Lets see Will. If I added up the PMs and emails I've received thanking me for taking the position I have then I guess we'd have a standoff - huh? He said, she said, blah, blah, blah. To me its a silly way to debate/argue a point really.

Earlier you posted:

quote:

If this were the debate club, you'd be down about a hundred points.

Are debate points scored by peronally attacking your opponent? You've done plenty of that.

quote:

See what I mean? See how dramatic posters become when they are cornered and don’t have a legit defense for what they do?

You bounce back and forth from being reasonable to writing the most condescending posts of all...including very personal attacks. Talk about drama and being cornered?! Like I said, I respect opinions other than my own and I do in fact respect yours.

We disagree. No big deal really. We've made our points. Its too bad you are so angry. Lets move on.

I agree with Will/Jon. (and thanks to the other person for the PM ).

You win, TPM. I'm done here. There is nothing of value on this site that I can't get here in Florida from the people that I know. Some of you need to get over yourselves. I can only say that I hope in a few years I won't turn into a pretentiouis jerk with no sense of humor.

Bye.

It saddens me to see that this seemingly innocent subject has turned into a childish "I know you are but what am I?" put down competition.

If in fact some of these posts are written by adults, please think about what the real pre high schoolers must be thinking when they read what is written here.

This is my opinion and I am 100% responsible for it.

Aside from the discussion about whether or not to post photos of your own player, I just have to say that I am saddened by the few posts here that sound so unappreciative of the "Old Timers" on this site.

The purpose of this site, as ClevelandDad very accurately recapped earlier, is to provide helpful advice to parents and players looking forward to HS baseball, and to help them in the HS years to find a good situation for playing baseball after HS, whether that is in college or beyond. The Old Timers/parents who have been rudely criticized for "intruding" all have players who successfully play or played baseball at top colleges, and many have already moved on to pro ball. This just seems so obvious: Isn't it helpful to receive input from people who have already been where you are seeking to go?

I won't say much more, except to apologize publicly and thank the Old Timers who do stick around and share their experiences with the rest of us, whether newcomers or other Old Timers. Your input and willingness to help parents of younger players is so very valuable, and one of the things that makes this site enormously helpful.

Julie

P.S.
http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6616002781/m/2201031842

Julie et al ...

I have read this thread from top to bottom and must say that I have been taken aback by lot of it.

Altho I might be considered one of the 'old timers' myself (at least I was included with a list of them somewhere in this thread), I really think I understand what has bothered the newbies and the parents of the pre-high school players ... and I think that it boils down to their questioning unsolicited comments, in a joyful and enjoyable thread, from someone who is not involved at this level.

'infielddad' presented his question in a respectful way, but I am sure we can all name posters on this site who seem to insinuate their opinions in topics and/or against specific posters that they find offensive. I do not believe for a minute that that is what 'infielddad' was doing, but again, I was not sure why he posed the question.

'infielddad' is a wonderful contributor to this forum ... he has great insight and stories and advice and encouragement for parents and players at all levels ... and has taken (and sent me) some much appreciated pictures of my own son etc. For various reasons, 'infielddad's' son has proven to be a role model for players who attend other than "D-1 major programs" and I have enjoyed following his son and reading his comments on this site. However, again I will admit that even I was a bit surprised at the question, not quite understanding where he was coming from. He has explained himself and I will take that at face value because I admire 'infielddad' and all the help and ENCOURAGEMENT that he has provided many of us over the years.

Being one of the oldie moldies myself, I am sorry to see how this thread has turned around from being enjoyable and joyful to being full of negative comments to and from and between several key posters. We have had similar problems in the past with threads that went on for pages and pages, which resolved nothing and only created bitterness and anger for people who are most likely all very decent human beings.

This is one of those times that we need our dear friends GOTWOOD4SALE and BULLWINKLE to come out and lighten this place up. Perhaps Bully could write a poem appropriate for pre-high school players and Woody could do the illustrations.

All kidding aside, I hope the parents who still want and need advice feel free to come around and ask it, and if they are hesitant to post it on the main boards, perhaps exchanging PM's with the people they feel might be helpful is the way to go. Some of us oldies even have our e-mail addresses published on our 'profiles' for that purpose ... tho I am not much help for much of anything beyond a mother's perspective these days.

Again, I am sorry to see the way this thread has turned out. It was started in May of this year and had just one or two pages of photos before the wheels fell of the old wagon (that is a western expression for those of you not from the Left Coast) ...

To borrow a question from one of our more notorious California residents ... can't we all just get along?

In closing, I thought I would share a picture of the pre-high school futureback.mom playing baseball ....

