I'd like to hear some opinions from you guys on this scenario. It's a long one, sorry.

Here it is:

We have two kids(not mine) on my son's 11yr old select team that can play short. Actually more than two but I don't want to muddy the waters.

Kid A is phenominal, he has unbelivable range, strong arm, baseball instincts well beyond his years.

Kid B has a decent glove, but very limited range, an average arm at best, which is made worse by a seeming lack of a sense of urgency. He fields very mechanically. Always the same speed no matter the circumstance.

We play for an "Academy" owned and managed by a couple former minor league players. The team is also coached by a former MiLB player. For the first part of the season they kept putting Kid B at short and while he would make a few routine plays he has not shown much progression and is actually becoming error prone. The last two tournaments they have begun using Kid A some at short. The difference is night and day folks. It ain't even close.

Then at the last tournament Kid A plays two pool play games at short. Makes a play on a fly ball behind third base at the foul line and another diving behind second and throwing from a knee to first for the out. Range, I'm tellin' ya! Then come Sunday and the elimination bracket and out comes Kid B to short.

I'll fast forward to the last inning where we take a two run lead in the top and in the bottom with two outs and the bases loaded a slow grounder is hit to short and he does not charge the ball and then attempts a soft underhand flip to get the kid at second. The throw was not even close, ball game.

This was the final straw for many parents and rumblings have now become out right questions put to coach and managment.

Here's what was said:

Management says Kid B "projects" to be a short stop by the time he reaches High School and their focus is on developing for the future regardless of out come. Management says Kid A will be too small based on parents height(dad is only 5'2") and they do not "project" him to be a short stop in high school.

Now I understand about developing the kids. That's why I have my son with them in the first place. I do not agree that you can predict the future with enough certaintity to short change one player's chance over another and if you continue to play a kid in a position where he fails it will hurt his confidence to the point he may quit. This does not even go in to the fact that the loses tied to this situation are tearing the team apart. How much developing are you doing if you run everyone off from the team? There has to be more of a balance of winning and development as I see it.

Your thoughts please...

We were in a similar situation. My son was kid A. Except he was and still is very tall. The coach had a bias against tall kids at short. They played him in the outfield. We left the team and the coaches almost got into a fist fight and the team split apart over our leaving. Best thing we ever did. Son is starting SS on a much better team.

Play the talent. Let the future take care of itself. It may be OK to project, but as far as I know, nobody knows how tall you are going to be, how athletic, how talented and if you are even going to like baseball in HS. Any coach that is playing the "projection card" is telling you a lie at age 11. Heck, maybe the kid is adopted or his grandparents or uncles are huge. You never know.

I developed our team the exact same way and have been very successful. As a matter of fact, my assistant coach's son was Kid A. He and I are best friends. For the exact same reasons your coach mentioned to the parents of Kid A (presummably you), I moved him to 2B and taught him to play OF.

To date, all of our team is in 8th grade, made their JV team and are all contributing heavily to the success of their teams. Oh...and Kid A...the coaches say he will be their 2B by 10th grade at the latest for a top HS team.

You signed up for this team for the development. Kid A IS being developed but not at the position you want. Not everyone can be a SS. Being able to play mutiple positions is not a bad thing.

And, yes, for the majority of the time, you can project what position a kid will play on the big field...even in HS.

At the 11/12 age the best players are usually shortstops

We had a 12U travel team every summer that played neighboring town teams and our outfield was always shortstops who we moved---at times we even had a SS playinmg second---we simply wanted the best 9 players on the field

Redbird,
Do you really think that you can project positions at age 11? I have seen many times where kids who play 3rd,first,catch,RF and LF are usually interchangeable once you get to HS. Usually bigger kids with good bats and a little slower than MI and Centerfielders. Middle infield is middle infield at age 11. The kids usually switch around many times by the time they reach HS. In Ronbon's scenario it sounds like kid B is way too slow and unathletic to even be a middle infielder and the better kid is being punished by the mystical "projection" label.
Who is the SS should be a simple answer. Who has the best range? Who has the best arm? Who has the best hands? Kid A sounds like he has all three. Give him the job. Just because the kids Dad is 5'2" doesn't mean anything. Where is he from? Did the dad grow up poor with not much to eat? Nutrition alone can give a kid a few more inches and 5'6" is plenty tall to play SS in MLB let alone HS.

Sorry, I didn't see where you posted it wasn't your son.

<He'll be a better player from having done it.>

I totally agree.

<The main issue is the balance between putting the best team out there and being competitive vs. pure development.>

We have always taken the philosophy that you put kids in position to be successful. If a player cannot get it done in practice, they will not play that position in the game. A game is only a chance to show how prepared we are.

quote:

Originally posted by Doughnutman:
Redbird,
Do you really think that you can project positions at age 11?

With pretty good accuracy...yep! Slower kids will be moved to the corners as will poor footwork. It really isn't that hard. Usually, size has nothing to do with it. It is more based on tools.

If you've been around the game, it's really not very difficult.

Yeah... Going through this now with my son. He has a kid playing SS in front of him. His travel team has him playing 2nd.My son feels he has gotten every opportunity and has won the position but the other kid is still the starter based on some other circumstances that are out of his (or my) control.

I will sit back for now and see how things develop. My son works hard, is at every practice and delivers when playing the position. I am at a point where I will leave it up to him. Continue to play where they put him or move on to another team.

