fastball. They need to continually be strengthening their arm through long-toss. Their bullpen's should be working on location, change-ups, etc. My whole point was to make sure you don't forget about arm strength.

NC: I thought I remembered your team being there. If I remember right, you were the top team the year I was there (2001 maybe?). I understand your view for your seniors to rest, or have time to their selves.

I would love, however, to see you put together a team like the Connie Mack teams do. I do understand how all the Cali kids are spread out, but if you could get the best all on one team, that would be a show. I would love to have NorCal playing in that Connie Mack tournament with Midland and East Cobb. There would have been some serious talent there.

Midland was a great experience for me. The year I played (2003) Cameron Maybin was 16. The kid was unbelievable. I have to admit I was very lucky to have the opportunity to have played there.

INshocker,

The coach would agree with you...to a point. Developing his players was/is his first priority. His goal is to have as many of his players as possible play HS ball, and hopefully beyond.

Yet, can't a program be both developmental and still have a winning record? I have witnessed teams from academies and "development programs" that enter tournaments and leagues and get crushed. Their players may be learning and growing, but their egos sure get roughed-up along the way. And, some of those programs cost a great deal of money to watch your boys lose virtually every game.

And, I have seen teams that are focused solely on winning as many $6 trophies as they can win. The coaches have great egos, the pitchers are blown up at young ages, and the teams seem to fall apart constantly.

The programs I respect are the ones that try to balance building decent young men and improving their baseball skills with winning. Those are the programs that never seem to need to recruit (there's always a "waiting list"), their players go on to better things (whether in baseball or in life), and the young men enjoy the experience. Isn't that what the game is all about?

Inshocker,

I was answering the first post when you put up the 2nd one.

Yes, I believe we are on the same page. That third group is the one I feel has the best opportunity in HS and, hopefully, beyond. (JMHO)

27: The best programs are as you describe. They are able to balance the development with the winning. I was in no way questioning your coach or his philosophies. My only concern was making sure you coach wasn't more about winning and less about developing their arms. That is all. I am glad your coach realizes the importance of both.

I was very lucky, as I was just talking about with NC, to have played on some of the best programs in the country. I understand the importance of being able to develop players and still be able to win.

27 and INshocker. I've always found that if you do a great job of development, the by-product of that is winning. It's all a journey and a series of lessons being learned.