As one of the original 'offenders" I'll offer my motivation. I love my children, as I'm sure each and every member does whether an oldtimer or newbie. Doesn't matter whether they are first round material or LL soso, we all love baseball or we wouldn't be here. That your offspring has had sucess has very little to do with you. Walk into surgery and let them know your sister is a surgeon and see how impressed everyone is... Either you enjoy showing pictures of your family or you don't. This much should be obvious to even a casual observer, take a quick look around your workplace, I'm sure you'll find much the same. If in fact you are old and tired, go away, you are likely too darn cranky to be of much help anyway. On the other hand, if you care to share your vast experience, trust many of us will appreciate it. Just don't ask us not to be proud of our kids good looks

Fungo had some nice positive comments on page 1

I for one who not put pics of my child on this website, mainly because I do not want to post them on photobucket or some other website of that type. But I will not dog someone else for doing so. JMO. And by the way I have enjoyed the pics that are posted here.

I also very much appreciate all the info that the "oldtimers" bring to the table. I know that I have learned alot in the past couple of months. I do not always agree with what they say. Not to say that in a couple of years I might agree with them fully. But I do listen.

The one thing I know for sure is that sometimes tempers flare a little more than they should and sometimes we are quick to anger or quick to judge. I also know that if all the "oldtimers" left we would be in very sad shape. It would be a bunch of us newbies trying to figure things out on our own without the knowledge of the "wise ones".

I for one do not want to see it come to that. I started posting and asking questions because I wanted to be a sponge and soak up all the knowledge that the "oldtimers" have. To take advantage of the assistance that those who have gone before us are willing to give.


This newbie really appreciates all the advice that I have been given. Thank you.

quote:

Originally posted by Callaway:
Thought it might be cool to post some pics of our Pre-HS boys.

Just thought I'd remind everyone what was said in the original post for this tread. And it was by an OLDTIMER!!!

I don't think there has been any bragging, any promoting, any insinuation that the boys in these pictures are guaranteed first round pics.

Simply pictures of our beautiful children playing the greatest game in the world.

In the words of the great Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?" This, of course, was uttered just before he said "Ouch, stop hitting me!"

I just returned home from coaching a double-header which I'm sure is shocking to some here.

Julie, that was a very sweet post (and I really mean that sincerely). But you're simply perpetuating the problem by saying the following:

"The Old Timers/parents who have been rudely criticized for "intruding" all have players who successfully play or played baseball at top colleges, and many have already moved on to pro ball. This just seems so obvious: Isn't it helpful to receive input from people who have already been where you are seeking to go?"

I have one very simple question for you Julie... by posting pictures of our sons in this thread, what 'help' or 'advice' were we seeking from infielddad?

That's not a hard question. But it goes directly to the core of the problem here.

Jon

The pre HS photos are great! Please keep posting them! They remind me of when the game was pure - innocent - and the dreams are bigger than life

couldn't be anything wrong with that???

For Your Consideration --- Before I found this site and then in the early days of membership here, I would read the message boards on some of the showcase company sites. On those sites, there was a great deal of player promotion, smack talk, and personal jabs. Bob (the originator of the site) and Julie (his well-chosen heir), and the many moderators have put in an unimaginable amount of work to try to keep any hint of that sort of behavior happening here.

I am not suggesting I believe posting pictures makes a parent guilty of any of that, but I have seen a few posts around the site from new posters that lean in that direction. Understandably, those Old Timers who saw how useless that activity was on the other sites would want to head that off at the proverbial pass.

Any written word can be misinterpreted because of lack of vocal inflection.

And once some posters have gotten their knickers in a twist, no further comment/explanation seems to be able to get them unbound. (And I'm willing to bet that that statement will be interpreted as referring to The Other Guy )

But if you find yourself posting something about another member that includes words that need to be censored out (other than the S word for footie ), "idiot" (in another thread), rude personal remarks, or anything implying that someone has no right to comment , you might want to rethink your attitude toward this Player-Parent Cooperative. And read the Board Manners link.

We all have the right to post on whatever thread we're moved to; it's not up to the other posters to suggest that our opinions need to be invited...by them (?).

It has also been a tradition here to not pass comment on other posters' grammar, spelling, or sentence construction, primarily because none of us would want to discourage posting by players, in particular. And everyone has made the odd typing mistake.

This isn't the first time there has been a newbie-oldie contretemps; it happens every year or so. We've lost some extremely valuable members this way; perhaps the newer members might keep in mind that this site as a whole has had considerable experience and sometimes a response to something they've posted might be because an Old Timer sees a warning flag based on that collective experience. Perhaps the Old Timers might be more forthcoming about why they've taken umbrage to something as they are seeing an Early Warning Sign.

I am so sorry ALL of you. I am new here and in my zest to join and fit in, I posted a picture of my son and restarted this thread, plus, a few others.

This thread looked like such a fun way to make a Web Site feel more personal. No resume' just a picture. It seemed to go so well earlier, I didn't see the harm.

I have been to other web sites where you are ridiculed for asking the wrong questions. I thought I wanted to be here for stories and advice by those who know and understand the game and what it means to kids of all ages and their families. NONE of our friends or family understand why we would want to spend our lives watching our son "play a game" every chance we get but, I know people here do understand.

