I understand the other side. Warmer temperatures doesn't make the pre-pubescent problems of the youth player go away. No one who is an expert in the game recommends 100 games a year at this age. I keep saying it... Just show me one study that recommends this .. pitching or not.

The only people I have found that feel this is OK are those parents who happen to be currently involved and those coaches who coach. There's a time and place for TB and it isn't at 8U.

Just my opinion...

Jake,
Our kids pitch 10-12 partial games over a 9 month period. Much less stress than most pitchers. We do bullpens every week. We long toss every practice and most pregames. We don't play in June, July, or August. Most of the kids miss a month or so due to other sports. The amount of games is a lot, but the wear and tear on the arms in less that teams that play 45 games over 3 months and only have 5 pitchers. Most teams have kids that pitch back to back days. We don't. I feel this is much worse than our extended season. Our goals have always been stay healthy, learn the game, and have fun.

I am new to the pre-HS boards as I have been a long-time poster in the Texas forum and others while coaching 18U boys. I could go on and on about the different styles/types of youth baseball that I have seen successful HS kids come from.

One thing that is certain though....the predominantly best path to success has been one of varied coaching throughout the player's career and parents paying close attention to abuse or overuse of their player.

I know that many are passionate about when to start a player, how to do this or not to do that but really....some on here seem to be far too judgemental of other's choices. The best path for one is not always the best path for others. I am hardly one to stress being a pascifist but please consider that there are many different ways of having your son play baseball and that THERE IS NO EXPERT when it comes to this. Trial and error.....and be open to the idea that your way is not necessarily the only way.

It seems to me that the vast majority of people on these boards are people who have sons that are successful in baseball. The ones who are not successful....well, they have moved on to something else and have no need to post here. Be tolerant.

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I am hardly one to stress being a pascifist but please consider that there are many different ways of having your son play baseball and that THERE IS NO EXPERT when it comes to this. Trial and error.....and be open to the idea that your way is not necessarily the only way.

While I understand the spirit of your message I have to disagree with the above. There ARE experts in the topics of child psychology and physical development especially as it aplies to athletic development. Many fathers choose not to listen...

There are no "experts" in child psychology as far as I am concerned

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Originally posted by TRhit:
There are no "experts" in child psychology as far as I am concerned

...especially those without educations in child psychology.

IMO there are no experts at trying to tell a parent the best way to guide their son through youth baseball.

This is not some random thought but rather based upon many years of experience. There are lots of people with degrees that claim to know what is best for others but when it comes to BASEBALL their degree is not worth the paper it is written on.

Now how to stop bedwetting or biting other children....that's another story.

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Originally posted by RETIRED GM:
IMO there are no experts at trying to tell a parent the best way to guide their son through youth baseball.

This is not some random thought but rather based upon many years of experience. There are lots of people with degrees that claim to know what is best for others but when it comes to BASEBALL their degree is not worth the paper it is written on.

Now how to stop bedwetting or biting other children....that's another story.

I think we will have to agree to disagree here. Baseball like any athletic endeavor is based on numbers. Tracking those numbers can speak volumes and help us eliminate what we do not understand and is typically catergorized as "unique." If we were to evaluate those who made it and those who did not we would quickly find some very common threads. Speed, throwing speed, distance, hitting average, hitting distance, errors, home runs, etc... are all indicators that allow us to identify potential.

I don't see each child as unique as it applies to baseball talent, I see each child as capable of a specific level of expertise. The problem with this is many parents DO see their child as unique and tend to view their talent through jaundice eyes. How he throws, runs, hits and catches is constantly being meassured. When young the measurment is relative. As he ages it will become more scientific. This is not because these measurements don't exist they just don't apply. Little Johnny may be uniques as a person, but what he does on a field is not.

Then back to the original idea of travel ball. I bet you will not find any or few players drafted in the past 2 years that did not play tournament ball in some form. That would be your experts. When they were 7 or 8 there were no tournament teams. How will the standards be 10 years from now.
Expert opinion is just that, opinion. There is no data to back up your theory on little guys not pitching, just opinions.

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there are no experts at trying to tell a parent the best way to guide their son through youth baseball

There may not be a best way, but there are definitely some incorrect ways. Don't forget for every athlete raised like Tiger Woods there are hundreds times more Todd Marinovichs.

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Originally posted by Jeff Connell:
There is no data to back up your theory on little guys not pitching, just opinions.

How you can equate the skill levels of little kids with becoming a professional athlete? Yes, most professional athletes were good players when they were little. It's due to their innate physical and athletic ability. On the other hand many successful preteen athletes will not even become quality high school athletes.

It's important not to overload preteeners physically and emotionally. The physical aspect is a no brainer. It's all about growth plates and attached tendons, muscles and ligaments. The emotonal aspect is harder to measure. But I've seen plenty of Mr. Piersall's in youth sports acting like it's life and death.

