I love this website--lots of excellent perspective and information!

I'm looking for help sifting the fact from the fiction about the need for travel ball in younger age players.

I have a nine year old who got drafted to a LL majors team last spring. He switch hits well, has a good arm (throws left), rarely strikes out and rarely makes fielding errors. He also played some travel ball, though we felt year round throwing was too much and that the money was better spent learning solid fundamentals. Based on his current skills, we think we made the right choice.

At the same time, we're getting conflicting opinions about the need for travel ball. Some people say you have to play at the early ages to be able to get to the next level and others say work on his academics and fundamentals instead. I have a very motivated and goal oriented son and I would just like to make sure we're not skipping something important if he doesn't play travel ball. Our plan had been to return to travel ball after LL is over.

Has anyone been through this? If so, I'd appreciate knowing your experience.

Thanks.

Yes, probably most people on this site have been through this and will put their 2 cents in. I sent you a private message.

AAM,

This is my opinion from my experience. I currently have a 14 yr old son who played JV ball as a freshman. In my honest opinion I believe 9 yr olds are way too young to play travel ball. The game should be fun and hanging out with friends. 11-12 year olds is definitely a good start with travel. But then again at this age Little League and Pony All stars run through late july and sometimes depending how far they go well into August. Factor in travell ball into winter and fall and that is alot of ball. Some kids can't get enough of it but most are forced to play when they really shouldn't. The majority of kids in my area, SOCAL, have played some form of Travel Ball when they were 12,13,14 yrs old. They are better hitters and have better instincts and they usually shine during tryouts. This doesn't mean the RECBall kids aren't any good. To me the experience with Travel have made them sharper and slightyly better.

Fast forward to today. At my son's school between the JV and Freshman teams I'd say 80 percent of the players played elite Stars or some form of Travel. IT is the nature of the beast around these parts. I look back at what my son went through and he didn't have any regrets , he loves the game and he likes his current position on the team.

To answer your question I would have to do so in two parts. Is the rec ball not so satisfactory to your son? Is he head and shoulders better than everyone and does he like challenges? Is he having fun? I think only you and your son can answer these questions. 9-10 is too young and 11-12 is the perfect time to start. Good luck!

Why can't travel baseball be fun as well? Why is every argument/discussion between rec league and travel ball is about being fun vs. being competitive?

Here is my experience...my guys started at 8, playing up against 9u. Why? Because I had 10-11 kids who played rec ball and were afraid to throw the ball to 1B in fear of hurting the kid. How is THAT fun? We surrounded our kids with other kids who wanted to play the game. We have never recruited nor have we replaced a kid with a bigger and better kid. Most of our kids have been together since 9U. We lose 1-2 each year from moving out of the area and have only had 1 kid leave for another team.

Ask our kids today (now 13U) and they will tell you they have had a blast with each other. They are best of friends and hang out off the field. We have never had a squabble about anything. No parent issues...nothing. To me, THAT is fun.

While I understand we are not the norm, travel baseball can be fun.

Our experience is that travel/select ball, whatever you want to call it, will improve the chances of moving up through the ranks for the simple reason that the competition is better.

Skills development through practice and lessons has a place, but at some point, the player has to experience game situations where those skills are challenged.

We were fortunate that we lived in an area where more competitive leagues were available and travel didn't play into it that much. We did some travel tournaments...which was a lot of fun with lots of great memories...but that was once or twice a year.

I remember my son saying once about a friend of his who made the HS freshman team but moved no further: it's too bad he didn't move out of LL into select cause he could have been a good player if he had a chance to play better teams.

Agreed 11-12 is a good time to find a more competitive place to play.

Welcome to the HSBBW. Your first post touches on a number of very important questions about youth baseball that everyone needs to ask.
1. Why does you son play baseball?
2. Why do you want your son to play baseball?
3. What would your son sacrifice to play baseball?
4. What would you sacrifice so that he could play?
5. Who has the most input as to where he plays? You or your son?

All of these question factor in as to what age and what level a player should play. As you can guess there is no standard answer. Redbird and baseballbum both bring up a very important word --- FUN. Is it fun to play recreational ball or does it border on boredom for your son? Is the highest level of competitive baseball fun or is it overwhelming? I saw my son at age 11 almost lose the desire to play baseball until I put him on a 13u travel team. That challenge renewed his interest and put fun back into his game. I can remember when he was 12 and having to drive him 180 miles round trip every day so he could make practice on the best team around. Inside I felt as if I was “pushing” too much until he looked at me during one of those long drives and thanked me for the sacrifices I was making just so he could play the most competitive baseball around. As redbird suggest the most competitive level can be the most rewarding and therefore the most fun for some players. I will also admit that most players at the recreational level are having fun and are playing where they want to play. I remember a rec coach calling me and begging me to bring my son back to his team. After I said NO that we would focus our efforts to travel ball he immediately criticized me for destroying his recreational program and pushing my son after some unobtainable dream. His son quit playing five years ago --- mine is still playing. His son had fun playing baseball as did my son. Different strokes for different folks.
Fungo

Here is something to consider. Is your son's LL team teaching the correct fundamentals and do you see him progressing. The problem I have seen since my recent move to Florida from West Tennessee, is the Florida LL programs are very good compared to a nonexistant LL experience back in Tennessee as I am sure Fungo can and will attest to. That is why he drove to Memphis for competitve practices for his son at 12 years old. Any player with decent skills plays at least AA or higher back in TN. This is probably the norm where LL is not played. I would guess being in California, you probably are seeing a decent level of baseball from the LL teams. There is no doubt my current 12 year old son needed the experience of playing competitve baseball prior to his move to Florida where he has continued to play at the competitve level.

