I/We have a dilema...My soon to be 13 year old son has the option to play for two teams next year. One will play at 54/80 and the other 60/90. In any of your past experiences, how can you tell if a 13 year old is ready to throw from 60 feet. I am not worried about his arm strength, just the wear and tear that it could cause. He is physically big enough, 5'7 and 140# at 12 and I expect another growth spurt soon. We have started a stength program and also do the thera band exercises on a consistent basis. I do not want to cause injury by making everything to be a strain on the arm if he is not ready. Feedback please...

I've umpired many AAU 13 games at both the 54/80 and the 60/90 distances. The biggest difference is the speed of play. It takes forever for the players to throw across the diamond, make the run to first, etc. The change is especially big when going from the 12 year old distances. Given your son's size another year of progression wouldn't hurt. Maybe a year at 54/80 would be a good lead in for the full size diamond. Good luck.

Call it as you see it, thanks for the insight. He will play a full fall season of 54/80. Do you think this is enough time to get adjusted before the spring?

Again, coming from another umpires viewpoint, I see very little that is gained from 13-14's playing on a 60/90.

There is plenty of time to get "used" to the big field.....

I would recommend that you pick one and stay with it....the struggling to adapt between the 2 choices can bring frustration to all involved....

I believe the 54/80 is the best transition from the small diamond to the big one......

I say stick to 54/80 for 13 year olds. My son who will 14 soon has pitched both - at 60' it takes more effort and feels likes he's thrown enough at 60-65 pitches while at 54' he usually throws 85-90 pitches. So 54' is better for development (more pitches thrown) and kids have a shot at throwing complete 7 inning games.

Also, at 54' 13 year old's fastballs can be effective. Throw the same fastball at 60' and unless the pitcher throws extremely hard for his age it just won't be effective as a fastball. This then makes the pitchers throw a lot more "junk" and they don't develop the fastball as well as they should be.

We have played nothing but 60/90 as 13U's this year. Most of the time we played up against 14U's. We did not see any negative effects of playing that distance. We also were the only 13U team we saw swinging -3's as well.

Our focus has always been on preparing our kids for HS baseball and 60/90 (in our opinion) accomplished this much more than 54/80 would have.

Also, I disagree with the effectiveness of the FB at 60'. While we never had a dominant pitcher, we won over 75% of our games against 14U's throwing 95% FB and CU. In over 1/2 of our games our pitchers didn't even throw a CB.

redbird5...did any of your kids experience any arm troubles? This is my main concern. What were the biggest adjustments the pitchers had to make moving back to 60'?

If your son has been playing at 70/50 dimensions since age 11, the jump to 90/60 will not be too difficult, though the first few games might get sloppy.

The main thing the larger field does is expose players whose throwing motions are sloppy. Your infielders will need proper mechanics to get the ball from the SS hole over to first. Also stealing is easy because not many catchers can make the throw down to second at that age.

I really don't think the distance has a significant impact on pitchers' arms. The biggest thing is you have to watch pitch counts closely, not innings, because you're likely to see more walks and thus more pitches per inning.

You can consider 80/54 for the fall with a plan to move up to 90/60 in the spring. A lot of growing takes place over the fall and winter at that age, and I can assure you a kid who's playing regularly will be fine at 90/60 by next spring. It's the kids who only show up for rec ball in the spring who really struggle at the 90/60 dimensions.

There is a practical issue here, though. It is often difficult to find fields susceptible to 80/54 play, and you may be forced either to pitch from a flat surface or resort to one of those awful portable mounds.

Midlo Dad, thanks for the insightful info. I feel as though he can pitch at the 60' distance, especially after spending a fall at 54'. He has pitched at the USSSA major/elite level since 8 and has pitched against some top competition. His pitch counts have always been closely monitored and I can't remember a time in which he went over 70 pitches in a game, not including warm ups. Velocity is above average at 50', but he doesn't necessarily blow hitters away. I'd say he tops out at 70 or so, so he has had to rely on pitching...not throwing. He definitely will go thru another growth spurt or two before next spring. At this time last year there were very few 11 year olds that was his height. Now he is still considered tall at 5'8 and 140#, but several 12 year olds have bypassed him. We expect him to be 6-4 or taller, so definitely there is some soon to be growth coming on. Also, the puberty thing has not really taken off either which should help him spring up.