The concept of preteen travel is another discussion. What is travel? My son played on a community based travel team in 9U and 10U. I called it advanced rec. They played teams from other nearby communities. The team played twenty-eight games each summer to provide additional ball to the 16-18 games the rec league provided.

When my son was 11U he would play some USSSA when invited. His focus was LL. The all-star team played into August. We had our own 12U USSSA team when he was twelve in LL. The team was secondary to LL. Once again the all-star team played into August. We were setting up the travel team to be a focus team for 13U and beyond. The best part of LL all-stars was how much the kids practiced from mid June into August. It was the best training in terms of reps my son could have. Travel teams tend to play a lot and not practice enough.

My son played about 45-50 games between rec and travel from age nine twelve. At 13U the travel team played 50 games. His middle school played 12 for a total of 62.

Where I believe it got out of hand was last year with fall ball the total from April to October got to 90. Playing 90 games wasn't necessary. The good part of fall ball was playing up one or two years in tournaments to challenge the kids as they headed into high school. But we didn't need to play thirty games games in the fall.

What bothers me about the 8U travel teams is not so much the coaches but the parents mentality concerning it.
A couple of years back there was a gentlemen advertising just as Jeff Connell has for players 6 to 8. To find out more about it I called him, he had supplied a number, to get more info telling him I had a great young 6 year old who could easily play up. After going thru the monetary aspects he offered this to me " if you want you can fly him down to us and he can stay with one of our families for the summer season" ---YEAH RIGHT I let a 6 year old do that with people I do not even have an inking about---BUT PARENTS APPARENTLY DO IT !!!!


Jeff--and you wonder why I think the way I do !

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if you want you can fly him down to us and he can stay with one of our families for the summer season" ---YEAH RIGHT I let a 6 year old do that with people I do not even have an inking about---BUT PARENTS APPARENTLY DO IT !!!!

LOL ... And to think I have reservations about my son playing for a travel team and living with some people I casually know at age sixteen.

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YEAH RIGHT I let a 6 year old do that with people I do not even have an inking about---BUT PARENTS APPARENTLY DO IT !!!!
Jeff--and you wonder why I think the way I do !

There was a guy in Texas advertising for U4... I call it Diaper Ball. Travel is not necessary u13.

One of my favorite movie quotes of all time:

Ray Kinsella: Are you Moonlight Graham?
Dr. Archibald "Moonlight" Graham: No one's called me Moonlight Graham in fifty years.

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Dr. Archibald "Moonlight" Graham: Well, you know I... I never got to bat in the major leagues. I would have liked to have had that chance. Just once. To stare down a big league pitcher. To stare him down, and just as he goes into his windup, wink. Make him think you know something he doesn't. That's what I wish for. Chance to squint at a sky so blue that it hurts your eyes just to look at it. To feel the tingling in your arm as you connect with the ball. To run the bases - stretch a double into a triple, and flop face-first into third, wrap your arms around the bag. That's my wish, Ray Kinsella. That's my wish. And is there enough magic out there in the moonlight to make this dream come true?

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Ray Kinsella: Fifty years ago, for five minutes you came within... y-you came this close. It would KILL some men to get so close to their dream and not touch it. God, they'd consider it a tragedy.
Dr. Archibald "Moonlight" Graham: Son, if I'd only gotten to be a doctor for five minutes... now that would have been a tragedy.

Hope you know where i'm going with this analogy.

With that being said, does anyone know where I can pick up a third grade Pre-Calculus book for my son? Gotta get him ready for Princeton

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by Jeff: I bet you will not find any or few players drafted in the past 2 years that did not play tournament ball in some form.

probably a good observation, but what conclusion do the experts reach??

a) travel ball gives players a better chance to reach a higher level

b) players already destined to play at a "high level" play travel ball

those are 2 very opposite conclusions supported by your obsevation



you could make a case for "a", but "b" is more like reality

Some food for thought....

We had t-ball practice today and there was a coach of another t-ball team playing toss with his son nearby. During conversation with one of our coaches he mentioned that they have had tryouts for their also-6U team and have had to cut about a dozen kids.

Wonder how a parent explains to their 6 year-old that he wasn't good enough to make a t-ball team?

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Wonder how a parent explains to their 6 year-old that he wasn't good enough to make a t-ball team?

T-Ball and tryouts should not be used in the same sentence.

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Originally posted by JakeP:
T-Ball and tryouts should not be used in the same sentence.

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Originally posted by JakeP:

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Wonder how a parent explains to their 6 year-old that he wasn't good enough to make a t-ball team?

T-Ball and tryouts should not be used in the same sentence.

It's probably USSSA 6U Majors Tee Ball. In the summer are the USSSA 6U Tee Ball National Championships.

(typed the whole thing without laughing)