In the short time we have been here we have already had what one mom said in here signature line, help my son make a tough choice. But it also looks like I started a firestorm. Our family is excited about our kid, alot of other's kids and especially the game of baseball. I am sorry I sparked a war by reviving this post.

PS please forgive the spelling its getting late here.

To everyone - I am sorry for (unintentionally) ruining this thread. It is my fault that the debate ran for so long. I should have expressed my thought once and then moved on. I apologize.

Most especially to infielddad - I am really sorry that I have probably turned a spotlight onto one of the most genuinely kind, helpful and good-hearted people I have ever met. I'll see you at the Goose sometime this Fall.

To Julie - Thank you for the kinds words about oldies. I am sorry that now you too got blamed for perpetuating the problem. You did not IMO, it is my fault it went on so long.

To TPM - You even liked the pictures, yet you got slammed too just for trying to aid a friend. I am sorry to you too.

To the angry/offended/hurt newbies - In my view you over-reacted to what was originally intended as a relatively minor point and a defense of a very good man and friend. But since some of you have been so offended, I am sorry to you too. It was never meant that way. I mean that sincerely.

Anyone who wants to remain angry at someone, please just direct it at me. Please get off infielddad's and TPM's back. They're good people and you can learn an awful lot from them if you're willing to listen.

I will offer one final opinion on this topic by stating that I think deldad had (to me) about the best view on this whole thing...which hopefully does not now put him into any hot water given that I liked it. It has a little happiness/love for each of the viewpoints expressed here within it. I have XX-ed out a fairly kind remark he made towards me because that part is not really important to his overall thoughts. For convencience I will re-post it here (Its on page 4 of this thread):

quote:

Interesting discussion. I am going to fall in the middle of the road, which will probably get me run over but here goes. I wouldn't post a picture of my pre HS player because he wouldn't want me to. He barely likes his picture taken and displayed in the house. Other than that to each his own.

Most people who have come on this site to promote their kids over the years have found it is not a generally accepted practice and usually amend their ways or leave. Any promotion usually is greated with skepticism.

As for identifying your kid, i don't recall if I have ever done it myself. I don't believe so. I have done it by situation. I think that a number of people have had unique situations happen to their kids, me included, and the information that has been shared by others has been useful and I hope some of mine has been useful. ***X-deleted text here-***X.

My kids do not need me to promote them. They will take care of that themselves. I try to learn more on this site than I share. There is no right or wrong way to post, just be considerate of others opinions, and remember you learn more by reading than by typing.

And lastly, I don't hate your pictures. Photography is a passion of mine and I have zillions of my own kids and their teammates over the years. We headed quickly off to other angles of discussion and somehow that got tangled with whether or not I thought the pictures were cute or fun to look at. They are/were. Post them all you want.

I am done posting here on this site...at least for a while. To my good friends here, PM or email me if you wanna chat from time-to-time.

To all, please relax and enjoy this truly terrific site and I sincerely wish the very best to you all and most especially to your children.

Cheers!

Mornin' JBB-whatcha doing up so late? Me? Waiting for uniforms in the hotel of course. Mom's jobs go way beyond game time

Suppose if a young person were to come to this site, he would probably go right to the pre-high school forum. As would anyone new who had a pre high school child.

Gotta admit, I really enjoyed the photos a lot. Is there a way to seperate a thread, so the photos can continue and the debate about them can be in a different thread.

Oddly enough, as so often happens, I'm not sure the debate has anything to do with the pictures any longer.

Nice suggestion, PG.

I like the pictures too. I have a bunch of youth baseball pics. Posting pictures of a kid you are proud of is a good thing. It's too bad all kids don't have parents or at least one parent, or someone, anyone proud of him or her, enough to take pictures and post them somewhere. It's not bragging, which I don't consider unhealthy by itself, anyway. jmo

Bragging (probably a better word could be used) about your son is fine, if done correctly and you don't wear people out with it. (IMO) Posting pictures is not bragging or even promoting.

I think most people are more turned off by self promotion. I don't know much about many things, but I'm an expert when it comes to recognizing self promotion. You're all amateurs if comparing to what we see nearly every day. Would gladly trade places if you don’t believe.

Wish I could display to you all, some of the things we hear and see. There are people who would make you walk (or even run if need be) a mile out of your way, just to avoid another discussion about their son. I’m sure everyone has experienced this to some degree. Just not the degree that we experience it. That said, luckily, most people are not like that.

If you find yourself sitting alone a lot and it’s not because you want to be… You might want to have a little talk with yourself. You might be guilty of making those around you SICK! Start bragging about your son’s team mates all the time and you will regain your popularity.

Tip… Do not listen to me, I have received severe brain damage over the past 15 years. I think it's called Parentitus! I'd have gone off the deep end if it weren't for the kids themselves. They're usually great!