My belief is players should be playing at the most competitive level available for them. As long as it is what your son wants to do and not what you want him to do. I've seen parents bang on the fence scream at their kids. Just unbelievable things and I know of one kid that this year said enough is enough and did not even try out for his high school team.
Just because it is competitve does not mean it isn't supposed to be fun too. Find a team, a coach that truly teaches fundamentals and proper mechanics and does not try to over use any pitchers. Then stay with one team, I see so many kids that move year to year for one reason or another and it never seems to work.
My son switched once, when he did I made him tell his coach he wasn't coming back, I didn't protect him, if he wanted to leave he had to do it. Imagine a 10 year old explaining to a coach he didn't want to play there anymore. Tough situation but he realized how important it was for him to handle it. He played with that one coach from 7-10 and another from 11-14. Him and I both see these coaches now and again and we are all still friends. My son this past year played a game against another HS and after the game 3 of the kids that had played together in the past took a picture together. It is now in a frame on my sons desk. Quite a memory.
His last coach has told him anything I can do to help you let me know and I will be there, once a part of our family always a part of our family. Just find the right one. We did, we were lucky 2x, ask opinions from parents it's not about the best team but playing time, learning and being competitve against so called all star teams.

12 and up YES - otherwise just play alot of baseball. Problem is that in our area even with Allstars you might play 20 games and practices are limited to say the least - just not enough.

quote:

Florida LL programs are very good compared to a nonexistant LL experience back in Tennessee as I am sure Fungo can and will attest to.

Good point! I agree the area you live in does have a bearing on the quality of baseball played.

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to answer my question. You given me lots of food for thought. I realize we made need to look at another travel ball team to be objective and it sounds like we can just keep the focus on fun awhile longer. I don't mean to dis the dad who said travel ball and fun can go together--we just didn't have that experience (though the team was run by a for profit baseball business and I should probably look for another type of club.)

Thanks for all the input.

AAM,
We are facing this decision as well. It's a tough decision for us becaus the little league my son plays in is a good one. It's run by a top notch board and we have great facilities. If that wasn't the case then our decision would be easy. I have also heard absolute horror stories about some of our local travel teams, as well as some great things. I guess some of your decision has to depend on the programs available to you.

There are a lot of great perspectives here and I cant believe how similar our experiences have been to Fungo's. Last year we played AAA travel in another centre that was a 90 minute round trip for home field games and 3 hours for our longest away game. Similarly, our local House League program really castigated us for depleting the local program.

My now 11YO son played AA travel this year and I was an Assistant Coach on that team. Further, our score-keeping was electronic and we had the prior season's data. We had three players with AAA travel experience, four with AA travel experience that played in a AAA loop and the rest had come out of House League. The team worked hard in the spring and we convinced the parents to set up a program with a local baseball training facility. We went to batting cages before every home game. Our kids were well-versed in hitting fundamentals (although some would go back to old methods). Our coaches became well versed in fundamentals and we re-inforced as much as possible. We had a tremendous regular season as a result (22-2-0 and averaged 16 runs per game).

Our season runs from the beginning of May until the end of August (54 games with reg. season, tournaments, and exhibitions). Early in the season, we began challenging AAA teams to exhibitions and added two AAA tournaments to our list. We also had a late addition to our team of a player who was a superstar in House League.

The big thing I noticed as a coach and the stats bear this out - pitching and defence are a whole lot better at the more competitive levels - so much so that it changes the game. The kids who had played AAA before were relatively transparent (at mid-season my son's batting average against AA was 580 and against AAA was 630). Against slower pitching, the House League kids who had hung onto their loopy swings were getting struck out and if they did hit the ball it was a late fly to a fielder who was going to catch it 90% of the time. The averages here were more like 450 going down to 150. Another factor is the lower likelihood of easy walks due to greater control with the pitchers. Some kids chose to make the transition with their swing, some didnt.

The point I am trying to make here is that at less competitive levels, the need to work is masked. For example, if you kid has a 750 batting average, how much do you work on the swing? When my kid went to travel from House League his 750 dropped to 300. He then started to work on the swing.

On defense, the abilities of the players around you start to make a difference. For example, run-downs become an automatic out and double plays occur more frequently in travel ball.

Baseball is a cumulative experience game. The commitment to the higher number of games in my opinion is worth the price. It provides enough time to work on things. During those 54 games my son was able to pitch just under 80 inings. This provided a lot of working experience to throw the change-up he had worked on in the spring. He mixed this with two seam and four-seam. It was his first year of having pitches called to location. He K'd just over half of the batters he faced. I cant imagine doing this on a twenty game season.