I am 14 now and I pitched at 60 feet for my select team and 54 feet on my middle school team last year. It was a big mistake for me to switch back and forth. I was very effective at 54 feet but I wasn't at 60. At 60 feet after pitching at 54, everything would be in the dirt. But after pitching at 60 then going to 54, I could get alot of swing and misses on high fastballs. This only worked because I could overpower the kids and I got away with a mistake every pitch.

I would stick with one, but don't workout at 54 in the offseason and go pitch at 60 in the competitive spring and visa-versa. My advice would be to pitch at 60 so that he is used to it going into high school. I don't want to state the obvious, but you want to make the best FIRST impression for your high school coach as possible.

quote:

Originally posted by swdawg24:
redbird5...did any of your kids experience any arm troubles? This is my main concern. What were the biggest adjustments the pitchers had to make moving back to 60'?

We had 1 arm injury with a new kid who had a growth plate problem. I found out that his past teams threw him A LOT in the last few years. His injury, however, had nothing to do with this "abuse". The doc said it was a freak accident.

As for adjustments, we really didn't have many because we have been focused on FB and CU since we were 9u. While we don't have someone to blow kids away, we have 9 competant arms who know how to use our defense. They know how to stop the running game and pour the ball through the strike zone. At 60/90, walks, errors and HBPs turn into runs.

Also, I agree with MidloDad. The 12-13 year is the largest growth period. I just noticed yesterday that my son is now about 5'9" (he was 5'4" in the fall) and the pants we bought in the spring (which were very long on him) are now barely touching his shoetops.

Our middle school was a school team which played by HS rules (-3) as well as field dimensions. At 12 and 13 years old for school he was playing 60/90 but travel ball he was still at 54/80. He plays 1 & 5 and had a hard time adjusting back and forth between teams. My son just finished the season with the HS summer league team and you could tell the boys who were used to 60/90 fields. I'd stay 60/90 but make sure he continues to condition and take proper care of his arm.

I think it comes down to the size of the player involved.
If most of the team could use the extra year to transition to the big field then go in that direction.

I wouldn't get too hung up on how your son performs at age 13, whether he's one of the best players around, one of the worst, or somewhere in between.

This is an age where different kids are at different stages of development and there are marked differences just based on that. There may be a rare kid who really stands out and you think he will always stand out, but for the most part it's just too early to tell. The kid who struggles may just need to grow a bit. The kid who's pounding it may be nothing more than an early developer.

The key is, teach the game, play to win but don't sweat the inevitable losses, and don't do anything stupid that risks injury (overpitching being the most common offense).

quote:

Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
I wouldn't get too hung up on how your son performs at age 13, whether he's one of the best players around, one of the worst, or somewhere in between.

...

The key is, teach the game, play to win but don't sweat the inevitable losses, and don't do anything stupid that risks injury (overpitching being the most common offense).

Truer words could not be spoken.

Last year my 12YO son played on a 13U Select team (54/80) and for his Junior High varsity team (60/90). The seasons overlap so he was pitching from both distances at the same time. He did not have any trouble adjusting to the difference, other than for his CB. Once he got his CB working at 60', he found it broke too late for 54'. He focused just on his FB/CU and saved his CB for the Jr High games. He eventually worked out a different CB grip that he could command from 54', but didn't really use it that much.

To your question about arm problems, we did not see any. We've kept to a regular routine of long toss, running and icing after pitching, etc. like you should anyway. I agree with the other comments about 54/80 being a good transition size; take advantage of it. If you have an oppty to play 60/90 during fall ball, that's a great way to get adjusted. But, if you or he really want to move up to 60/90 I say go for it. Every kid is different and only you and your son will know for sure if he's having trouble. Good luck either way.