Will, Jon?,

I actually think you have a good point about that old thread. Unfortunately, posted in my "younger" days. To be honest, lately I've been thinking that I wish I had NEVER identified my kids nor myself as asked by PGStaff. However, I'm not going to delete my mistake because I don't believe in deleting posts (but I have apologized in subsequent posts in the past for especially bad mistakes). In fact, if you wanna take the time to go back and read all of my 2,000+ posts over 5 years or so, I am quite sure that you will find a number of things I said or posted that I wish I had not. Maybe this will be one of them someday? I'm still learning. Are you?

I also have a theory about that "Please Identify Your Son" thread and its ultimate purpose and effect, but I won't go into that as I doubt it would be very popular either.

You know, I think if you and 2BMom and others would take a very deep breath and go re-read infielddad's question and my 2 posts above you ?should? realize that they were not the harsh statements you have assumed. You all are way over-reacting and I am a bit sad about that...however, as you all have implied, its getting pretty tough on here to state an unpopular view without getting shot. Oh well.

Good luck to your kids. I'm quite sure that they are awfully special kids and players.

Best,
Tom

quote:

To be honest, lately I've been thinking that I wished I had NEVER identified my kids nor myself as asked by PGStaff. However, I'm not going to delete my mistake because I don't believe in deleting posts.

I have thought about this for a long time now and I think Will has made some good points. I never posted in PGstaff's thread nor have I posted in TigerPawMom's threads about it being ok to brag. There were other places I had made identifications such as in the Where Are They Now link, on my biography page, and there were many threads in the Ohio forum where my son was mentioned in some form or another. After much thought, I have had all references to my son removed from the site. The site should not be about hyping/ promoting/ identifying any particular kid (especially mine) but sharing experiences imho.

That said, I have no problem with the pictures that have been posted in this thread and have enjoyed looking at them. I have just decided it is not right for me however. I actually think larger issues than this thread are being discussed here.

Some things for pre-high school parents to consider:

1) Is the parent of a D1 player smarter than the parent of a lower division player?

2) Is a player who has made it into a top 25 program more impressive than a player who has worked just as hard but made it into a lesser program?

3) Is it necessary for people when posting to indicate the credentials of their sons?

4) Knowing the impressive achievment of someone's son, does that make their posts more authoritative in some manner? Is it possible that some really smart baseball people have sons who are not as athletically talented?

There are other things as well but sometimes it seems the direction of the website (not this forum per se) have shifted into personal hype and away from the ideals of making the high school team and then perhaps finding a suitable place in college someday.

I didn't think infielddad's post was harsh - to me he just came across as a little pretentious, that's all. I wouldn't use the words "hoity toity" if I wanted to flame someone. Sometimes I write things thinking one thing, and they are perceived totally differently than what I intended, and perhaps that's what happened here.

justbaseball, you are obviously a caring person and have your own ideas about the right way to do things. But we all can agree to disagree, and some of us are more stubborn that others and need to make our own mistakes. And we can disagree on this, too - I love to talk about my son and he wanted his picture(s) posted - I guess you can call it promoting him, that's fine, but I think it's just plain old fashioned bragging. He's awesome!

No hard feelings here. I wasn't really that bothered...I mostly thought it was kind of funny.

I came to this site trying to learn more about HS baseball for my sons. My oldest will try out for the freshman team this year and I still have two younger ones. So I will likely still be loitering here for a few more years. I've found a lot of useful info here and a few men and women on here who are always willing to provide whatever insights they might have. (Even though I find it a little weird for anyone to have 10,000 posts on a single web site. But that may be me some day.)

I for one don't have realistic dreams of my sons playing pro ball. I played up through high school and legion ball but that was it for me. I tell them their goal should be to play HS ball if they continue to love baseball. And whatever happens from there is all gravy. At the very least they will learn a lot about baseball and about themselves along the way.

Jon

I am having a hard time figuring out how posting pictures has caused all this furour.
On one hand we promote having people brag about their kids and then slap them down for doing it.
Having a son who plays high level has nothing to do with qualifications for giving your views. I personally enjoy the arguments and info people offer. Pictures of pre HS players is a harmless and enjoyable thread. People who don't like it for what ever reason are free to ignor it unless they have a point of objection that would benefit others. I haven't seen anything yet. I personnaly enjoy the pics. If I didn't I would just move on.

Interesting discussion. I am going to fall in the middle of the road, which will probably get me run over but here goes. I wouldn't post a picture of my pre HS player because he wouldn't want me to. He barely likes his picture taken and displayed in the house. Other than that to each his own.