Still, there are numerous reasons to consider playing in a House League or AA environment. One may be that your kid is not at the higher level. If this were to be the case, he might not get the playing time and not necessarily in the best positions. He might be frustrated at the plate and have less baserunning opportunities. Compare this to playing all of the time and having the luxury of working on new skills. The big factor is to find a great coach who has the energy to put into player development.

I think it would be hard to make it through Try Outs at AAA at 12 or 13 YO with 3 years of House League behind you and no specific offline work. Remember, you have to project that you can be better than the current team members - not as good! If you are one of the most atheletic kids in town - maybe... There has to be an average 6 to 7 mph hour difference in pitching speed and it's not something you can make up for on an "iron mike" a few nights before Try Outs.

Parents get more focussed in Travel ball. It's a lot more time and a lot more money. And... it's their kid. There are a lot more opportunities for conflict and pressure to arise. The dymanics of the group and the ability of the coaches to maintain control can make or break the experience. It cant be the same as House League - it's not set up that way. It can be good though if everybody wants to make an effort.

For us, it's worth it in the end.

Try Outs for 2008 begin tomorrow!

Cheers,

D

Find the best qualified teaching coach you can with a developmental as a priority. In your area, this may of may not be a travel team.

If you do not have a lot of baseball experience, become a student of the game because regardless of where your son plays, the one-on-one work you do with him will make the most difference in his abilities by HS age.

My son started playing baseball at 4 and has been playing select since he was 7. He is currently 13 and plays on a very competitive team. We found at 7 he was one of the most talented players in the Pony district that we were in. He was bored and extremely frustrated. He could not throw the ball full speed in the infield for fear of hurting the kid on the bag. He had also sent a child to the hospital with a broken jaw during one of his at bats. He was batting almost 1000, and he was to the point of not wanting to play any longer.

We put him on a select team with kids of his caliber and we drove 2 hours roundtrip to practice and back. He began to enjoy baseball again. He has won 2 National Titles and has had the time of his life. He also takes hitting and catching lessons. He has been taking hitting lessons since 7, to make sure that his mechanics are correct and he started taking catching lessons 2 years ago for the same reason. He averages a .700 batting average every season.

It was one of the best decisions that we ever made. I feel we have made a good investment in his future.

Now as far as time spent, we have only one child. I do not know how families with more than one child do it.

Now as far as saying what age to is too young. I believe that is an individual decision. I do not believe there is one right age to step out of the local association and into a more competitive environment.

Right you are, Roll-it! I had to learn how to pitch BP! My coworkers always ask me why I am limping on Monday mornings.

You're right too, Notlongtilicantcatchim. Playing up is the way to go. If the young man is a stud in your house league (our rec ball), he may be a legend in his own mind (or that of his parents). Good luck tomorrow!

quote:

Now as far as time spent, we have only one child. I do not know how families with more than one child do it.

Me either... I only have one also, and am happy to have made the investment. But with more, we'd be in the poorhouse.

quote:

Originally posted by 2Bmom
Me either... I only have one also, and am happy to have made the investment. But with more, we'd be in the poorhouse.

I was talking about time, but yeah I agree with you. We have a friend that has 2 boys playing select and 1 in showcase. Financially I do not know how they do it.

Between the season, 2 world series a year, lessons, gas, hotels, a new bat every year, new catching gear every year and miscellaneous other expenses I can only afford one.

But he has his dreams and his goals, and it is my pleasure to help him achieve them.

I also have a lot of respect for you. Pitching BP, I'd be a little scared, my reflexes are quite what they once were.

You raise a good point about the time and costs. My son is an only child as well. It would be tough to meet the needs of three kids at this level.

When our regular season ended last year we were in Baltimore in September (drove); Fall Ball in Buffalo in November (drove); Gaineville, FL (flew)in December; and Del Ray, FL in March (drove) - all for baseball. Between February and May we had pitching lessons, catching lessons and hitting lessons (probably close to 20 in all) in addition to our team work-outs. All this while we were doing Travel basketball and squash tournaments. We cut back to about ten lessons over the summer - mainly hitting. As well, we did two baseball camps in August. In addition to new catchers's gear (he doesnt catch a lot but, at 5'5"/160 pounds he's bigger than most kids) we had to replace an Omaha he busted mid-summer.

I am either building or buying an L-screen for hitting next season. Most of the hitting work this summer has been focussed on line-drives up the middle and he's getting too successful lately... I am past being able to get out of the way on a good shot anymore. I managed to avoid getting my shin shattered by about 2 inches three weeks ago - moved fast enough to take it in the calf and couldnt move well for a couple of days... I figure I bought the Catcher's equipment for me, as I wont be able to catch his pitching without gear by the end of next season.

All in all, baseball has provided us with some great experiences together. We were exhausted at the end of this season. You know what though... can't wait for Hitting lessons tonight and Try Outs tomorrow...


Cheers,


D