If you are in the lineup every game does it matter what position you play in the field

And why does everyone want to move to another team if they are not playing the position they or daddy/mommy think he should--- I always felt that if coach had me in the lineup somewhere did it really matter where I played in the field--I liked to believe that my true position was HITTING

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
If you are in the lineup every game does it matter what position you play in the field

And why does everyone want to move to another team if they are not playing the position they or daddy/mommy think he should--- I always felt that if coach had me in the lineup somewhere did it really matter where I played in the field--I liked to believe that my true position was HITTING

For development. At 13, do wins and loses really matter? Nothing wrong with moving to another team. Happens all the time. I recently changed jobs for a better opportunity to advance. Why not let a young player do the same?

norstar


I think that as a youngster they need to learn how to cope with situations---switching to me is the "easy" way out but that is my thinking.I just think it teaches the kids the wrong thing when you run to another team because you are not the starter at the favorite position.


You mention development---how about the development of the young player as a person

I agree with TRhit on this one. My son faced a similar situation a couple of years ago. Coach promised another kid SS to get him on team and it was a disaster. I just encouraged my son to play where the team needs you. I think it is good for them to deal with some adversity and learn to accept what the team (and life) deals you. To this day, he never complains where he plays. He just likes to play ball. He is now the regular SS, but I have asked the coach to give hime some play time in the outfield to help him be more versatile for when he gets to HS next year. Never know who you will be up against ahead of you, so the more positions you can play, the better.

quote:

You mention development---how about the development of the young player as a person

no problems there.. Thanks for your opinion.

There is nothing wrong with switching teams in my book. There are dozens of teams to play on and sometimes it takes awhile to get a good fit.

And TR, joining a new team and starting from scratch isn't near as easy as you seem to think it is. Walking away from a starting spot with the hope of getting another starting spot at the position your kid wants to play is about as difficult as it gets on highly competitive teams. Nobody knows you and you have to bust your buns to get a chance and the window is very small to take somebodies starting job. The coaches have to decide if you are good enough to be worth the disruption to the line up. The guy you are replacing at SS is usually the best player on the team so you get a trickle down effect of guys getting bumped out of their hard earned position and playing time and the parental complaints to go with it. You had better be hands down highly superior because you won't get the chance if you are just a little bit better! And you need to produce, produce, produce in every aspect of the game because that coach just gave you a chance that increased his headaches. Talk about pressure!

It isn't the easy way out, not even close!

doughtnutman

Please read what I posted--I never said it was eay to make the other team--I said it was taking the "easy" way out---you guys all want to read what you want to read---justlike many parents of the young 13 year old studs want to hear what they want to hear not what was said

With all due respect, I am leary of people who say they can project 11 year olds. The pros cannot project 18 year olds with clarity so it is doubly hard to project pre-teen youngsters. Some youngsters have unbelievable upsides yet can have it ruined by adults deciding way before their time where they will be playing 5-7 years down the road. Obviously, your grandmother can project a slow plodding kid will never make it as a high school shortstop. For kids who can catch and throw however, size has little to do with it. Furcal, Visquel, Ozzie Smith - these guys do not have Derick Jeter's size yet they can play. There is a real little 5-6 or 5-7 guy playing outstanding shortstop up at Oregon State right now. Please don't tell me about size

I saw this type of stuff happen with my own son. When a coach on a team had a SS, we were always told my son would never project as a high school shortstop while the coach's son continued to get undeserved oppotunities as player B. We kept our mouths shut and gladly played 2b or 3b as TRhit suggests. The key is to PLAY. It turned out to be a huge blessing in disguise. All the projectible superstars we were told of as my son was growing up are long since out of the game.

To answer the original question, those guys are talking gobbeldy-gook and are trying to out-think the game. The smaller kid should be playing SS. My advice - let it go and pay no more mind to it. Make your emphasis on having fun and playing the game. Strive for improvement. Winning is always fun but is not paramount at that age.

I don't want to argue TR but I did reread it and you said that switching is the easy way out. Does using "easy" make the definition different? If it does, then my bad. I just get irritated on occasion when people say it is easy to make another team and take somebodies spot. There is nothing easy about it. In my opinion it is much more difficult to leave and start over than to stay and just deal with it.

It may teach them what you believe when you leave a team but it also teaches them to never give up on a goal just because someone says you can't do it. A very valuable baseball lesson in my opinion.

dunkindounts

Read it however you want---I never said it was easy to make the other team --it is never easy to make any team


The easy way out is not fighting for your spot because you think it will be better somewhere else.


We may have to bring in Sister Superior to teach some of how yo read properly

By the way I think your profile says a lot about your thinking process

TR, maybe we differ over the use of phrase "switching teams".

My thoughts are when you "switch" teams it involves making the team and taking someones spot.

If "switching teams" merely means changing uniforms and writing checks to a different organization so that your kid can sit on the bench then I agree with you.

But I think it means making the team and taking someones spot. If you are not trying to do that then why switch? Are you saying that it is better to fight a battle for a spot when you have already out played the kid in front of you in practice and the games but they still won't make a switch due to the mystical "projection" label? I would never stay for that. That is daddy ball and politics and I would always leave in that situation. Everytime!
The best players get the spot. Anything else is wrong.

And I prefer Rainbow Donuts in Phoenix. Dunkin is OK but Rainbow is MUCH better.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
dunkindounts

The easy way out is not fighting for your spot because you think it will be better somewhere else.

I don't think I said anything about not fighting for a spot. If a kid has played a certain position and is put there by 8 different coaches year in and year out, then it clearly has nothing to do with what mommy and daddy want.