Most people who have come on this site to promote their kids over the years have found it is not a generally accepted practice and usually amend their ways or leave. Any promotion usually is greated with skepticism.

As for identifying your kid, i don't recall if I have ever done it myself. I don't believe so. I have done it by situation. I think that a number of people have had unique situations happen to their kids, me included, and the information that has been shared by others has been useful and I hope some of mine has been useful. Justbaseball, I think that your unique situation has helped me and been useful to my thought process, I am thankful that you and your son have been identified on this site, and I don't consider it a mistake at all.

My kids do not need me to promote them. They will take care of that themselves. I try to learn more on this site than I share. There is no right or wrong way to post, just be considerate of others opinions, and remember you learn more by reading than by typing.

quote:

...and remember you learn more by reading than by typing.

I have definitely learned that!

I believe I like your view on this deldad...as stated as an overall philosophy. Maybe I'm one of only a handful who by chance know a little about your sons, but believe me when I say that anyone who reads your posts or thoughts learns an awful lot. To me, you're up there with the Fungos of this website.

quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:

quote:

...and remember you learn more by reading than by typing.

I have definitely learned that!

I believe I like your view on this deldad...as stated as an overall philosophy. Maybe I'm one of only a handful who by chance know a little about your sons, but believe me when I say that anyone who reads your posts or thoughts learns an awful lot. To me, you're up there with the Fungos of this website.

Other than deldad's opinions about hunters, I agree with justbb

If people stop typing the site dissappears. You are really puzzling me. Posting pics of a few young ball players becomes a sin.

I have known justbaseball for about 4-5 years now through correspondence through the HSBBW. Our sons had much in common during the recruiting phase, draft phase and college and draft time again. Justbaseball has really talented boys when it come to baseball, yet he is so unpretentious about it, he just enjoys and lives in the moment. I do believe after a lot of things he has been through with his son, you would understand that. Does anyone know both of his son's played for USA? He talks very little about his sons and their talent on the boards.

I thought that the pics were cool, brought back memories and posted a video myself of something I found too cute to pass up.

I did think about it though and realize this is a strange world we live in. While there are many pics of son on the internet, none I have never posted, I would never post a pic of my young son or daughter for various reasons, and it is not because I was promoting him/her. I love utube, facebook, the internet but it's still a creepy place.

I think what got to TD was how some went after infielddad after he posted a question, which he had every right to do, just as you all have a right to post pics. Last year or two Bullwinkle provided a site where we all posted pics of our kids and families and that was a great idea, IMO.

Justbaseball sees and hears everyday of parents promoting their very young players before they even reach HS. For some of us, it seems so strange. I didn't even THINK about the things parents think about today regarding baseball up until his junior year in HS. Not to say this was the intention of this thread.

I just think his intentions were misunderstood same as infielddad's.

As I said, I think the pics are cute, I have problems with the pitching and hitting videos of 9,10 year olds.

In other words, we all have our likes and dislikes, and should respect them and opinions about them.

Well, I have deleted some of my post's. If I feel like something I wrote will upset or hurt someone and feel I may have been a little hasty I think it's better to delete than to leave it out there. I'm not too proud to admit that I make mistakes. I thought this was a fun thread but it's become a tedious posturing contest with basically the pre against the post, the "we know best" against the "enthusiastic pre's". I have kids on both sides of HS and I wish we could delete a bunch of post's and let the pre-hs's get back to posting pics.

Ya know-we are all here for the same reason--we love baseball. We are looking to learn from each other. At least I know I am. There is a lot to learn from the "Old Timers". JBB has given our family some invaluable advice as well as the tons of info from Fungo, TPM, PGStaff etc... And I am sure the newer members have good advice as well. Let's not let our personal biases get in the way of this great site. We are, in a way, a huge family and just like family, we all have our opinions but should try to get along and respect opinions that differ from our own. Who knows, you may start thinking one way and over time, switch to the other side. I know I have on many occasions. Carry on!

TPM - I appreciate the kind comments. I'm not too sure they're deserved, but thanks.

Bystander - Nothing you posted hurt me at all. And I am very sorry you see this as a "post- versus pre-" posturing contest. As a matter of fact, some of the most frustrating threads I've read recently come from a few of the "post-HS" folks. And obviously I've helped to make this a frustrating thread for you and others.

Again, not my intent. I tried to gently state an opinion that I knew wouldn't be popular. I fully anticipated the response, but I did it anyways (after thinking about it) in order to get people to think about it a little bit.

Over my 5 or so years of posting on this and another local baseball message board...I have seen a number of parents put their child in the spotlight through their posts...only to have it backfire on them in a big way.

I am not here to claim any moral ground on this. My sons have been mentioned a few times on here and as I said, I'd probably prefer to have the same 'lack of spotlight on my kids' as deldad enjoys. And trust me, his kids are tremendously talented.

As TPM has suggested, I was just flabbergasted at some of the responses to infielddad's question. Thats kind of what got me to do it. I don't regret it. Its a conversation that has been boiling in a few others' posters minds too over the past months. I've worked for over 15 years with pre-HS baseball players and I absolutely sense a lot more pressure by parents on these young kids. LOTS more pressure. I am constantly trying to help them relax and enjoy the moment.

I do not dislike your kids' pictures at all. But I think the question was reasonable and should make you think a little. If not, no big deal to me really. My father used to say that when I reacted harshly/defensively to a pointed question that deep-down-inside I most probably was thinking that the question had a decent point to it. I tend to think he was right.

Again, the very best to all of your kids.

This has nothing to do with anyones kids having talent or being a major league allstar, it's just about friends who like to share pics and those who enjoy them. Makes no difference if you are Derek, A-Rod, Manny or whomever's mom or dad. The title says pre-hs player pics, if you don't like it don't open the package. No need to take a superior attitude and question or criticize.
Wish the very best to your older sons as well.

As usual, the most important post in a thread has been completely ignored by the group. I'm referring to Cleveland Dad's post which I'm hoping each of you will go back and read. His thoughts are right on and it's why newbies and mildly-annoying posters get hammered (rather than being ignored) by the elite on this site.

I did what Justbaseball asked us to do, I went back and read infielddad's posts and then JB's posts as well. Here is infielddad's explanation for why he asked the original question...

quote:

1.) The site contains a photo gallery and I wondered why post here as opposed to there.
2.) Was there a reason for posting photos in the pre-high school section that could be explained when there aren't similar threads/efforts, so far, in the high school, college or minor league sections.
3.) Would there be responses that would belittle, intimidate or ridicule me for asking the question.
I got my answers. Thanks.

Do these sound like legitimate reasons for the original question? Reasons #1 & #2 are obviously **** to make himself look better and cover for the real reason he started this up. As justbaseball put it, he and infielddad view this thread as bragging/promoting and infielddad wanted to pose the question so we would have to defend why we posted pictures, then he and others can come in with righteous indignation to set us straight. As I mentioned in a previous post, I don't see bragging/promoting in this thread. I don't see parents telling us how far their sons hit the ball or how fast they throw at age 10, or how many all-star teams they've made....etc.

Unfortunately, this happens on boards all over the web. For HSBBW, those who have been around the longest and posted thousands of times, or whose sons have "made it" get to tell the rest of us how it's done.

Here's the main point of my post...I get annoyed by what I perceive to be bragging as well. If you look at the "Pitching" section of this site you'll see a dad who posted video of his 9 yr old son pitching and he asked for advice on his mechanics. Obviously, what he really wants is to hear a bunch of people he doesn't know tell him how great his son is. I think that's pretty silly personally, so what do I (as a mature adult) do about it? I do nothing. I ignore it and move on to something else. What does TPM do? She posts a not-so-subtle chastisement of the guy telling him... "Your son is 9, everything is going to change. Relax and enjoy, he's got a long way to go." I found that more annoying than the guy posting the video. What compels people like TPM, infielddad, and to a lesser extent Justbaseball to interject themselves and their perceived superiority into threads that they are not even a part of? There are certainly jerks that deserve to get slammed on this site. But I don't see it being deserved by the original posters in this thread.

Jon

I guess we aren't going to see anymore pics !!

There isn't a poster on this site that isn't proud of their kids and I applaud that. Some are off the mark but who cares. There are worse things.

quote:

Originally posted by willj1967:
Here's the main point of my post...I get annoyed by what I perceive to be bragging as well. If you look at the "Pitching" section of this site you'll see a dad who posted video of his 9 yr old son pitching and he asked for advice on his mechanics. Obviously, what he really wants is to hear a bunch of people he doesn't know tell him how great his son is. I think that's pretty silly personally, so what do I (as a mature adult) do about it? I do nothing. I ignore it and move on to something else. What does TPM do? She posts a not-so-subtle chastisement of the guy telling him... "Your son is 9, everything is going to change. Relax and enjoy, he's got a long way to go." I found that more annoying than the guy posting the video. What compels people like TPM, infielddad, and to a lesser extent Justbaseball to interject themselves and their perceived superiority into threads that they are not even a part of? There are certainly jerks that deserve to get slammed on this site. But I don't see it being deserved by the original posters in this thread.

Jon

I am going to reply since you mentioned my post.

I did not find anything wrong in this thread, I enjoyed it.

I do find it ridiculous that a parent posted a video of 9 year old just beginning to pitch asking for advice? Do you have a pitcher?
I gave him advice, he has a lot to learn and enjoy. So do you.

I have always said to enjoy those moments, time flies so fast. I find less and less parents these days enjoying those moments. They already have the pitching or hitting instuctors lined up, signed up for travel teams. They are so enamored with what every other kid at 9,10,11 are doing also. If you take offense to that, well, that's my opinion, that's how I see it. If you take that as a superior attitude, you'll understand someday.

And in the end, you will find, these young pitchers to develop arm problems before HS. I have a REALLY, REALLY big problem with that. I have been posting here for years, in the past year, I am totally amazed at the amount of injuries parents are reporting (of young players), I have never seen that before. Why? Because parents are so caught up in what's happening in youth sports and forget what it's all about, it's recreational, not playing for a spot on a major leaguers.

I never asked anyone when my son was 9,10,11 if he had future potential. Who cared?

I wish I had known back then though what I do now, mine most likely wouldn't be pitching at 9 yet. I think that is what gets me the most, many parents of young players just are clueless. JMO.

BTW, if I really wanted to post what I was thinking, the above would have been it!


Maybe Justbaseball is right, maybe I too have "outgrown" this site.

Hey, Jon. Go to Unusually Unusual, watch that taser video I just posted, pretend it's someone you don't like, and you'll feel a lot better!

I think I'm going to change my tag line to "Don't tase me, bro!" Cracks me up every time.

Seriously, though. As far as "promoting" players as opposed to showing off our boys' photos, I think there is a big difference. I know personally only two people on this site. One is a relative of one of my son's teammates, and one is a highly respected former coach, current scout and JUCO coach, who will go to bat for my son when the time comes. He, and the others who actually see my son play in real life, are the ones who count as far as his future. I enjoy the advice and the discourse on this site, but to me that's all it is. Sometimes we take ourselves and others a little too seriously. Everyone here knows that when a parent talks about his or her player, you have to take it with a grain of salt. It's as true on this site as it is in the stands at your player's next game. So I don't think there's any validity to the promotion thing. If I am wrong and there are examples of actual promotion and the results of it, then I am very interested to know. I'm as guilty of bragging as anyone, and I guarantee that I'll do it again! And it will be annoying. But all it means is that I'm proud of him. That's all. It's not going to affect in any way the path my son takes in the real world. It's about what he does in the classroom and on the field, not what the folks on this site think about what I said wrote what he did. And vice versa for other folks' players.

Anyway, as we here at UF found out a few days ago, free speech can be annoying! Whether stated abrasively or gently and respectfully. And sometimes it sure would be nice to have a taser! Only you hope the guy who disagrees with you doesn't have one! But, as BBfam says - Carry on! It's a free country, after all.

In one hour, I'm going to pour myself and adult beverage. TGIF!

There have been many good posts in this thread and posting pictures here is not improperly promoting or bragging imho even though I can see how it might be interpreted that way.

re: free speech. This site is not about the right to practice free speech even though for the most part, free speech is practiced here.

The site is about a) helping kids make their high school team and b) then finding a place to play in college someday. Hopefully people here are willing to contribute to that effort (helping others). Along the way, there are many significiant social interactions formed and that is also good as demonstrated by the nice, friendly relationships in this thread.

Even though parents are proud of their kids, the site is not about bragging or other forms of self-promotion (e.g., posts designed/disguised to draw attention to some player). Clearly, this type of stuff goes on all the time in many forums and we probably got side-tracked by the issue in this forum.

Obviously, there are exceptions such as a player announcing they have finally made varsity after much hard work or a parent announcing their sons have signed at a college somewhere. Other than that, I am not convinced how bragging, hyping, posting stats, announcing some ranking, listing physical tools, etc. is designed to help anyone other than the person doing such promotion. If that is one's main purpose for being here, then this site may not be the right one for you.

Will (Jon) - I respect your thoughts on this. Really I do. Buried in your post are some good points.

quote:

What compels people like TPM, infielddad, and to a lesser extent Justbaseball to interject themselves and their perceived superiority into threads that they are not even a part of? There are certainly jerks that deserve to get slammed on this site. But I don't see it being deserved by the original posters in this thread.